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Why isn't the border open?

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Bill

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Now that the US and Canada both "officially" have BSE and supposedly similar checks and balances in place, why isn't the border set too open and of what use are the appeal court hearings?
 

CattleCo

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The border will re-open sooner than one may think!! :roll:
 

Sandhusker

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I wouldn't bet a whole lot on the border opening. One of R-CALF's main points was the the USDA did not do any study to quantify the risk of opening the border. They still haven't done any.
 

Brad S

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Bill,

If you really seek insight, you may find it studying history. Didn't Canada ban US beef when the Washington cow was found eventhouth Canada had already found more cases from a herd a fraction the size of the US herd?
 

Tam

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Sandhusker said:
I wouldn't bet a whole lot on the border opening. One of R-CALF's main points was the the USDA did not do any study to quantify the risk of opening the border. They still haven't done any.
Well according to the USDA they did. And I'm just asking Sandhusker but didn't R-CALF use the Harvard risk accessment to state the the US was producing the safest beef in the world because of the firewalls the USDA implimented. Then turned around and claimed the USDA firewalls didn't protect the US consumers and herd from the spread of BSE if introduced into the US and then turned around and claimed that if BSE was found in the US that the firewalls the USDA has had in place for so many years were put in place to protect and BSE would be a no issue. Were these all the same USDA firewalls that R-CALF was talking about. (To bad there isn't a Emoticon with a spinning head it would fit this statement to a T). Maybe R-CALF didn't notice but that Harvard risk accessment also said Canada and maybe they also didn't notice but our firewalls are stricted and better inforced. And if R-CALF would ever get off their soap box they would realize that Canadian Beef is the same as US and if you claim one is a genuine risk of death then the shallow of doubt reaches all the way to the south TEXAS border.
 

Tam

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Brad S said:
Bill,

If you really seek insight, you may find it studying history. Didn't Canada ban US beef when the Washington cow was found eventhouth Canada had already found more cases from a herd a fraction the size of the US herd?

Look again Brad Canada had there border closed for a VERY short time, days I think if at all and we do take LIVE UTM slaughter cattle and we also take any aged meat for personal consumption among all the other things we take that the US doesn't. And when the Washington cow was found we had not found more cases in our herd we only found one. So History along with math is not a hi priority in the R-CALF camp I see. :roll:
 
A

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Mike said:
You keep forgettin the 1993 cow.

And the cow that was found to have been born after the feed ban- from feed that was sitting around still being sold how long after the ban :???: 6 months, 1 year, 5 years :? :???: Are they still selling some of that feed in Alberta :???:
 

Tam

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Mike said:
You keep forgettin the 1993 cow.

OH Are you claiming the Washington cow from the US herd Mike as I see it All US producers have claimed she was a Canadian cow born in Canada not from the US herd. So why is the 1993 cow that was BORN and imported from the UK suddenly from the Canadian herd? If you claim the Washington cow as from the US herd then the 1993 cow is from the Canadian herd. But until then the 1993 cow was not from our herd.
 

Border rancher

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Really sandhusker, GIVE IT UP!

The only danger anyone in the USA (anyone that is,that had even a minimally functioning brain) could ever find from the border opening to Canadian live cattle was to the pocketbooks of US cattlemen. Most of us have known that from the beginning of this BSE farce!

Well, even though I can't blame US producers for being in "the right place at the right time", it's time for that run to be over. You have had your poltically inflated prices for long enough! In Canada those of us who really wanted to "hang on" and had the equity to do so, are still in business. It's time for we Canadian producers to get the prices we deserve. We do have an excellent product to sell, and countries around the world know that, even though a few in the US have been trying to convince the whole world the our beef is not safe.BUT THEIRS IS!! I can't see how that argument will work after this latest BSE find from Texas.

As I have said before, I don't know if R Calf has even been the sole perpetrator of the lies told about Canadian beef. Could be that the USDA was even in on it. I guess none of us will ever know for sure. But, as I have also said before, R Calf seems to like to claim the "fame" for all of the delay in border opening, so they get to take all the "blame." Only fair, I think!
 

Tam

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Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
You keep forgettin the 1993 cow.

And the cow that was found to have been born after the feed ban- from feed that was sitting around still being sold how long after the ban :???: 6 months, 1 year, 5 years :? :???: Are they still selling some of that feed in Alberta :???:

Can you explain this post as it looks like to are celebrating the 4th a bit early or drowning your sorrows from last week news. We were talking about pre Washington cow times.
Can you tell us Oldtimer just how much feed was not collected and destroyed in the US when the feed bans were put in place in 1997? Can you guarantee that the non compliant feed mills still in the US haven't been selling tainted feed? Can you tell us how many producers feed not fed but feed chicken litter and pet food back to their cattle? and wasn't the Texas cow taken to a pet food plant? Oh but she and 4 other cows were destroyed even though the test came back NEGATIVE :wink: right Oldtimer. And the Washington cow was a downer too wasn't she. :wink: Oldtimer when you start throwing around accusations of wrong doing you better make danm good and sure that your record and creditiblity is intact. :x
 
A

Anonymous

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Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
Mike said:
You keep forgettin the 1993 cow.

And the cow that was found to have been born after the feed ban- from feed that was sitting around still being sold how long after the ban :???: 6 months, 1 year, 5 years :? :???: Are they still selling some of that feed in Alberta :???:

Can you explain this post as it looks like to are celebrating the 4th a bit early or drowning your sorrows from last week news. We were talking about pre Washington cow times.
Can you tell us Oldtimer just how much feed was not collected and destroyed in the US when the feed bans were put in place in 1997? Can you guarantee that the non compliant feed mills still in the US haven't been selling tainted feed? Can you tell us how many producers feed not fed but feed chicken litter and pet food back to their cattle? and wasn't the Texas cow taken to a pet food plant? Oh but she and 4 other cows were destroyed even though the test came back NEGATIVE :wink: right Oldtimer. And the Washington cow was a downer too wasn't she. :wink: Oldtimer when you start throwing around accusations of wrong doing you better make danm good and sure that your record and creditiblity is intact. :x

Did I hit a tender spot :lol: :???: --That is one of the differences we have between the count-Reason we need a complete new re-evaluation- not by Harvard tho- I suggest MSU-Billings- and then a complete restudy of the USDA border rule, taking into effect the changes and see what the public input is now-- but anyway you look at it Canada has 4 origin cows US 1, but Canada has a post feed ban cow- and Canada has how many cows- you set the figure Tam :? - it changes daily whether you want to convince us that it won't cause a glut on the market or whether you are trying to tell us what a huge :lol: percentage of cattle you have tested......
 

frenchie

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Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
And the cow that was found to have been born after the feed ban- from feed that was sitting around still being sold how long after the ban :???: 6 months, 1 year, 5 years :? :???: Are they still selling some of that feed in Alberta :???:

Can you explain this post as it looks like to are celebrating the 4th a bit early or drowning your sorrows from last week news. We were talking about pre Washington cow times.
Can you tell us Oldtimer just how much feed was not collected and destroyed in the US when the feed bans were put in place in 1997? Can you guarantee that the non compliant feed mills still in the US haven't been selling tainted feed? Can you tell us how many producers feed not fed but feed chicken litter and pet food back to their cattle? and wasn't the Texas cow taken to a pet food plant? Oh but she and 4 other cows were destroyed even though the test came back NEGATIVE :wink: right Oldtimer. And the Washington cow was a downer too wasn't she. :wink: Oldtimer when you start throwing around accusations of wrong doing you better make danm good and sure that your record and creditiblity is intact. :x

Did I hit a tender spot :lol: :???: --That is one of the differences we have between the count-Reason we need a complete new re-evaluation- not by Harvard tho- I suggest MSU-Billings- and then a complete restudy of the USDA border rule, taking into effect the changes and see what the public input is now-- but anyway you look at it Canada has 4 origin cows US 1, but Canada has a post feed ban cow- and Canada has how many cows- you set the figure Tam :? - it changes daily whether you want to convince us that it won't cause a glut on the market or whether you are trying to tell us what a huge :lol: percentage of cattle you have tested......


THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CANADA AND THE U.S...iS THAT CANADA USES A TEST THAT WORKS AND DOES NOT TRY TO HIDE THINGS FROM THE WORLD.
OF COURSE WHEN YOU BELONG TO A GROUP THAT ASSOCIATES WITH THE ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS..YOU LIKELY CAN,T SEE CLEARLY ANYWAY. RIGHT OT

NOW THAT THE U. S HAS ADMITTED THEIR TESTING IS FLAWED PERHAPS THEY SHOULD START AT 0 AGAIN.mAYBE THEY WILL GET IT RIGHT NEXT TIME.




gOOD LUCK ot
 

Tam

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Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Oldtimer said:
And the cow that was found to have been born after the feed ban- from feed that was sitting around still being sold how long after the ban :???: 6 months, 1 year, 5 years :? :???: Are they still selling some of that feed in Alberta :???:

Can you explain this post as it looks like to are celebrating the 4th a bit early or drowning your sorrows from last week news. We were talking about pre Washington cow times.
Can you tell us Oldtimer just how much feed was not collected and destroyed in the US when the feed bans were put in place in 1997? Can you guarantee that the non compliant feed mills still in the US haven't been selling tainted feed? Can you tell us how many producers feed not fed but feed chicken litter and pet food back to their cattle? and wasn't the Texas cow taken to a pet food plant? Oh but she and 4 other cows were destroyed even though the test came back NEGATIVE :wink: right Oldtimer. And the Washington cow was a downer too wasn't she. :wink: Oldtimer when you start throwing around accusations of wrong doing you better make danm good and sure that your record and creditiblity is intact. :x

Did I hit a tender spot :lol: :???: --That is one of the differences we have between the count-Reason we need a complete new re-evaluation- not by Harvard tho- I suggest MSU-Billings- and then a complete restudy of the USDA border rule, taking into effect the changes and see what the public input is now-- but anyway you look at it Canada has 4 origin cows US 1, but Canada has a post feed ban cow- and Canada has how many cows- you set the figure Tam :? - it changes daily whether you want to convince us that it won't cause a glut on the market or whether you are trying to tell us what a huge :lol: percentage of cattle you have tested......

No it is just that I'm sick of you and R-CALF dragging up rumors about the Canadian herd just to make your system look not so pathetic. And if it takes the courts to prove they lie then lets go but I doubt with Cebull as the judge it will be a fair trial.

I suggest MSU-Billings-
Why does a R-CALF member run the research program in Billings or is it because Leo plays golf with the Dean there.
I think you have me confused with Leo. I have stated all along that the Canadian herd size is 1/7 the size of the US herd and R-CALF is the ones that change the figures to fit the story and you are guilty of it too, less than 5% come on Oldtimer :roll:
 

Manitoba_Rancher

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OT,

Arent you still feeding abit of that waste to cattle down there??????? Im not sure when I say this if I m correct or not but I would bet there have been more cases of BSE in the US and Canada that have went undiagnosed. i think its time both sides of the border worked together adn not against each other to make BSE a non-issue!
 
A

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frenchie said:
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Can you explain this post as it looks like to are celebrating the 4th a bit early or drowning your sorrows from last week news. We were talking about pre Washington cow times.
Can you tell us Oldtimer just how much feed was not collected and destroyed in the US when the feed bans were put in place in 1997? Can you guarantee that the non compliant feed mills still in the US haven't been selling tainted feed? Can you tell us how many producers feed not fed but feed chicken litter and pet food back to their cattle? and wasn't the Texas cow taken to a pet food plant? Oh but she and 4 other cows were destroyed even though the test came back NEGATIVE :wink: right Oldtimer. And the Washington cow was a downer too wasn't she. :wink: Oldtimer when you start throwing around accusations of wrong doing you better make danm good and sure that your record and creditiblity is intact. :x

Did I hit a tender spot :lol: :???: --That is one of the differences we have between the count-Reason we need a complete new re-evaluation- not by Harvard tho- I suggest MSU-Billings- and then a complete restudy of the USDA border rule, taking into effect the changes and see what the public input is now-- but anyway you look at it Canada has 4 origin cows US 1, but Canada has a post feed ban cow- and Canada has how many cows- you set the figure Tam :? - it changes daily whether you want to convince us that it won't cause a glut on the market or whether you are trying to tell us what a huge :lol: percentage of cattle you have tested......




NOW THAT THE U. S HAS ADMITTED THEIR TESTING IS FLAWED PERHAPS THEY SHOULD START AT 0 AGAIN.mAYBE THEY WILL GET IT RIGHT NEXT TIME.




gOOD LUCK ot

I will agree with that- I think everything- from evaluations, to BSE prevention and border proposals, to public comment period should start over- at least nothing should be done until th OIG has completed their investigation(s) and made recomendations....Whole new ball game- With the questions that have recently arisen in the last 6-7 months, it all needs a new relooking at.
 
A

Anonymous

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Border rancher: "The only danger anyone in the USA (anyone that is,that had even a minimally functioning brain) could ever find from the border opening to Canadian live cattle was to the pocketbooks of US cattlemen."

Actually, the R-CULTers have greatly overstated the affects of Canadian imports. Consider that roughly half of normal Canadian imports are coming down in boxes. When the Canadian imports of boxed beef resumed, our fat cattle market continued to rally. That proves that the closed Canadian border is not the driving force behind our current cattle prices. Increased consumer demand is!


~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Border rancher: "The only danger anyone in the USA (anyone that is,that had even a minimally functioning brain) could ever find from the border opening to Canadian live cattle was to the pocketbooks of US cattlemen."

Actually, the R-CULTers have greatly overstated the affects of Canadian imports. Consider that roughly half of normal Canadian imports are coming down in boxes. When the Canadian imports of boxed beef resumed, our fat cattle market continued to rally. That proves that the closed Canadian border is not the driving force behind our current cattle prices. Increased consumer demand is!


~SH~

Agman says consumer demand has been declining for some time now.....
 

Mike

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Border rancher: "The only danger anyone in the USA (anyone that is,that had even a minimally functioning brain) could ever find from the border opening to Canadian live cattle was to the pocketbooks of US cattlemen."
___________________________________________________________
The only danger anyone in Canada (anyone that is, that had even a minimally functioning brain) could ever find from the border closing to Canadian live cattle was to the pocketbooks of Canadian cattlemen.

Just playing around with words there! :wink:
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Manitoba_Rancher said:
OT,

Arent you still feeding abit of that waste to cattle down there??????? Im not sure when I say this if I m correct or not but I would bet there have been more cases of BSE in the US and Canada that have went undiagnosed. i think its time both sides of the border worked together adn not against each other to make BSE a non-issue!

The thing I can't understand about this "work together" idea is why we would want to be associated with an inferior system. I realize that the big packers have us in a squeeze, but it would seem to me that if we did enough lobbying for an export kill and chill facility, we would be far better off on our own.

How short is the Canadian memory . . .
 

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