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why E verify is a failure.

Steve

Well-known member
Q : If I am an employer who would like to run an employee's Form I-9 information through E-Verify, but that employee does not yet have a Social Security Number, what should I do?

Employees who do not yet have a Social Security Number may not have their information run through E-Verify. If you are an employer with such an employee, you should complete the Form I-9 process with him/her and wait to run an E-Verify query on that individual until you have received his/her Social Security Number. You should note on the Form I-9 why you did not run an E-Verify query yet. Your employee should get his/her number to you quickly, and then you may run a query on that individual. In the mean time, you will have completed the Form I-9 Employment Eligibility process with your employee and verified his/her work authorization, so your employee will be allowed to work temporarily without a Social Security Number.

if he doesn't have an SS number.. he can't work.?.. not according to e-verify.. all you have to do is fill out the form.. and wait... and as an employer your in compliance.

why even allow hiring the person.. ?

A Social Security number is important because you need it to get a job,

How long will it take to get a Social Security number?

We must verify your documents with DHS before we assign you a Social Security number.

so as soon as your documents are verified.. you have a number assigned..

seems the loophole in the fed law is there to allow employers and illegals a way around short term employment..

thus e-verify fails in its intended purpose..
 

Steve

Well-known member
E-Verify is an Internet-based, free program run by the United States government that compares information from an employee's Employment Eligibility Verification Form I-9 to data from U.S. government records. If the information matches, that employee is eligible to work in the United States. If there's a mismatch, E-Verify alerts the employer and the employee is allowed to work while he or she resolves the problem

so you have the time from application... to verification.. and then you can work to resolve it.. and then... well there seems to be no end to that..

but the law allows another eight days after the and thens are all used up.

so if I need temporarily workers.. I have at least a month or so, and eight days.. before juan has to change names again.. and I am in compliance..

seems fair... but wasn't the intention of the e-verify to prevent this?
 

Steve

Well-known member
but participation in E-Verify is voluntary for most employers

so it fails.. and I can just take my time.. fill out an I-9 and wait .. then "resolve" the I-9.. then wait.. and finally after awhile.. (and then after eight days), I have to fire the temporary worker?

I just hope that lands before juans payday.. :twisted:

cause if he ain't eligible to work I can't pay him either... :twisted:
 

Steve

Well-known member
well as long as the fed is complying...

most of the federal government did not use the system when hiring employees,

what? the fed isn't even using it..

I thought..

a Office of Management and Budget directive mandates that all federal government agencies sign up to use E-Verify by October 1, 2007

wow that will be a duzy of a fine?

thankfully the SS is involved them guys are really on top of the fed laws..

Social Security Administration failed to perform required verifications of the Social Security numbers of 19 percent of its own new hires during a 18-month period, according to a January 2010 report from the agency’s inspector general

oops.. who is in charge over there?

what a dismal failure....
 

hopalong

Well-known member
But steve oldtimer is a firm believer that everyone should verify that they are not illegal, even if they are temp employees, perhaps he can explain how we are to do this?

EH? oldtimer can you explain how?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
If you had an automatic graduated jail sentence of 6 months, a year, two years in jail for employers hiring an illegal alien- even a temp- I'd be betting these folks would only be hiring employees with SS # and that had passed thru the E-Verify ....

The only exception to that conviction/sentence should be if you could show you ran the person thru E-Verify- and the program screwed up...

If you don't have a SS# that is almost a sure sign of an illegal- as most kids now have them soon after they are born as they are needed for parents/grandparents to set up any type savings accounts...
 

Bullhauler

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
If you had an automatic graduated jail sentence of 6 months, a year, two years in jail for employers hiring an illegal alien- even a temp- I'd be betting these folks would only be hiring employees with SS # and that had passed thru the E-Verify ....

The only exception to that conviction/sentence should be if you could show you ran the person thru E-Verify- and the program screwed up...

If you don't have a SS# that is almost a sure sign of an illegal- as most kids now have them soon after they are born as they are needed for parents/grandparents to set up any type savings accounts...

A SS# is also needed to claim your kids as dependents on your taxes.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
If you had an automatic graduated jail sentence of 6 months, a year, two years in jail for employers hiring an illegal alien- even a temp- I'd be betting these folks would only be hiring employees with SS # and that had passed thru the E-Verify ....

The only exception to that conviction/sentence should be if you could show you ran the person thru E-Verify- and the program screwed up...

If you don't have a SS# that is almost a sure sign of an illegal- as most kids now have them soon after they are born as they are needed for parents/grandparents to set up any type savings accounts...

How can you prove even a temp is legal if the e verify cant,????If IF IF IF
is that the best you can do oldtimer???

Bullhauler, all you need to do is provide a NUMBER on the tax form. THat is no proof of LEGAL residency!!!!!could take months before the IRS ever got around to provng the number was not real if ever!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
hopalong said:
Oldtimer said:
If you had an automatic graduated jail sentence of 6 months, a year, two years in jail for employers hiring an illegal alien- even a temp- I'd be betting these folks would only be hiring employees with SS # and that had passed thru the E-Verify ....

The only exception to that conviction/sentence should be if you could show you ran the person thru E-Verify- and the program screwed up...

If you don't have a SS# that is almost a sure sign of an illegal- as most kids now have them soon after they are born as they are needed for parents/grandparents to set up any type savings accounts...

How can you prove even a temp is legal if the e verify cant,????If IF IF IF
is that the best you can do oldtimer???

Bullhauler, all you need to do is provide a NUMBER on the tax form. THat is no proof of LEGAL residency!!!!!could take months before the IRS ever got around to provng the number was not real if ever!!!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

So are you saying GW screwed up again when he put forward and promoted the E-Verify program :???:

I can't see why anyone would hire anyone without a SS#- temp or not... And in the majority of the cases E-Verify can ascertain that folks are legal or not.....Like I said- if you started jailing employers for hiring illegals- I'll bet they would be looking at SS cards- and using E-verify- even to hire temps...

And when used correctly E-Verify works....Thats what its there for- the honest folks that want to keep honest....Crooks/cheats will always try to find another loophole/lie to get around being honest (kind of like multiple ID folks :wink: )...

According to the DHS website, more than 196,000 employers now use E-Verify. Over 1,400 companies enroll in the program every week.

About 5 percent of queries are identified as "not authorized to work".

A 2008 Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder states that the E-Verify system is 99.5 percent accurate.
 

hopalong

Well-known member
Two years after Arizona began requiring all employers to use a federal online program to ensure a legal workforce, a new study indicates that illegal workers are slipping through the system more than half of the time by using stolen identities.

Fifty-four percent of the illegal workers whose names were run through the program nationwide were wrongly found to be authorized to work, according to the report by Westat, a Maryland research company hired by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to evaluate the system, known as E-Verify.


The system's high inaccuracy rate for illegal workers using stolen identities has greatly alarmed business groups in Arizona.

The state's 2008 employer-sanctions law mandates that employers use E-Verify and gives authorities the power to close down businesses found to be knowingly hiring illegal workers.

"Arizona employers are relying when they sign up for E-Verify that this is an accurate program," said Glenn Hamer, president and CEO of the Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry. "If the system is busted, it's obviously unfair to punish employers."

In 2008, Arizona became the first state in the nation to require all employers to use E-Verify. Since then, more than 33,000 Arizona businesses have signed up for the program, the highest number of any state, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, which oversees E-Verify.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio has raided 30 businesses under the employer-sanctions law and has arrested hundreds of workers accused of using forgery, fraud and identity theft to gain employment illegally.

In November, County Attorney Andrew Thomas also filed a complaint against a custom-cabinet and -furniture business, the Scottsdale Art Factory.

And, in December, Thomas announced sanctions against a water park, but the sanctions never took effect because the park closed after it was raided. The water park has since reopened under new management.

State Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, who co-sponsored Arizona's sanctions law, said he is disappointed E-Verify has such a high inaccuracy rate for illegal workers, but he defended the program.

"It's disappointing to know that the best tool available is not that effective, but it's better than no tool," he said.

"It also shows the need to improve the system," either through enhancing photo checks or introducing biometric checks, such as fingerprint scanning.

Arizona's sanctions law spurred other states to pass similar laws as part of an effort to crack down on illegal immigration. Eleven other states now require at least some, if not all, businesses to use E-Verify.

The program is voluntary in other states. A total of 188,358 businesses out of about 7 million employers have signed up to use E-Verify nationwide. However, some members of Congress are pushing to make E-Verify mandatory nationwide.

E-Verify allows employers to use an online program to run a worker's information against Homeland Security and Social Security databases to check whether the person is authorized to work in the U.S.

The Westat report, which studied data from September 2007 to June 2008, found that 93 percent of the workers checked by employers were accurately deemed authorized to work. The system wrongly flagged less than 1 percent of legal workers as being unauthorized.

About 6 percent of the people run through the system should not have been authorized to work, the report said, but nearly 54 percent of them were wrongly deemed authorized. That 54 percent amounts to about 3.3 percent of the total workers run through the system.

The accuracy checks are estimates based on federal records and interviews with employers, workers and federal staff.

Last fiscal year, about 8.5 million queries were run through the system.

Bill Wright, a spokesman for the CIS in Washington, said the Westat report shows that overall, E-Verify is effective at preventing illegal immigrants from getting jobs, but he acknowledged the system has problems screening out those using stolen identities.

"I don't mean to trivialize it. Certainly, it's an issue," he said.

The government recently added a tool aimed at cutting down on the number of illegal workers who slip through E-Verify using stolen identities by letting employers match photos on green cards against photos in government immigration databases, he said.

The government also wants to work out agreements with states that incorporate driver's-license databases into the E-Verify system to further screen out illegal workers using stolen identities.

Marc Rosenblum, a senior policy analyst at the Migration Policy Institute, a research group in Washington, D.C., said the fact that 54 percent of illegal workers are slipping through E-Verify shows that the program is not an adequate tool.

"That's a pretty bad success rate," he said. "The bottom line is we can't expect E-Verify to solve the problem by itself."

Jim Harper, director of information-policy studies at the Cato Institute, said the study shows E-Verify is not only ineffective but that the program likely has spurred more illegal immigrants to use stolen identities to circumvent the system.

"The chances are very strong that is what happened," Harper said. The institute is a libertarian group in Washington, D.C., that favors increases in legal immigration over enforcement measures to solve illegal immigration.

In the past, illegal immigrants mostly used fake documents with invented Social Security numbers to get jobs. But recently, law-enforcement officials in Arizona have seen an increase in identity theft involving Social Security numbers and other information belonging to real people.

"We've probably arrested 30 individuals (since November) that all had to do with identity theft involving real (Social Security numbers)," said David Lugo, a detective who investigates document fraud for the Arizona Department of Transportation.

The increase in identity theft comes as the state's ability to investigate such crimes has been diminished. In November, the Arizona Fraudulent Identification Task Force made up of investigators from several law-enforcement agencies was eliminated due to budget cuts, said Lugo, a former member.

Republic reporter JJ Hensley contributed to this article.


EH oldtimer?????
 

Steve

Well-known member
OldTimer said:
And when used correctly E-Verify works

but most don't use it correctly, ... and it is not mandatory.. .

the law is full of holes... and for the most part a waste of taxpayer money..
 

Steve

Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
If you had an automatic graduated jail sentence of 6 months, a year, two years in jail for employers hiring an illegal alien- even a temp- I'd be betting these folks would only be hiring employees with SS # and that had passed thru the E-Verify ....

The only exception to that conviction/sentence should be if you could show you ran the person thru E-Verify- and the program screwed up...

If you don't have a SS# that is almost a sure sign of an illegal- as most kids now have them soon after they are born as they are needed for parents/grandparents to set up any type savings accounts...

if you read the law, and it's consequences it does not have the ability to prosecute those who use it, in fact it shields those who abuse it for temporary workers from prosecution..
 
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