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Why do TSEs cross species - possible answer

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PORKER

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Jones and Surewicz also note that the new findings offer "the unsettling possibility" that repeated cross-species transmission events might eventually create prion fibril strains that can bridge the infection gap between previously separate animals like humans and elk and deer, which suffer from a prion disease called chronic wasting disease. ******* I think that the presence of metal ions in the species helps transmissions to other animals and some have a resistance or the level of ions hasn't broken the infection gap.My thought is that there is a little bit going on from all angles,not just ONE.
 

rkaiser

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:?We're all gonna Die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't bother responding lovey, it's just me the dumby.

Hugs and kisses.
 

PORKER

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Deer ,seem to have leap froged the TSE jump from out west to the east by import of animals or some other factor.WHO knows,maybe it was a truck that had TSE's carried on its tires .If you look at a map of where TSE is the deer and elk population ,it is always along major trunk lines.Same with BSE in the EU.seems that its in clusters or short distances from major roads.
 

rkaiser

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Wow porker that is an amazing discovery. Can I be the first to nominate you for the Nobel prize. As much proof in your theory as there is in the other American with the Nobel for Prion research. 8)
 
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PORKER said:
Deer ,seem to have leap froged the TSE jump from out west to the east by import of animals or some other factor.WHO knows,maybe it was a truck that had TSE's carried on its tires .If you look at a map of where TSE is the deer and elk population ,it is always along major trunk lines.Same with BSE in the EU.seems that its in clusters or short distances from major roads.

I'm not sure because I haven't followed it close enough lately-but I don't think Montana had TSE's until they found it in "imported game farm" game--which I think many of came out of Colorado- I know some had TB... Which immediately led the legislature to close all game farming.....which kind of says to me we should be a little more "isolationist" in our playing with nature.........
 

rkaiser

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I heard those original deer came from Canada Oldtimer, but Rdeer couldn't find a Judge to help them prove it!
 
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rkaiser said:
I heard those original deer came from Canada Oldtimer, but Rdeer couldn't find a Judge to help them prove it!

I think it was actually supposedly elk-- that were found not to be true Rocky Mountain elk but when DNAed were closer related to imported Red Deer "stag"------I never did hear where they originated from- but I do know it shut down all movement of game animals in the state and flat killed the game farming industry...
 

PORKER

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Come down here in Florida ,the new law passed today says that anyone that attacks you even on the street has the right to attack back ,even to shoot then.You Come'en? If you are I am ready!
 

rkaiser

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:) Porky I was talking about a scap here on ranchers, but like a typical American you right away want to bring out a gun or a bomb or something.
 

rkaiser

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:) In fact Porky, here in Canadar you can still kick someone's ass every now and then and not even get sued. Go figure.
 

rkaiser

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:) That a boy porky, I'm just out for a little fun and some vent, it's been a long day up here in doomsland. Too many negative comments from people today. Just couldn't take any more from you and old reader(the fear monger)

Can't you guys see that supporting these theories simply adds fuel to their fires. Nothing but theory; theory that has no benefit for any rancher in America, Canada, or the world.
 

PORKER

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There's too many people around the world affected by BSE and we all need to work together to solve it.And besides I would like to buy another Murray Grey bull from North of the SOO in Canada.
 

rkaiser

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Murray Grey Smurray Grey, Why not a Galloway, or a Welsh Black.

I'm all sold out, but you can look at all of my sale bulls on out website under sale catalog.
 

PORKER

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The Galloways from Grand Bend ONT. are good broodcows,they can stand the Northern Michigan winters.
 

rkaiser

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:) Don't do the bar thing anymore, but it's kinda fun chewin fat with you guys here on ranchers while polishin off a couple of Mike's Hard Lemonade. Thanks for a nice evening Porky.
 

Kathy

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All this talk of fibrils is certainly interesting. I believe, that somewhere around 20 - 25 percent of the BSE cases in the UK did not demonstrate fibril formation in the diseased brain. This is quite interesting, too.

As for these fibrils, I note that in Alzheimers and other diseases like amyloidosis, the scientists don't call these fibrils "infectious". So here we have differences in the fibrils that needs explanation.

The Auburn University patent application [20040137523] filtered the metals from the test samples, and were then UNABLE to amplify their "proteons" (another name for prions?) without them: (PNCs are proteon nucleation centers comprising of metal clusters):

[0048] Filtration of plasma before heat treatment abolishes proteon formation in the retentate. However, recombination of the fractions results in the resumption of proteon formation, and the number of proteons formed is dependent upon the amount of filtrate added back to the retentate. Thus, the PNCs are present in the filtrate.

They also stated that:

[0068].....while proteons washed from the filter contain practically all bands of plain proteons, indicating that misfolded albumin and hemoglobin may be present in proteons

What is truely intriguing is their statement:

[0094].....The presence of non-noble metallic nanoparticles implies that the surrounding organic matrix has either impeded oxygen access to the metallic particles and/or has a significant reducing effect.

[0095] Many of the nanoparticles survived coarsening. The surface energy of the particles provides a driving force for larger particles to cannibalize smaller particles (the surface area to volume ratio for a 1-nm particle is 6.times.10.sup.9 m.sup.-1 and this drops by an order of magnitude for a 10-nm particle). Metallic materials have relatively high solid-vapor interfacial energies (.gamma..sub.SV) and those for copper and .alpha.-iron are around the middle of the range for metallic materials (at .about.2.2 and 3.2 J m.sup.-2, respectively; Murr (1975) Interfacial Phenomena in Metals and Alloys (Addison-Wesley; reprinted by TechBooks, Herdon, Va.)). Thus unless the metal-organic matrix interface has an interfacial energy (.gamma..sub.SM) that is such that .gamma..sub.SM<<.gamma..sub.SV, there would remain a significant thermodynamic driving force for coarsening. Given the kinetics of coarsening, if all that were present were the metallic nanoparticles, room-temperature coarsening would occur at a negligible rate (solid-state sintering involves bulk diffusion, interfacial diffusion, free surface diffusion and evaporation and re-condensation, all of which would be very slow for Cu or .alpha.-Fe at room temperature). See Ashby (1974), Acta Metallurgica 22(3):275-289. See also, Swinkels and Ashby (1981) Acta Metallurgica 29(2):259-281. Although the presence of the organic liquid matrix raises possibilities for mass transport, it appears that the matrix did not provide a path for the rapid transfer of metal atoms since many of the nanoparticles of served in the present work remained extremely fine.


These quotations are also agruements for the various "strains" of TSEs. Different metal clusters (PNCs) with different interfacial energies, will in some cases create true crystals. These crystals will have distinct shapes, and will, likely, preferrentially bind specific proteins (or portions thereof).

How these crystal "seeds" are introduced into our bodies is under debate, and not just on rancher.net.

I also wonder about Drug Elluting Stents. Certain types have been recalled and they too, can cause a sticking together of blood proteins. Patients that stopped taking their blood thinners, be it aspirin or some other drug, developed thrombosis within days and had heart attacks. I am wondering whether there is some type of interfacial energy that builds up on the tissues surrounding the DES. Why does this rapid thrombosis take place after halting the blood thinner??

The coolest thing about science and biology is that our bodies are millions/billions of chemical reactions taking place all the time, all at once. I hope that the research will look at how these rogue metals are entering our bodies. Our local metal researcher, has stated that ingestion (eating/consumption) of metals is the least effective way of contaminating our bodies. Injection would be the most effective, and inhalation would be more effective than eating the metals. If CWD is correlated to major highways, as someone else stated earlier; perhaps there is a link to the exhaust/emmissions coming from the vehicles? MMT (a manganese based fuel additive which several organizations are completely against) is added to 3% of the American fuel (mostly NW states), and is used everywhere in Canada.
 

Kathy

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To clarify the stents comment, the patients who suffered heart attacks after stopping their blood thinners, for surgery etc. When they had angiograms done (or autopsies), only the drug elluting stent was plugged with a thrombus (blood clot). Some patients had more than one type of stent. Only the ones recalled that were polymerized with a specific drug releasing compound, were blocked. The regular old fashioned stents were clear.

If you know anyone with heart stents or someone having surgery for insertion of a heart stent, they should definitely ask their doctors about this situation, and do some research on their own, just google "drug elluting stents".
 

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