Why Midwent cattlemen don't brand.

[wdcook]

1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

2. Most have never branded. I doubt that 1% of MO cattlemen have ever hot branded.

3. Hide damage.

4. Animal rights concerns. We may very well have to anethetize cattle to castrate and dehorn in the future. We don't need to give the animal rights activists any more ammunition.

5. Cattle are on much smaller acreages than out west therefore are seen more often and rustling historically has not been a major problem.

I'm 59 yrs old and have learned to never say never but I can guarantee you that close to 99% of midwest cattlemen will never hot brand.

 

[Faster horses]

It is getting so here in this area, more and more do not brand...

 

[Sandhusker]

1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

2. Most have never branded. I doubt that 1% of MO cattlemen have ever hot branded.

3. Hide damage.

4. Animal rights concerns. We may very well have to anethetize cattle to castrate and dehorn in the future. We don't need to give the animal rights activists any more ammunition.

5. Cattle are on much smaller acreages than out west therefore are seen more often and rustling historically has not been a major problem.

I'm 59 yrs old and have learned to never say never but I can guarantee you that close to 99% of midwest cattlemen will never hot brand.

I don't think the arguement is that they have to brand. The arguement is that the guys who do already have a good ID system in place.

 

[Ben H]

For the same reasons above, I don't know anyone in the North East who brands. I'm sure PatB will chime in, he knows more producers then I do.

 

[burnt]

1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

2. Most have never branded. I doubt that 1% of MO cattlemen have ever hot branded.

3. Hide damage.

4. Animal rights concerns. We may very well have to anethetize cattle to castrate and dehorn in the future. We don't need to give the animal rights activists any more ammunition.

5. Cattle are on much smaller acreages than out west therefore are seen more often and rustling historically has not been a major problem.

I'm 59 yrs old and have learned to never say never but I can guarantee you that close to 99% of midwest cattlemen will never hot brand.

I don't think the arguement is that they have to brand. The arguement is that the guys who do already have a good ID system in place.

So what percent of American cattle and cattlemen have no I.D.?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

2. Most have never branded. I doubt that 1% of MO cattlemen have ever hot branded.

3. Hide damage.

4. Animal rights concerns. We may very well have to anethetize cattle to castrate and dehorn in the future. We don't need to give the animal rights activists any more ammunition.

5. Cattle are on much smaller acreages than out west therefore are seen more often and rustling historically has not been a major problem.

I'm 59 yrs old and have learned to never say never but I can guarantee you that close to 99% of midwest cattlemen will never hot brand.

I can agree with your reasons except for this One.
1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

If they are to busy to provide proper husbandry they probably should not have cattle.
:?

 

[Sandhusker]

1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

2. Most have never branded. I doubt that 1% of MO cattlemen have ever hot branded.

3. Hide damage.

4. Animal rights concerns. We may very well have to anethetize cattle to castrate and dehorn in the future. We don't need to give the animal rights activists any more ammunition.

5. Cattle are on much smaller acreages than out west therefore are seen more often and rustling historically has not been a major problem.

I'm 59 yrs old and have learned to never say never but I can guarantee you that close to 99% of midwest cattlemen will never hot brand.

I don't think the arguement is that they have to brand. The arguement is that the guys who do already have a good ID system in place.

So what percent of American cattle and cattlemen have no I.D.?

I don't know. However, if you look at the brand areas on a map and compare that to cattle populations, you'll get a good idea.

 

[HAY MAKER]

1. Most are small producers that also crop, therefore lack time, help, and in some cases, facilities, to give summer shots and/or brand.

2. Most have never branded. I doubt that 1% of MO cattlemen have ever hot branded.

3. Hide damage.

4. Animal rights concerns. We may very well have to anethetize cattle to castrate and dehorn in the future. We don't need to give the animal rights activists any more ammunition.

5. Cattle are on much smaller acreages than out west therefore are seen more often and rustling historically has not been a major problem.

I'm 59 yrs old and have learned to never say never but I can guarantee you that close to 99% of midwest cattlemen will never hot brand.

All I can say is good thing you are in the Midwest,you try that along the Rio Grande and you would have bad luck
good luck

 

[Plumberbutt]

I live in Eastern Iowa and growing up, we ALWAYS branded our cows. We usually ran around 100 head, give or take. We did it due to the fact that we had neighbors who didn't have the best fences and then we would have some come up missing at times. I now have a small herd of my own and thought about branding, but I am the only around our area with Buelingo's.

By the way....I enjoy this forum and enjoy reading and learning all the different ideas.

 

[wdcook]

Big Muddy, I would submit that the term proper husbandry is very hard to define. I think anyone involved in Ag., whether or not they have crops or livestock or a combination of the two, if they are fully employed in Ag and dependent on Ag for their sole income, has to set priorities and often finds themselves not getting all the tasks done that should be done on a timely manner.

One of the reasons I peruse this sight (I'm mostly on ranch talk) is that I'm fascinated to learn about ranching "out west." My sense is that many of you from KS and NE and west are as ignorant of cattle production in the midwest as I am of your methods of beef production. e.g. many of "you" have always branded, many of "us" have never branded.

There are a couple of primary reasons that I am adamantly against a gov't mandated ID system. One is as a free market capitalist, I believe the marketplace is quite capable of signaling to me when and if an ID system would be warranted. Secondly, in this vast country of ours I don't believe any one system is practical for all producers.

 

[leanin' H]

I can't imagine not branding. But as has been said, different parts of the country do the same stuff different ways. When it comes to a nationwide ID system, I fall in the camp that feeld like if it helps keep beef buyers more comfortable, therefore eating more beef, I am for it. However I am leery of anything mandated by the federal government and their mindless redtape. That's why I belive we as producers must finally unite at a national level and do it ourselves. But I can't see that happening either with all the hard headed buggers like myself out there. I do know it will be a cold day in hell when we have to use anethsizia to casturate a calf. If we let the wack jobs radicals get to that point, we'll all be vegans!

 

[Yanuck]

wdcook...do you get paid extra for "no hide damage? We brand as our cattle go out on BLM in the summer

 

[Anonymous]

For the same reasons above, I don't know anyone in the North East who brands. I'm sure PatB will chime in, he knows more producers then I do.

GREAT- then you in your own state should develop your own system like using the metal tags that are used by the USDA to tag bangs vaccinates in most western states ( which the cows/heifers of which are both double IDed with brand and bangs tag...) For years cull cattle (that aren't bangs readable vaccinates- going out of this state have had to go for slaughter only and back tagged (traceable to owner) for that reason)...

But we don't need another federal bureacracy - like has turned into the tag police of Australia or Canada that goes around prosecuting folks because they didn't have the right tag in when they moved the cow to the next pasture........And that is exactly what the Venaman/Johanns backed NAIS was promoting for their special interest groups in promoting another huge federal bureaucracy.....

Personal opinion is- that if you don't want to develop a workable ID system- then maybe the rest of the states shouldn't allow them imported- as is the case with many states already.....

 

[wdcook]

wdcook...do you get paid extra for "no hide damage? We brand as our cattle go out on BLM in the summer

I don't know, Yanuck. There are two sale barns within ten miles of me and another fifty miles away that all run an avg of over 1000 hd per wk. and I don't recall EVER seeing a hot branded calf sell.

All I know is that the "experts" tell me unbranded hides have more value than branded ones.

Please do not think that I am against hot branding for those of you that have good reasons for doing it.

My point of this thread is simply to inform those of you that do brand that it will not be a universal solution to ID.

 

[Yanuck]

wdcook...do you get paid extra for "no hide damage? We brand as our cattle go out on BLM in the summer

I don't know, Yanuck. There are two sale barns within ten miles of me and another fifty miles away that all run an avg of over 1000 hd per wk. and I don't recall EVER seeing a hot branded calf sell.

All I know is that the "experts" tell me unbranded hides have more value than branded ones.

Please do not think that I am against hot branding for those of you that have good reasons for doing it.

My point of this thread is simply to inform those of you that do brand that it will not be a universal solution to ID.

The reason I ask about the hides is I have heard the same thing...in alberta and in nebraska, but I've never actually heard of anyone getting extra when the calf was sold as a slick..I agree with you that branding isn't a viable solution at all

 

[phantom]

I have never seen a producer paid anything extra for not branding his cattle. Brands can be solid system to protect a producer as well as financial institutions.

 

[Yanuck]

yes brands can be very useful phantom, but the brand system alone isn't the answer

 

[per]

I tested the slick hide being worth more theory several years ago. I couldn't get anyone to pay anything more on bids or at the market. The risk of loosing a few unidentifiable calves is greater than any perceived pie in the sky premium. We have lost baby calves before until one year we branded at birth. Word must have got out because we haven't lost a baby since.

 

[gcreekrch]

I tested the slick hide being worth more theory several years ago. I couldn't get anyone to pay anything more on bids or at the market. The risk of loosing a few unidentifiable calves is greater than any perceived pie in the sky premium. We have lost baby calves before until one year we branded at birth. Word must have got out because we haven't lost a baby since.

maybe you've been concentrating on that docility trait a little to hard Per.
Time to add Saler. :wink:

Your place would definately lend itself to the crooks that are looking to foster a calf on a cow.
An old friend of ours runs a 1000 cows just north of 100 Mile House BC. Back in the late 70's he was losing calves in the spring and rustlers were butchering up to 30 head a year. The RCMP were not very effective so our friend decided to hire one of the worst little useless crooks in the country. He didn't work this guy hard, hauled him around to the sales, treated him like gold and paid him way over what he was worth. In a short time this hired man started telling stories. Within 6 months the rustling was stopped.
It was another story how he managed to get shut of this little cull and keep him on good terms.

 

[Clarencen]

I don't like brands or branding, and I don't like dehorning. WE do not lke to cause an animale pain. But so far there has never been anything that works better. I brand all my cattle, have ever since I got into the business. I use ear tags too, have since about 1958. First I used the little metal ones, worked alright if you would catch the animal to read it. Then we used the Temple tag, same problem, Temple made one with larger numbers, then Farnum had one you could actually read if you were up close. Tried several for cows, Then came the Richty, first one that really worked. Have used Allflex, now I use the Z-tag.

We were the first to use ear tags in our area, our neighbors laughted at us. Ear tags are good for ranch identification and area identification, but many get lost and can easily be removed. We also tattooed every calf at birth for several years as a backup, but often these were difficult to read.

I believe a good record system that follows cattle as they are moved would be as good as anything. We seldom move a single cow or calf anymore. If we can convince the producer of the importance of this, the ranchers, truckers, and salesbarn people can handle it without the government being involved. Brands and ear tags can be a tool used to help do this, but only a tool.

Several times I have got cattle back, that we may not have found had it not been for either an ear tag or a brand. Two different times the brand inspecter at the sale barn found one of ours that had got into someone elses herd.