• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Why not test Canadian OTM beef?

Help Support Ranchers.net:

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
18,486
Reaction score
0
Location
Nebraska
R-CALF says your meat is diseased, you say it isn't. Why not test it and settle it?
 

SASH

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
567
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern Manitoba
Everytime we tried to test everything, the US told us not to because we are supposedly an integrated North American beef industry and you don't want to test.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
18,486
Reaction score
0
Location
Nebraska
SASH said:
Everytime we tried to test everything, the US told us not to because we are supposedly an integrated North American beef industry and you don't want to test.

Who's country is it? Do you owe us any favors?
 

SASH

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
567
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern Manitoba
You would be surprised what the US does to us when they are pissed off. You know, challenge our wheat board, put tariffs on our softwood lumber, close the border to our beef. You know, that kind of stuff.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
18,486
Reaction score
0
Location
Nebraska
SASH said:
You would be surprised what the US does to us when they are pissed off. You know, challenge our wheat board, put tariffs on our softwood lumber, close the border to our beef. You know, that kind of stuff.

What can we do if you decide to test? The wheat board, tariffs, borders, etc....all that has to do with trade and you're talking about agreements, OIE, WTO, and all that related crap. We have something to cling to - not so with testing. Japan tests their domestic beef, the EU tests, what are we doing to them? You would think you folks in the cooler climes would have a little more hair where it's needed :wink: Get testing! I can't beleive you've got the tool handy that can settle everything, and you won't use it.

Come to think of it, we've got a few folks pointing their finger at us and hollering disease as well. We could settle things out, too.
 

Manitoba_Rancher

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
2,117
Reaction score
0
Location
Canada
Wouldnt it be interesting if both countries were testing everything, wonder who would find the most BSE cases? :???:
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,364
Reaction score
6
Location
With The Herd
Canucks

test everything - stop implants

you get Japan and European markets

what are you waiting for?

BC
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker,

Where is the BSE test for UTM animals that is a reliable depiction of BSE before the animal shows clinical signs of the disease?

What Creekstone was offering was to test cattle with a test that wouldn't reveal anything anyway.

Are you offering the same deception?

Before you can test UTM cattle don't you have to have a reliable test for UTM cattle???

Just parroting the lines again huh?



~SH~
 

rkaiser

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
1,958
Reaction score
0
Location
Calgary Alberta
:D I guarantee that if BSE testing for export markets went to a vote among producers of Canada, the result would be a resounding yes.

Too bad none of this issue involves anything as common sense as that. :roll:
 

Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
28,482
Reaction score
0
Location
Montgomery, Al
Where is the BSE test for UTM animals that is a reliable depiction of BSE before the animal shows clinical signs of the disease?

What Creekstone was offering was to test cattle with a test that wouldn't reveal anything anyway.

Are you offering the same deception?

Before you can test UTM cattle don't you have to have a reliable test for UTM cattle???
~SH~[/quote]

Prionics Check Western/Elisa test would meet the criteria you specify. Can and has detected prions in subclinical animals. It's the one Japan and Europe has found UTM positives with. Instead of the IHC, the USDA is now using these for confirmation of "inconclusives" (by the way, there is no such thing as "inconclusive", it's either positive or negative using rapid tests) the IHC is only as good as the interpretation of the technician(s). Not so "Gold Standard" anymore since new technology and Prionics developed and discovered prion antibodies.
Bio-Rad, the first rapid test approved by the USDA in 2004, was notorious for false positives and was the only one Creekstone could have gotten at the time due to approval by the USDA. EU and UK approved the Prionics test in 2000-2001. They were light years ahead of the USDA in testing methods simply because of the number of cases.
Check Western is being used in all 24 month and older animals in France, Belgium, and other EU countries at this time with complete reliability.
BSE testing and food safety has never been an issue with the USDA and has said so publicly on many occasions. Japan, UK, and EU test not only for food safety reasons but animal health as well. If that's what the consumer and scientists are demanding there is no other choice.
 

rkaiser

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
1,958
Reaction score
0
Location
Calgary Alberta
:D Offer the same deception Mike---------For cripes sake this whole issue is about deception. I don't agree that testing is the truth, but if it opens a door and saves a few Canadian producers, is it wrong.

Testing, or the lack of it has only become part of this game, which has nothing to do with science.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Mike: "Prionics Check Western/Elisa test would meet the criteria you specify. Can and has detected prions in subclinical animals. It's the one Japan and Europe has found UTM positives with."


Three questions Mike....

1. Has this test revealed any positives in animals younger than 20 months of age which most fed cattle would fall under?

2. Is this test approved for use in Canada and the U.S.?

3. What is the cost per head?


All relevant questions to the issue of 100% testing.


Mike: "Bio-Rad, the first rapid test approved by the USDA in 2004, was notorious for false positives and was the only one Creekstone could have gotten at the time due to approval by the USDA."

Perhaps that would be one reason why USDA would not approve it ya think?


Thanks Mike!



~SH~
 

Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
28,482
Reaction score
0
Location
Montgomery, Al
~SH~ said:
Mike: "Prionics Check Western/Elisa test would meet the criteria you specify. Can and has detected prions in subclinical animals. It's the one Japan and Europe has found UTM positives with."
Three questions Mike....

1. Has this test revealed any positives in animals younger than 20 months of age which most fed cattle would fall under?

2. Is this test approved for use in Canada and the U.S.?

3. What is the cost per head?

All relevant questions to the issue of 100% testing.

Mike: "Bio-Rad, the first rapid test approved by the USDA in 2004, was notorious for false positives and was the only one Creekstone could have gotten at the time due to approval by the USDA."

Perhaps that would be one reason why USDA would not approve it ya think?
Thanks Mike!

~SH~

1- I do not know the answer to that question. I am almost positive that 20 months is the earliest an animal has tested positive.
2-Yes it is approved for use in Canada and US. As my previous statement says: It is the one used for confirmation now.
3-Cost per head is more than the Bio-Rad, in the $30 range.

SH:"Perhaps that would be one reason why USDA would not approve it ya think?"

Many wonder why it was approved by the USDA. Others were appoved just weeks later.
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
18,486
Reaction score
0
Location
Nebraska
~SH~ said:
Sandhusker,

Where is the BSE test for UTM animals that is a reliable depiction of BSE before the animal shows clinical signs of the disease?

What Creekstone was offering was to test cattle with a test that wouldn't reveal anything anyway.

Are you offering the same deception?

Before you can test UTM cattle don't you have to have a reliable test for UTM cattle???


~SH~

Just when I decided to give up pig wrestling..... :roll:

SH, "Where is the BSE test for UTM animals that is a reliable depiction of BSE before the animal shows clinical signs of the disease?"

So now you're telling us that an animal has to show clinical signs of the disease before it will test positive?"

SH, "What Creekstone was offering was to test cattle with a test that wouldn't reveal anything anyway.

What Creekstone was offering was what Japan wanted, tested beef, and what the US wanted, an export market" Everybody is happy, except the AMI.

SH, "Are you offering the same deception?

That comment reminds me of our last conversation on "deception". Remember how it went, SH". Let me remind you to save you going back in the achives.

SH, "I don't want to be a part of deception"
Sandhusker, "It's not deception when they are the ones asking for it"
SH, "Testing UTM animals is not based on science"
Sandhusker, "They look at this differently than we do, "science" is not all they're looking at."
SH, "They obviously don't know about the science or they would't be asking for testing".
Sandhusker, "They've been dealing with BSE more than we have. They know more than we do."
SH, "They've obviously been mislead, somebody must of told them something sometime".
Sandhusker, "Your whole deception arguement boils down to "Somebody must of told them something"?

Of course, since I'm an R-CALF member, I'm obviously lying, as that is all any R-CALF member does (that and blaming and deceiving). Feel free to search the archives and post our exact exchange if you feel my paraphrasing is inaccurate. SOMEBODY MUST OF TOLD THEM SOMETHING..... yep that will hold up in court! :lol: :roll: Geeeeeeeze

SH, "Before you can test UTM cattle don't you have to have a reliable test for UTM cattle???"

Does Mike need to prove you ignorant again? Mike, clean up on aisle 3 here!

SH, "Just parroting the lines again huh?"

You should try a little parroting, SH. You solo act holds as much water as a sock. :p
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
SH- I have one question-- You and USDA kept saying that testing under 30 month was not justified under "sound science"... Then answer me this- what is the "sound science" that justifies us taking under 30 month beef from Canada - but at the same time agreeing to send only under 20 month beef to Japan--- Remember this is all about the science- You and USDA have both said we should not use politics or consumer demands on developing trade standards........
 

Jason

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,994
Reaction score
0
Location
Alberta Canada
Broke Cowboy said:
Canucks

test everything - stop implants

you get Japan and European markets

what are you waiting for?

BC

This isn't quite true.

In the midst of all this BSE nonsense, the UK has actually increased the health requirements for animals/embryos being shipped over there.

The new regulations for embryo export state that the dam and sire of the embryos have to test negative for all diseases that live cattle would be required to pass if they were allowed to be exported to the UK.

Last year only 4 bulls passed all the tests. IBR is the big one, it eliminates most of the animals.

The European market is highly protected and a sudden drop of implants, while a step in the right direction, won't magically open access there.

Japan is also highly protected and testing has never been the real issue. Canada and Japan are negotiating a free trade deal. There is a chance Canada will access the Japanese market sooner than the US because of extended talks.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Sandhusker: "So now you're telling us that an animal has to show clinical signs of the disease before it will test positive?"

DIVERTION!!!!


Where is the BSE test that will detect BSE prions in slaughter cattle under 20 months of age?????

WHERE IS IT SANDHUSKER??????

It doesn't exist!!!!!


Facts:

1. BSE prions are not detectable in cattle younger than 20 months of age so testing of cattle under 20 months of age (the bulk of slaughter cattle) is worthless.

2. Japan has moved their position away from 100% testing toward age verification.

3. Sandhusker has offered no proof that the Japanese parliament is willing to take tested beef today from cattle under 20 months of age.


Past this, the rest of your slanted points are moot!



Sandhusker: "Of course, since I'm an R-CALF member, I'm obviously lying, as that is all any R-CALF member does (that and blaming and deceiving)."

Poor, poor little Sandhusker!

PLAY THE VICTIM!



Sandhusker: "You solo act holds as much water as a sock."

Then I fully expect you to offer facts to the contrary of 1-3 above.


Observe....................



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
18,486
Reaction score
0
Location
Nebraska
~SH~ said:
Sandhusker: "So now you're telling us that an animal has to show clinical signs of the disease before it will test positive?"

DIVERTION!!!!


Where is the BSE test that will detect BSE prions in slaughter cattle under 20 months of age?????

WHERE IS IT SANDHUSKER??????

It doesn't exist!!!!!


Facts:

1. BSE prions are not detectable in cattle younger than 20 months of age so testing of cattle under 20 months of age (the bulk of slaughter cattle) is worthless.

2. Japan has moved their position away from 100% testing toward age verification.

3. Sandhusker has offered no proof that the Japanese parliament is willing to take tested beef today from cattle under 20 months of age.


Past this, the rest of your slanted points are moot!



Sandhusker: "Of course, since I'm an R-CALF member, I'm obviously lying, as that is all any R-CALF member does (that and blaming and deceiving)."

Poor, poor little Sandhusker!

PLAY THE VICTIM!



Sandhusker: "You solo act holds as much water as a sock."

Then I fully expect you to offer facts to the contrary of 1-3 above.


Observe....................



~SH~

OH, Lord, here we go again. :roll:

How can I be diverting when I addressed directly your statement? Diverting from what? You paint yourself into a corner and holler "Divertion"? Try "Uncle".

Facts: (according to SH)

1. BSE prions are not detectable in cattle younger than 20 months of age so testing of cattle under 20 months of age (the bulk of slaughter cattle) is worthless.

Logical response; It may be worthless for the sake of detecting prions, but has huge value for the sake of selling beef to the Japanese, and afterall, what puts money in our pockets, finding bugs or selling beef?

2. Japan has moved their position away from 100% testing toward age verification.

Resoponse; Oh really? How much age verified beef have they taken in the last year? You can give me tons or dollar values. How much have they scheduled to take next week, month, or year?

3. Sandhusker has offered no proof that the Japanese parliament is willing to take tested beef today from cattle under 20 months of age.

Response; Nice insertion of the word "parliament", SH. But, I caught it. SH chooses to ignore the fact that Creekstone had negotiated directly with the Japanese, had a contract with them in hand, and felt strongly enough about the deal they had that they invested millions in a BSE testing facility.
But, he needs more proof :?

I rest my case.
 

Latest posts

Top