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Why are you against this?

RoperAB

Well-known member
Since I have posted and posted about how we not only dont need Iraq oil but that we would be paying less at the pump if Iraq didnt have a drop of oil. Why not destroy the Iraq oil fields?
If this was done we could forget about Iraq because then they dont matter. No oil/no revenue for the enemy. Then Iraq is about as important as Somolia. Withdraw and let them live in the stone age.
Is it because the wrong person<me> came up the idea?
Is it because your worried about Haliburton interest?
World oppinion?

About Rumsfeld
As far as im concerned Rumsfeld being the man that he is has simple fell on his sword for the overall good of the war effort. They are making him the scapegoat :(

About the Democrats
Is it just me or have others noticed as well that the closer they get to power the more they withdraw their talk about pulling out of Iraq?
You know the farther away you are from power the more claims you can make.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
You're not paying much attention. Since the election some Dems and at least one Republican, have called for a phased pullout over the next four to six months. See link below; my emphasis. But, again, Congress can't withdraw troops. It's up to the Commander In Chief, President George W. Bush, to withdraw the troops.

"Democrats, who won majorities in the U.S. Congress in last week's elections, said on Sunday they will push for a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq to begin in four to six months."

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-11-12T145224Z_01_N12416335_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ-USA-DEMOCRATS.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C2-TopNews-newsOne-2
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
You can't destroy the largest oil reserves in the world. That would truly throw the world into chaos! The pollution it would cause would be mind boggling....and you'd never get the fires out. That can't happen.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
You can't destroy the largest oil reserves in the world. That would truly throw the world into chaos! The pollution it would cause would be mind boggling....and you'd never get the fires out. That can't happen.

Iraq doesnt have the largest oil reserves! Come on do I have to look up web links for you? Canada alone has almost twice the proven oil reserves that Iraq does. Iraq isnt even the biggest oil player in the gulf region. Iraq is a drop in the bucket.
Then if you figgure in Coal to Oil everything looks all the better! This idea that we are running out of oil is the biggest crock that ever was. Republicans<haliburton plays it for there own $ interest. Democrats use it an an excuse to tax us and make us feel guilty.

Nuke or dirty bomb the oil fields. Not so much smoke this way. Like the idea isnt to destroy the oil so much as to just have the surface so radio active to prevent occupation by either Iranian soldiers or oil patch crews or anybody for the next 50 years.
This would also send one hell of a message to other would be oil rich enemys in the region.
 

memanpa

Well-known member
roper shame on you for advocating such a thing!! you know how DISQUSTING and little miss innocent kolo do not want to step on any toes unless it is a conservitive! then the gloves come off but they are afraid of breaking a nail so they yell scream shout and slink off into the shadows when the going gets tuff.
not a bad idea you have but it will never work cause some one might get hurt!, breaking a nail protesting
:D :D :D :D
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
memanpa said:
roper shame on you for advocating such a thing!! you know how DISQUSTING and little miss innocent kolo do not want to step on any toes unless it is a conservitive! then the gloves come off but they are afraid of breaking a nail so they yell scream shout and slink off into the shadows when the going gets tuff.
not a bad idea you have but it will never work cause some one might get hurt!, breaking a nail protesting
:D :D :D :D

Plan B
In order to clean up a war that has already been won. New tactics are needed.

#1 Since Iraq is so dangerous, set up safe houses for women and children. These safe houses "concentration camps"would be in remote rural locations. For there own safety force all woman and children to live there.

#2 To prevent food and weapons from getting into the hands of the guerillas you need to destroy all livestock, farms and stop all importation of food and supplies"scorched earth".

#3 Disarm the enemy. If you watch the news it would seem like every Iraqi is running around with explosives and AK47s. You have to establish a front, then from there, go house by house, tearing them a part looking for weapons. If any weapons are found all inhabitants of the house should be executed as guerillas. If they fight back, call in artillery and air support and bomb the heck out of the area. Once an area is secured and turned into a safe area do not allow anybody from the unsecured areas set foot into it again.
Also anybody found or seen anywhere carrying a weapon should be considered a guerlla and killed.

#4 Control the borders and movements within Iraq. Dont allow anybody"guerillas or reporters" to come into the Country. Anybody who is caught moving within the country should be engaged as hostile.

#5 Cut off all lines of communications for the guerillas. This means all phone lines"internet", radio and cell phone communications. What happens in Iraq is whats reported by our military.

#6 The Kurds seem to be the only allie in Iraq because of this they should be excempt from all of the above. The should be armed and left in power when its all over with.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Im bumping this to the top. This is just a modern version of what Lord Kichener did in the Boer War which is very similiar in certain ways to what we now have in Iraq. I still dont understand why nobody supports this?Do you want to stay the course forever? Do you want to cut and run? This is what war is and has always been. Its just that years ago everything was sanitised in the media.
RoperAB said:
Plan B
In order to clean up a war that has already been won. New tactics are needed.

#1 Since Iraq is so dangerous, set up safe houses for women and children. These safe houses "concentration camps"would be in remote rural locations. For there own safety force all woman and children to live there.

#2 To prevent food and weapons from getting into the hands of the guerillas you need to destroy all livestock, farms and stop all importation of food and supplies"scorched earth".

#3 Disarm the enemy. If you watch the news it would seem like every Iraqi is running around with explosives and AK47s. You have to establish a front, then from there, go house by house, tearing them a part looking for weapons. If any weapons are found all inhabitants of the house should be executed as guerillas. If they fight back, call in artillery and air support and bomb the heck out of the area. Once an area is secured and turned into a safe area do not allow anybody from the unsecured areas set foot into it again.
Also anybody found or seen anywhere carrying a weapon should be considered a guerlla and killed.

#4 Control the borders and movements within Iraq. Dont allow anybody"guerillas or reporters" to come into the Country. Anybody who is caught moving within the country should be engaged as hostile.

#5 Cut off all lines of communications for the guerillas. This means all phone lines"internet", radio and cell phone communications. What happens in Iraq is whats reported by our military.

#6 The Kurds seem to be the only allie in Iraq because of this they should be excempt from all of the above. The should be armed and left in power when its all over with.
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
Im bumping this to the top. This is just a modern version of what Lord Kichener did in the Boer War which is very similiar in certain ways to what we now have in Iraq. I still dont understand why nobody supports this?Do you want to stay the course forever? Do you want to cut and run? This is what war is and has always been. Its just that years ago everything was sanitised in the media.
RoperAB said:
Plan B
In order to clean up a war that has already been won. New tactics are needed.

#1 Since Iraq is so dangerous, set up safe houses for women and children. These safe houses "concentration camps"would be in remote rural locations. For there own safety force all woman and children to live there.

#2 To prevent food and weapons from getting into the hands of the guerillas you need to destroy all livestock, farms and stop all importation of food and supplies"scorched earth".

#3 Disarm the enemy. If you watch the news it would seem like every Iraqi is running around with explosives and AK47s. You have to establish a front, then from there, go house by house, tearing them a part looking for weapons. If any weapons are found all inhabitants of the house should be executed as guerillas. If they fight back, call in artillery and air support and bomb the heck out of the area. Once an area is secured and turned into a safe area do not allow anybody from the unsecured areas set foot into it again.
Also anybody found or seen anywhere carrying a weapon should be considered a guerlla and killed.

#4 Control the borders and movements within Iraq. Dont allow anybody"guerillas or reporters" to come into the Country. Anybody who is caught moving within the country should be engaged as hostile.

#5 Cut off all lines of communications for the guerillas. This means all phone lines"internet", radio and cell phone communications. What happens in Iraq is whats reported by our military.

#6 The Kurds seem to be the only allie in Iraq because of this they should be excempt from all of the above. The should be armed and left in power when its all over with.

1. The American people will never stand for this. We went into Iraq to get those WMDs before Saddam could give them to terrorists who would bring them to the US, or to liberate the people, whichever reason you want to choose. Neither of them gives us the right to force women and children from their homes into concentration camps. We're not Nazis. On top of that, who will build the camps, get food, water, etc., to these concerntration camps? The US Army? Or will Halliburton get that contract, too?

2. Same as #1.

3. ROTFLMAO! Who's the enemy? Men in Iraqi police and army uniforms routinely kidnap and murder Iraqs, after they torture them. Are you going to disarm the police and army? Our government is calling for more police and army units to be trained! Don't you realize the Iraqi government is in charge? Not the Americans? When the Americans closed streets and set up checkpoints in a neighborhood to search for a missing American soldier, the Iraqi Prime Minister forced them to remove the checkpoints. Read that again: the US Army bowed to the Iraqi government and left an American soldier at risk. Who do you think is going to disarm the militas? The Iraqi Prime Minister flatly refused to do that when Negreponte (sp?) talked to him last week. He said they'd look into it next year! We don't have enough troops to secure the country! That's one reason this whole thing is in such a mess! The Bush Bunch chose to go in light. We were supposed to be welcomed with open arms, flowers thrown at our feet. The fools refused to listen to professional Army leaders who told them they needed more troops! Your ignorance is amazing!

4. We don't have enough troops to close the borders. You are totally ignorant of the situation if you don't realize how short handed our military is in Iraq. It's impossible to have a sensible discussion with someone so uninformed as you. Some units are heading back to Iraq for their third deployment!

5. The cell phone towers used by the Iraqis are also used by the military. Are you going house to house and take cell phones? That's going to take a whole lot of troops. Troops we don't have on the ground in Iraq. We're a democracy here in the US. The military works for us, not the other way around. The troops over there have families that they want to remain in touch with. We have a free press. This is not going to happen; this should not happen.

6. The Kurds are exempted from everything. They don't even fly the Iraqi flag in their section of the country. I doubt they'll ever become a part of Iraq again, which leads to big problems if Kurds in other countries decide to break away and join them.

George W. Bush has put this country in an impossible situation. Republicans as well as Democrats are calling for the Iraqi government to be put on notice to step up and take control. I'm for pulling our troops out right now. The US military can't make Sunnis and Shiites love each other. That's not their job. Not one more American should die for these people; they don't deserve it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#4 Control the borders and movements within Iraq. Dont allow anybody"guerillas or reporters" to come into the Country. Anybody who is caught moving within the country should be engaged as hostile.

Everytime I read someone say "control the borders or secure the border" or "track down terrorists" I have to chuckle :lol: We can't even control our own border in our own country- or track down the 15-20 million illegal aliens (including God only knows how many terrorists) that are living within our borders....How are we going to do it in a foreign country? :wink: :lol:

Or are our Corporate bought Administration and Politicians lying to us about their desire to solve the illegal problem :???:
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
I only have a minute here and not really time to respond but Gosh Almigthty Dis are you really that dumb? Are you American? If so, you friggen well dont know your own history. Remember years ago when America won wars? How in the frig do you think they won them? With hugs and kisses?
Do some research into what was done in the Philippines. Remember the war with Teddys Roughriders?
Concentration camps are as American as apple pie. So is scourched earth policies.
Frig your misinformation replys are annoying. Like do you really believe the stuff you say or do you think we are just to stupid to know any better.
This is why I dont respond to your posts. Its a waste of time. You just use threads to make up crap
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
#4 Control the borders and movements within Iraq. Dont allow anybody"guerillas or reporters" to come into the Country. Anybody who is caught moving within the country should be engaged as hostile.

Everytime I read someone say "control the borders or secure the border" or "track down terrorists" I have to chuckle :lol: We can't even control our own border in our own country- or track down the 15-20 million illegal aliens (including God only knows how many terrorists) that are living within our borders....How are we going to do it in a foreign country? :wink: :lol:

Or are our Corporate bought Administration and Politicians lying to us about their desire to solve the illegal problem :???:

Your government could control your border with Mexico but Rep. and Dems. a like dont want to. The only time they bring it up is when they need a red heiring<diversion>
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
A brief exerpt on The Spanish American War

The Filipino general Francisco Makabulos described the Filipinos' war aim as, "not to vanquish the US Army but to inflict on them constant losses." They sought to initially use conventional (later guerilla) tactics and an increasing toll of US casualties to contribute to McKinley's defeat in the 1900 presidential election. Their hope was that as President the avowedly anti-imperialist William Jennings Bryan would withdraw from the Philippines. They pursued this short-term goal with guerilla tactics better suited to a protracted struggle. While targeting McKinley motivated the revolutionaries in the short term, his victory demoralized them and convinced many undecided Filipinos that the United States would not depart precipitately

The guerrilla war phase
In 1900, Aguinaldo shifted from conventional to guerrilla warfare, a means of operation which better suited their disadvantaged situation and made American occupation of the Philippine archipelago all the more difficult over the next few years. In fact, during just the first four months of the guerrilla war, the Americans lost nearly 500 men who were either killed or wounded. The Philippine Army began staging bloody ambushes and raids. Most infamous were the guerrilla victories at Pulang Lupa and Balangiga. At first, it even seemed as if the Filipinos would fight the Americans to a stalemate and force them to withdraw. This was even considered by President McKinley at the beginning of the phase.

The shift to guerrilla warfare, however, only angered the Americans into acting more ruthlessly than before. They began taking no prisoners, burning whole villages, and routinely shooting surrendering Filipino soldiers. Much worse were the concentration camps that civilians were forced into, after being suspected of being guerrilla sympathizers. Thousands of civilians died in these camps. In nearly all cases, the civilians suffered much worse than the actual guerrillas.

The subsequent American repression towards the population tremendously reduced the materials, men, and morale of many Filipino soldiers, compelling them in one way or another to surrender.

American torture and scorched-earth campaigns

General Jacob H. Smith's infamous order, "Kill everyone over ten," was the caption in the New York Journal cartoon on May 5, 1902. The Old Glory draped an American shield on which a vulture replaced the bald eagle. Caption is: "Criminals because they were born ten years before we took the Philippines."In 1908, Manuel Arellano Remondo, in a book entitled General Geography of the Philippine Islands, wrote: "The population decreased due to the wars, in the five-year period from 1895 to 1900, since, at the start of the first insurrection, the population was estimated at 9,000,000, and at present (1908), the inhabitants of the Archipelago do not exceed 8,000,000 in number."[26]

U.S. attacks into the countryside often included scorched earth campaigns where entire villages were burned and destroyed, torture (water cure) and the concentration of civilians into "protected zones" (concentration camps). Many of the civilian casualties resulted from disease and famine. Reports of the execution of U.S. soldiers taken prisoner by the Filipinos led to savage reprisals by American forces. Many American officers and soldiers called war a "nigger killing business".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War#War_Crimes
 

Disagreeable

Well-known member
RoperAB said:
A brief exerpt on The Spanish American War

The Filipino general Francisco Makabulos described the Filipinos' war aim as, "not to vanquish the US Army but to inflict on them constant losses." They sought to initially use conventional (later guerilla) tactics and an increasing toll of US casualties to contribute to McKinley's defeat in the 1900 presidential election. Their hope was that as President the avowedly anti-imperialist William Jennings Bryan would withdraw from the Philippines. They pursued this short-term goal with guerilla tactics better suited to a protracted struggle. While targeting McKinley motivated the revolutionaries in the short term, his victory demoralized them and convinced many undecided Filipinos that the United States would not depart precipitately

The guerrilla war phase
In 1900, Aguinaldo shifted from conventional to guerrilla warfare, a means of operation which better suited their disadvantaged situation and made American occupation of the Philippine archipelago all the more difficult over the next few years. In fact, during just the first four months of the guerrilla war, the Americans lost nearly 500 men who were either killed or wounded. The Philippine Army began staging bloody ambushes and raids. Most infamous were the guerrilla victories at Pulang Lupa and Balangiga. At first, it even seemed as if the Filipinos would fight the Americans to a stalemate and force them to withdraw. This was even considered by President McKinley at the beginning of the phase.

The shift to guerrilla warfare, however, only angered the Americans into acting more ruthlessly than before. They began taking no prisoners, burning whole villages, and routinely shooting surrendering Filipino soldiers. Much worse were the concentration camps that civilians were forced into, after being suspected of being guerrilla sympathizers. Thousands of civilians died in these camps. In nearly all cases, the civilians suffered much worse than the actual guerrillas.

The subsequent American repression towards the population tremendously reduced the materials, men, and morale of many Filipino soldiers, compelling them in one way or another to surrender.

American torture and scorched-earth campaigns

General Jacob H. Smith's infamous order, "Kill everyone over ten," was the caption in the New York Journal cartoon on May 5, 1902. The Old Glory draped an American shield on which a vulture replaced the bald eagle. Caption is: "Criminals because they were born ten years before we took the Philippines."In 1908, Manuel Arellano Remondo, in a book entitled General Geography of the Philippine Islands, wrote: "The population decreased due to the wars, in the five-year period from 1895 to 1900, since, at the start of the first insurrection, the population was estimated at 9,000,000, and at present (1908), the inhabitants of the Archipelago do not exceed 8,000,000 in number."[26]

U.S. attacks into the countryside often included scorched earth campaigns where entire villages were burned and destroyed, torture (water cure) and the concentration of civilians into "protected zones" (concentration camps). Many of the civilian casualties resulted from disease and famine. Reports of the execution of U.S. soldiers taken prisoner by the Filipinos led to savage reprisals by American forces. Many American officers and soldiers called war a "nigger killing business".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War#War_Crimes

:roll: You see the title in that reference: War Crimes.

We have rules for war and this sort of thing is not acceptable, not because we're weak, but because we don't want our own being treated this way. The Dems are going to work to get the Geneva Convention again recognized by this government. And rightly so. I don't know how many young American GIs and Marines are in jail, either waiting for trial or convicted, for killing innocent Iraqis. The US has formally apologized to Japanese citizens of this country for interring them in concerntration camps during WWII.

Your scenero is not going to fly. Bush has gotten us into an awful situation. There is no simple solution. We either get out today or we kill thousands more innocent Iraqis and hundreds more Americans and then we get out. I say get out now.
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Your hard to ignore. I wish you would ignore me and then I would ignore you. Look I could post similar stuff about every war. I dont want to turn this thread into thread about how ruthless American soldiers are. Im not doing that but some will probable take it the wrong way. Im just trying to illustrate what war is. All sides fight like this. Well we used to anyways and still do when the world isnt watching.
War is not like a John Wayne /Ronald Reagan /Jimmy Stewart war propaganda film that every American has seen to many of.
You know how people think that gun fights in the west were fair play or how the marshal always let the bad guy go for his gun first? Well unfortunately to many North Americans have the same silly idea about how we fight wars. Now with all this modern communications this is screwing us up because people get upset if we dont fight the way they think we did from all the WW2 propaganda Hollywood films that they have seen.
Look War Crimes are commited by whoever loses the war. Whoever wins writes the history books. Do you understand what I am saying?
BTW I found that link by typeing in philippine concentration camps when I did my search.
You need to grow up. If you are indeed an American which I doubt you are but if you are, your Country is dangerousely close to loseing two wars at the same time. I blame this on liberals like yourself!
If this happens which I hope to God it doesnt. Gosh I dont even think the French have lost two wars at the same time? Anyway its really just one war<Iraq and Afghanistan> but thats not the way people will see it. If America loses it not only loses both wars but it loses all credibility internationaly. This is not a good thing!!!!!!
Look if I know one thing its this. Weakness invites attack!
 

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