sweetbasil said:
Twister Frost said:
sweetbasil said:
Hi Everyone,
I hope that everyone is doing well and enjoying Memorial Day weekend. I have been super busy trying to wrap up my class. I can't wait to come back and share a few things I have learned since last time I posted.
I find the article below worthy of reading since it is an issue that many of us are not aware of concerning the double standard for higher education in the United States today!
Best Wishes,
Sweetbasil
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-05-25/news/bs-ed-rodricks-dreamact-20110525_1_international-students-dream-act-foreign-students
This might put us into the waters of Political Bull, but I am going to say that I am not sure I see a double standard in this situation. The "illegal" high school students are here illegally; whereas, the international students are here on qualified visas. Back when I went to college, it seemed that the US shared an agreement with certain countries concerning educational exchange---don't hold my feet to the fire on that because that was twenty-five years ago! I see the Dream Act as another way to push through an amnesty bill---just my take on it.
I wasn't referring to the illegal students regarding the double standard. There is a double standard in our educational system between accepting foreign students in our schools and our own. The foreign students get to take a basic English exam, and take the seats that belong to our students who have worked twice as hard, taking Advance Placement classes, doing community service, among other things.
Our students must take the SAT exam which is very rigourous. The TOEFL is equivalent to the SAT for the foreign students; however, the level of comprehension is not to the same. The reason that colleges are promoting more foreign students is because they get to pay "out of state tuition" which allows the schools to make twice the money.
Check the websites below to give you an idea of the difficulty level of the TOEFL in contrast to the SATs.
http://www.learn4good.com/languages/toefl/toefl_stan_test1.htm
http://www.testprepreview.com/vocabulary.htm
Sweetbasil,
Sorry for misunderstanding what your double standard was referring to, but the hyperlink was about the Dream Act, not international students.
I understand what you are saying; yet, I still do not see the double standard, but that could be because my understanding of the testing is different than yours. As I understand the TOEFL, it is used to measure the proficiency of someone whose native language is not English. The testing is no different than the “remedial English and math” tests that universities give to our students who score lower than an eighteen/nineteen on an ACT (no idea what the number is on the SAT) to meet placement in a college level math/English course. If an international student can meet the cut-off score for the TOEFL, the only thing it indicates is that the non-native English level is at par for placement in college level classes. Does that mean it is perfect? No, but it must meet the standards shared between the countries since it is what is used. I do not believe that the TOEFL is the only tool used for the testing of international students---as stated, I believe it is only for English proficiency. I think there are quite a few (thousands) of international students who also take the SAT for entry into American colleges/universities. I would guess it depends on what each college/university sets as requirements for international students’ admissions.
As far as seats being taken away from “our” students who have passed the SAT and have AP classes under their belts, I’m not sure I can verify any of that. As a teacher, I will tell you that there are many students traveling through our educational system who believe they are entitled to post secondary education, whether they have earned the right or sloughed off the last four years. For some, it will be an important life lesson, and for others they will survive and do well in college/university. I still would not take away the chance for a student to be able to make the choice of attending school, legally. Obviously, our American educational system must be one of the best in the world, or why else would so many foreigners select our schools for learning to eventually take home to their country. Their own country must not provide what we do.
I guess, I am not sure if what you are hinting at with your double standard is that international students should not be allowed in classes unless no other “American” students want the remaining spots or if they should not be allowed in our educational system—period.. I am sure it must be frustrating to have non-native speakers who do not comprehend what is being said in class. But, they have paid for their “spot” and have legally gone through the channels to be here. After all, post secondary education is not mandatory, so it is run as a business. I imagine in other foreign countries there are American students posing the same problems, probably frustrating the Chinese et.al. students and teacher by asking questions over information that was covered in the last class, only because it took the American student a week to figure out what was really being said (insert exaggeration!). I do sympathize with you and your predicament in this class that the thread was originally begun for. I just see it somewhat differently. There is no level playing field---every “field” is rough, it depends on how we as individuals choose to “farm” our plot in life. We can use our individual talents and strengths to our personal good, or we can worry about what someone else is getting that we are not. Leveling the playing field for everyone only makes for sameness, and I tend to prefer to show my own unique abilities (or lack thereof!). Again, I do understand what you are saying, but I think with time, you might see what I am saying and realize that you don’t want a level playing field for everyone. Some people work harder and deserve better for that. Some people work harder and do not care if anyone ever knows it. And some people will never work but insist on being treated equally.