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What do you think?

PATB

Well-known member
I cannot speak for other angus breeders but my birth weight has drop the last several years on average and wean wights have gone up. The present home raised sire comes from a family line that traditionally has smaller calves that grow extremely well. We still get the occaisonal calf that breaks the 100 lb mark. We have several cow families that have 90 to 110 pound calves on a regular basis with no problems. Every calf is weighed using a scale that is graduated in 2 pound increments. I try to stay in the middle of the road for birth weight. Why take the risk of bringing a new challenge health wise with bulls every year?
 

Big Swede

Well-known member
I don't care what your birth weights are. If they work for you PATB that's fine because it's your operation. As long as you are reporting accurately I commend you. The beef I have is the guys that don't report accurately. EPD's are based on all that information and they can be skewed by a few that fudge on some numbers. Kind of like the guys that creep fed for 4 months and brag about their 900# 205 day weights. :shock: Whatever!
 

per

Well-known member
Big Swede said:
I don't care what your birth weights are. If they work for you PATB that's fine because it's your operation. As long as you are reporting accurately I commend you. The beef I have is the guys that don't report accurately. EPD's are based on all that information and they can be skewed by a few that fudge on some numbers. Kind of like the guys that creep fed for 4 months and brag about their 900# 205 day weights. :shock: Whatever!

:clap: :clap:
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Big Swede said:
I don't care what your birth weights are. If they work for you PATB that's fine because it's your operation. As long as you are reporting accurately I commend you. The beef I have is the guys that don't report accurately. EPD's are based on all that information and they can be skewed by a few that fudge on some numbers. Kind of like the guys that creep fed for 4 months and brag about their 900# 205 day weights. :shock: Whatever!

I agree- both with PATB and Big Swede...I know locally as far as selling angus bulls I've seen and been told by local breeders its getting tougher and toughter to sell the heavy BW bulls...Anything over 90 starts raising questions- and the few over 100 lbs could be the best bull on earth, but has a tough time getting bidders sometimes..

I think much of this is to more folks going to lower input practices, pasture calving, and the fact the average age of most ranchers is near 60- they just don't want to have to be bothered with the problems that sometimes come with big calves...
I know I prefer a 70 lb live calf over a 100 lb dead one...
 

Big Swede

Well-known member
Dittos Old Timer!! Not sure why I got so riled up about this issue. Maybe the fact that it's getting to be long winter and also working on taxes that's got me so fired up. :x :wink:
 

PATB

Well-known member
I agree with you I do not like breeders who cook the numbers. I used a bull 10 years ago that the numbers were not reported right. He went from a negative bw to plus 4 something. I think I had to assist every calf by him. If you report the numbers make sure they are actual numbers not something that was dream up over morning coffee. :lol:
 

Hereford76

Well-known member
Here are two quotes that caught my attention cause it has crossed my mind lots

Big Swede said:
How many people believe the birthweights that are advertised by their seedstock producer? If they have been pushing growth in their programs and they don't list any 100# plus calves at birth they lose all credibility in my eyes. What else are they not telling you? I really appreciate producers that put the information no matter what it is in the book. 110# at birth and 500# at weaning? So be it, at least you can tell they are telling the truth.

I have to say that when I first moved calving from January 1st and offering yearling bulls in March to April and May calving and offering coming two's I had a hard time printing their data. The biggest thing was their data after they were weaned and their carcass data. It doesn't look the same on the surface if you measure that stuff and report it like it should be done. But now I wouldn't do it any other way - it takes the BS out and you can truly make the right decisions and make progress... cause the other way is a game you will chase to no end and for what.


Northern Rancher said:
Those outfits then have to go back so hard calving ease wise they lose all the gains they supposedly made.

In my mind it is pretty easy to tell who is making up numbers and who does it right. The last few years it has been pretty interesting to watch a few outfits I've never believed atleast for bw use what they are using to try and get their bw in check. Just doing the little things like actually going to their ranch to see how things are done is eye opening. There are a million ways to manipulate the numbers and its a game I just don't understand. I call them fly by night breeders - what are they really gaining by manipulating the numbers. How do you know what you really have or look someone in the eye and be able to speak the least bit of truth when they have no idea what the actual picture is. But at the same time I have been able to learn just as much from those guys. Usually they all have a definite top, a decent group in the middle, and an obvious bottom for every trait in the book. I go to try and learn what differentiates those three groups. To me everything you guys have touched on in this thread begs the question - is there ever going to be a time when the genetic seedstock supplier shifts more to real world settings... ie - away from big money, no irrigated corn fields in the background,
 

hillsdown

Well-known member
Big Swede I agree that it does happen, unfortunately it does. I have been duped a couple of times when I first moved to beef. But it goes on in every industry, not just agriculture.

I am a firm believer in karma.. :wink:
 

cowhunter

Well-known member
I've raised hog and cattle dogs for 22 years. Line and inbred and for 12 years and never bred to anything on the outside. now I know dogs are bred for many different trates other than cattle. But do the problems u have with line and inbreedin dogs that seem to come up, happen when u line and inbred cattle? I have 3 texas longhorn cows do to calf, by a reg. Cracker bull. I was thinkin of keepin the bulls calfs, if they looked good to try and get some horn a little faster, in a couple of years. They would be breedin there half sisters. Team ropein cattle need to be around 300 to 350. With at least 6 inches of horn. The weights not the problem. But sometimes the horn is.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I have not read this whole thread but some times bulls get a good and bad end of the stick. If a heifer calves 10 days early which is common you have a light weight calf. The bull gets good epds.

Then a cow goes past term and you end up with a calf 25 to 30 pounds heavier than it would have been. The bull gets trashed. epds are no better than the actual info behind them and definitely no better than the person wanting to sell calves or semen.
 

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