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What some canadians think about health care.

Big Muddy rancher

Well-known member
Tommy Douglas: Not Dead Enough

The incoming president...

... of the Canadian Medical Association says the health-care system is imploding and doctors have to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says the care being provided to patients right now is less than optimal.

Doig says doctors, who are gathering in Saskatoon for their annual meeting, recognize that changes must be made.

The pitch for change starts today with a presentation from Dr. Robert Ouellet, the association's outgoing president.

He has called for a patient-centred system.

More from the National Post.

Dr. Doig will be a guest on John Gormley Live this morning, scheduled for 8:30 Saskatchewan time (10:30 Eastern). You can listen live at the link.
Posted by Kate at August 20, 2009 9:52 AM
Comments

Change to the Canadian Medical System? Not if the Nurses Union has anything to say about it.
Posted by: theredsuit at August 20, 2009 10:11 AM


The Canadian health care system has been imploding for 30 years and yet the actual implossion has never taken place.

I wish those to the right of the bench would just move over to the right a little bit more and just fall off the damn thing. Your club of exclusivity is just a figament of your rightard imagination.
Posted by: not stirred enough said at at August 20, 2009 10:14 AM

And don't forget, I know MUCH MORE than any medical doctor so I AM the authority on this issue. I've read Alinsky and Marx and the Toronto Star. So, so, ....why don't you all just, just SHUT UP.
Posted by: not stirred enough at August 20, 2009 10:20 AM

Heard something interesting this morning. A specialist with waiting times of about six months changed the way he sees patients and his referral system independently. His waiting time dropped to about six weeks. In other words he got a whole lot more efficient.
Posted by: speedy at August 20, 2009 10:25 AM

Shaken if I fall off the bench I would land on a leftie with his hand out.
Posted by: speedy at August 20, 2009 10:28 AM

....been imploding for 30 years and yet the actual implossion has never taken place...

Nor will it, the gov't will always ensure that there is just enough public funds (taxed/borrowed/printed) available to maintain a balance between minimal services and sufficiently pi#$ed off public (that might vote them out).

Plus, with the many tiers of public health care in Canada, it is not hard to provide supportive voter groups with better services at the cost of the lower tiers.

The hypocrisy of socialism in Canada (well, pretty much everywhere) is its defining trademark.
But, this point is lost on socialists.

PS - I don't spend my time bench sitting, kinda prefer to get off my ass and actually get something done. This point too is lost on socialists.
Posted by: Frenchie77 at August 20, 2009 10:29 AM

We already have a patient-centered system. Those who are patient enough will eventually find a primary care physician. Those who are patient enough might actually get the diagnostic tests they need before they expire. Those patient enough to wait for their surgery might actually become capable productive resources again. Yes, we have a system centered for the patient.

Meanwhile, how are those health-ministry fully indexed civil service pensions? Any success with their rampant obesity? Any cures for the bureaucratic bloating?

There is no counterpressure on government bureaucracies - an analog to competitive pressure in private industry.

To think that any bureaucratic panel can find a solution to bureaucratic inefficiency is beyond ironic.

Competition - like garlic to lefties - must be avoided at all costs.
Posted by: shaken at August 20, 2009 10:30 AM

I have always said the first and highest priority of any bureaucracy is expansion. All else is secondary.

Thus, like shaken, I agree that there is no way, ever, ever, ever that a bureaucracy will work towards its own diminishment, let alone abolishment.
Posted by: Frenchie77 at August 20, 2009 10:36 AM

I agree with 'Frenchie77' and 'shaken' posts. It is the bureaucracy that is killing the system. When they rent buildings for office space, because they ran out of office space in hospital 'it is a problem'.

When has anybody heard of a cut in the bureaucracy system.
Posted by: Merle Underwood at August 20, 2009 10:56 AM

Let's not forget the $600,00 in carbon credits the Fraser Valley Health Authority tranferred to another bureaucracy.

A month later came the inevitable announcement of cuts in surgeries, senior citizen and mental health programs.

Once again, Gaia trumps humanity!
Posted by: set you free at August 20, 2009 11:08 AM

....been imploding for 30 years and yet the actual implossion has never taken place...

If the entire system imploded, do you think the MSM would tell us?

The truth is the implosion does take place, every day, one patient at a time.
The bureaucracy will still endure, even if all the patients are dead.
Posted by: Oz at August 20, 2009 11:12 AM

That must be another one of those right-wing neo-con lies about the healthcare that Layton is talking about.
Posted by: grok at August 20, 2009 11:18 AM

Nothing will come of it. To many bureaucrats have built too many empires to let some uppity doctor ruin things for them.
Posted by: Kevin Lafayette at August 20, 2009 11:26 AM

Yes NSE,

Our system is so great and far from imploding we send our sick people to the US to get treated.

http://freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1319/&template=fullarticle

At least until the obamination wrecks the US system as bad as ours.

The one moral of this story is that if you take the US system, add the Canadian system, and stir, you get the European system you worthless leftards refuse to talk about.
Posted by: Jason at August 20, 2009 11:27 AM

Canadians have great access to healtcare waiting lists, to bad we thought we where paying for healthcare.

I have still never seen a good argument against why I'm not aloud to spend my own money on my own healthcare. If a health region is out of money due to carbon taxing and the operating room is sitting empty one afternoon, why can't I pony up the 20 grand and have my knees done? Sure I may be skipping ahead in line but my skipping got the line moving when it was standing still.

Waiting in a line (or on a list) that isn't moving isn't "fairness" its just plain stupid.

Or say my family doctor only sees 50 people a day, why can't I pay him an extra $ to have him work a little OT for me? I'm not line jumping, as again the line stopped moving @ 4:30pm.
Posted by: duffman at August 20, 2009 12:52 PM

The CMA is nothing more than a mouthpiece for private doctors ongoing campaign to manipulate the end of OHIP ..conveniently freeing them up to make TONS of money off of sick people...all while wrapping themselves in the Canadian flag and claiming to be out for the best interests of Canadians.
HOGWASH!
The present system isn't perfect but MUCH preferable to being bankrupted if you get seriously sick by this greedy group!
Posted by: Dougie at August 20, 2009 12:57 PM

The retarded Leftist not stirred enough said at, said: "The Canadian health care system has been imploding for 30 years and yet the actual implossion has never taken place."

Ok ducky. Setting aside the fact you can't even spell "implosion", please explain to us all how your statement can be plausible in the same universe where the head of the Canadian Medical Association says "We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize..."

She -might- know something you don't, eh?

Question is stirred, you friggin' mindless dork, how bad do you want to let it get? Dumping Grandma on the sidewalk in a snowbank because she's taking up too much space? They do that in some places. You want to live in one of them?
Posted by: The Phantom at August 20, 2009 1:20 PM

Seems like the end of summer, trolls are in full bloom.
Posted by: xiat at August 20, 2009 1:52 PM

What the health care 'debate' needs and will NEVER get is a fully public debate on what type of RATIONING is going to take place. What will be covered and what will not. And why.

Because some form of cost-control is going to occur no matter whether the system is public or private. The absolutely worst form of this control is what we are now getting. Ad hoc, non-planned, and non-responsible.

No matter who 'wins' the political arguments, the facts on the ground will still determine events. And those 'facts' are pretty clear both here and in our neighbour to the South.

Too many demands ----- too little cash.
Posted by: dougf at August 20, 2009 1:56 PM

Remember Ontario's "common sense revolution?

The LIBRANOs screamed because according to them "Harris et al" closed hospital beds.....

Here locally the Health Ministry vetoes that move and 3 of the 4 vice-presidents were dismissed (with their staffs) and they were not missed.

The LIBRANOs styled this as making war on civil servants and school teachers.

Thanks to McSquinty a there are now 4 vice-presidents again and he is taking credit for the new hospital being built with locally raised funds. The new building was necessary because the OBGYN, etc. couldn't be crowded anymore and more office space was needed. It was deemed not practical to use the long vacant 4th floor...the paper pushers must get altitude sickness......
Posted by: sasquatch at August 20, 2009 2:07 PM

It is indeed imploding. As a specialist who trained in the 70's the deterioration is astounding!Neither provincial nor federal governments have planned or funded the massive increase in procedures diagnostic needs aging population and never will. The canadian system tells everyone they can have everything for free but they know they cannot provide it.Now I am retiring early to worry about my own health care.
Posted by: sharger at August 20, 2009 2:24 PM

"Change to the Canadian Medical System? Not if the Nurses Union has anything to say about it."

Sad, but probably true. Whatever happened to the days when employees did as they were instructed so long as their safety wasn't compromised? When did the unions start calling the shots? When did the inmates start running the asylum?
Posted by: biffjr. at August 20, 2009 2:25 PM

so, we have had this ongoing conversation since, ummm, 1967 was it?
Posted by: old white guy at August 20, 2009 3:59 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Saskatchewan's health care costs have grown from 2 to 3 billion in the last 6 years. The boomers are just going to make it worse.

Reform is needed more than more money.
Posted by: MH at August 20, 2009 4:43 PM

I don't trust the rhetoric from any union. The CMA wants the solution to best line their pockets, not to best serve Canadians. They're just CUPE wearing white coats.
Posted by: Brrr at August 20, 2009 5:54 PM

"Change to the Canadian Medical System? Not if the Nurses Union has anything to say about it."

That statement may mean that the Nurses want the status Quo RE: OVERTIME... Does the system discourage additional Nurses? Planned overtime can (>)double Cost

Easy to FIX "Management for Dummies"
Posted by: Slap Shot at August 20, 2009 6:24 PM

Simple to fix .... let people chose who they see and pay as they go.

Then fund the public system only as required by demand.

Sit back and watch things correct themselves.

Of course the usual suspects will by frothing at the mouth ... as usual.
Posted by: OMMAG at August 20, 2009 7:37 PM

From above: (duffman)

Or say my family doctor only sees 50 people a day, why can't I pay him an extra $ to have him work a little OT for me? I'm not line jumping, as again the line stopped moving @ 4:30pm.

How's this for overtime?

Proposal would pay some Alberta doctors up to $518 an hour to treat swine flu

By: THE CANADIAN PRESS EDMONTON - Alberta is considering paying some doctors up to $518 an hour to treat swine flu patients during a serious pandemic. The overnight pay rate is part of a proposal being worked on by the province and the Alberta Medical Association. It would apply to doctors who volunteered to work within the government's flu response plan if the health system were significantly disrupted by H1N1 or if a state of public health emergency was declared.

Posted by: foobert at August 21, 2009 12:13 AM


From Small dead animals
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/012026.html#comments
 

per

Well-known member
Alberta spends fully 40% of their provincial budget on health care. More per capita than most jurisdictions around the world. Acute care is excellent including helicopters to pluck you out and take you to the hospital. That is if it is really really serious. If it is less than immediate peril, then you are waiting. Just talked to a neighbor who's knee is in bad shape. One Year to see the appropriate specialist to get things going again. Two weeks to go south and get the necessary surgery. Don't give up on your system down south. There are some good parts to it.
 
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