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Will Obamacare EVER Be Repealed?

Mike

Well-known member
Probably not. The Medicaid provisions stuck in the original Bill will prevent it. The Dems knew when they passed it that you can never give someone something for nothing and then turn around and take it away. Even though the States will be 100% liable for their own Medicaid costs in the future.

Plus the fact that the income taxes on the Cadillac plans taken away appears to be a huge benefit/windfall to the uber wealthy.

The Dem plan towards Universal Single Payer HealthCare by the gov't looks more ominous by the day...............
 

Tam

Well-known member
If the Freedom Caucus thinks they can force the implosion of Obamacare to get what they want and Republicans will NOT pay the price at the polls I think they are playing the wrong hand. There are going to be a lot of people hurt when Obamacare implodes and they are going to vote Democrat to fix the mess IE give them all FREE HEALTHCARE because yesterday the Republicans proved they are still the party of NO. They had 7 years and 4 election cycles to get a bill ready for the Presidents desk and they still screwed it up. When Hollywood is thanking you any Republican elected Congressman or Senator has to know they are not on the right side of the vote.
President Trump needs to get something done and he does not need his own party standing in his friggin way.
 

Mike

Well-known member
The Parliamentarian restricted the way they wanted to go about it this time also. The Dems always seem to weasel around the House & Senate Rules somehow.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Mark Levin said last night that they are so concerned with the entitlement part of health care, they need to concern themselves with the 90% of Americans that can pay their own way; let the insurance companies compete across state lines; citizens need lower insurance premiums. Let the market work, but there are too many 'progressive Republicans' that are afraid of the free market. There are several health insurances that work; I haven't heard it mentioned but I have a friend that worked at Kaiser in California for years--she said they could copy Kaiser's plan; it has been proven to work well and is affordable. South Dakota has a good plan; Newt talked about the man from Kansas who had figured out something good, bring him in and listen to him. What about Rand Paul's plan? He's a Conservative and they won't listen to him. Mark Levin said last night something like "can you imagine the beating the Conservatives are taking? It's all their fault this didn't pass." Well, Mark believes strongly the Conservatives were right to NOT go along with this bill.

What a mess. And I blame the Republicans, because as Tam said, "they had 7 years and 4 election cycles to get a bill to the President's desk". I think Trump thought they had something, or he wouldn't have pushed it. What a lesson for him.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Mike said:
The Parliamentarian restricted the way they wanted to go about it this time also. The Dems always seem to weasel around the House & Senate Rules somehow.

Levin said she (Parliamentarian) wasn't even brought into the discussion.
 

Mike

Well-known member
They have to wait for a "Reconciliation" Bill and attach Health care reform to that.

Besides, Trump stuck his foot in his mouth and made the statement that "no one knew Healthcare was so complicated". The Dems sure did. They made Obamacare as complicated as possible to force it to be basically unreplaceable by the current Rules of the House. They'll have to change the rules like the Dems did...............
 

Tam

Well-known member
Rand Paul would have had his turn to make changes if the Freedom Caucus would have allowed it to be passed on to Senate. But NOPE they had to have 100% of their wants even if it meant the moderate House Republicans were going to bail. NEGOTIATIONS usually mean you done get EVERYTHING you want at the expense of others. Rand Paul's little stunt with his copier was just that a STUNT as the Senate was going to get the bill so they could discuss it and put their changes in. The bill he foolishly went hunting for was the HOUSE BILL NOT THE SENATES.

This mess lays at the feet of PAUL RYAN as he has been the leader that has repealed Obamacare how many times but never had a solid plan to REPLACE IT and he proved that yesterday.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
In 2016, the GOP-controlled Congress passed a clean repeal bill through the reconciliation process. It was sent to Barack Obama, who vetoed it, as CNN reported at the time. In 2017, Rand Paul (R-Ky.) has offered a bill that does many of the same things, as the 2016 legislation. The GOP-controlled House of Representatives on Wednesday afternoon passed legislation that would repeal Obamacare, and after more than 60 votes to roll back all or part of the law, the bill dismantle it will finally get to the President's desk. But it won't stay there long; President Barack Obama has vowed to veto any Republican bill that guts his signature health care law, a five-year-and-counting effort. The vote was 240-181, largely along party lines.

Members of the House Freedom Caucus have time and time again stated that this exact bill is what should be voted on by Congress. Contrary to the Journal and what Quin Hillyer wrote in the Washington Examiner, it isn’t the Freedom Caucus who is being disingenuous. It is Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), and the establishment wing of the Republican Party. These folks were perfectly fine with passing full repeal when they knew President Obama was not going to sign it. Now that they actually have a president that would sign that bill, they are balking at actually repealing the onerous aspects of the law — the regulations. The Freedom Caucus is only asking that the GOP once again pass what they already have.

It’s pretty easy to see who one should truly be disgusted at. It’s not Mark Meadows (R-N.C), and the other members of the Freedom Caucus. It is Paul Ryan and his leadership team, who refuse to offer the bill they already passed in 2016 as the model they would use if they had a president who would sign it.

Ryan now has a president who would sign the 2016 legislation that easily passed in a campaign year as the blueprint for repeal. He refuses to bring it to a vote, lest is show that the GOP campaign promises mean nothing. The Freedom Caucus is absolutely right to insist that the House and Senate do so.

- See more at: https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/03/how-dare-house-freedom-caucus-hold-gop-accountable-to-its-promises#sthash.U17dBj4c.dpuf
 

Tam

Well-known member
Conservative review might be able to say that but if Mark Meadows and the Freedom Caucus had got everything they wanted the moderates that have just as many members would have voted NO they said, as they come from states that are not as safe as some of the Freedom Caucus members. Like I said NEGOTIATION means not everyone get 100% of what they want and I heard reports today saying the Freedom Caucus would ask for one thing, get it and then come back asking for even more. They pushed Trump to the point Moderates were pushing back hard so that is why he said time to vote. When Ryan couldn't get the votes he had to tell Trump it wouldn't pass and Trump told him to pull it.

Ryan needs to take the blame and maybe even step down as he was the one that screwed this up by not setting everyone down in a room and hammering it out BEFORE he put it on the table for a vote. Dems seems to stand behind each other but Republicans stand in a circle and shoot at each other, STUPIDITY. I just hope Trump can get his agenda through as I don't know if he can trust the House leadership after this mess.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Ryan needs to take the blame and maybe even step down as he was the one that screwed this up by not setting everyone down in a room and hammering it out BEFORE he put it on the table for a vote. Dems seems to stand behind each other but Republicans stand in a circle and shoot at each other, STUPIDITY. I just hope Trump can get his agenda through as I don't know if he can trust the House leadership after this mess. :agree:

But truth be told, I don't believe the Freedom Caucus asked for one thing, get it and then come back with something else. The
sources I use say that didn't happen. The FC knew what they wanted all along and they stuck to their guns.

Ryan has proven he is no leader. Watching him is about as bad as watching Obama.
I'm surprised Trump didn't ask him to resign. Sometimes I wonder if Ryan's intention was to sabotage Trump. :???:
I just don't trust him...
 

Traveler

Well-known member
:agree:

Obamacare will continue to disintegrate as designed, as it was intended for their next savior Hillary to have turned it into single payer, so we could all be one with the government.

I have to think there's going to be some bits and pieces type changes, maybe by executive order, to castrate the beast short term anyway.

As far as Trump wanting to get democrap input, these are the morons who admire the Cuban health care system and act like Kim Jong-un when they don't get their way. Don't see how anything of substance is possible.
 

Steve

Well-known member
Mike said:
They have to wait for a "Reconciliation" Bill and attach Health care reform to that.

Besides, Trump stuck his foot in his mouth and made the statement that "no one knew Healthcare was so complicated". The Dems sure did. They made Obamacare as complicated as possible to force it to be basically unreplaceable by the current Rules of the House. They'll have to change the rules like the Dems did...............

I agree and strongly believe this bill was not good as it stood.. the democrats played up on the idea that it was in three phases by ignoring the other two phases.. but then again it was well known by them that the way they structured the bill it would be near impossible to fix.. leaving only repeal..

Time to start slowly gutting it and passing fixes as separate bills
 

Mike

Well-known member
Steve said:
Mike said:
They have to wait for a "Reconciliation" Bill and attach Health care reform to that.

Besides, Trump stuck his foot in his mouth and made the statement that "no one knew Healthcare was so complicated". The Dems sure did. They made Obamacare as complicated as possible to force it to be basically unreplaceable by the current Rules of the House. They'll have to change the rules like the Dems did...............

I agree and strongly believe this bill was not good as it stood.. the democrats played up on the idea that it was in three phases by ignoring the other two phases.. but then again it was well known by them that the way they structured the bill it would be near impossible to fix.. leaving only repeal..

Time to start slowly gutting it and passing fixes as separate bills

Can't be done because it's such a large part of the "Budgetary Process". Precedence has been set by SCOTUS in that bits & pieces cannot be excluded just as they ruled the "Mandate" (every person must buy in) could not be excluded.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Steve said:
Mike said:
They have to wait for a "Reconciliation" Bill and attach Health care reform to that.

Besides, Trump stuck his foot in his mouth and made the statement that "no one knew Healthcare was so complicated". The Dems sure did. They made Obamacare as complicated as possible to force it to be basically unreplaceable by the current Rules of the House. They'll have to change the rules like the Dems did...............

I agree and strongly believe this bill was not good as it stood.. the democrats played up on the idea that it was in three phases by ignoring the other two phases.. but then again it was well known by them that the way they structured the bill it would be near impossible to fix.. leaving only repeal..

Time to start slowly gutting it and passing fixes as separate bills

Can't be done because it's such a large part of the "Budgetary Process". It's almost 1/5 of the total U.S. Economy. Precedence has been set by SCOTUS in that bits & pieces cannot be excluded just as they ruled the "Mandate" (every person must buy in) could not be excluded.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Faster horses said:
But truth be told, I don't believe the Freedom Caucus asked for one thing, get it and then come back with something else. The
sources I use say that didn't happen. The FC knew what they wanted all along and they stuck to their guns. ..

I heard several times of their continued asks and gets and that they pushed the moderates into threatening to say no. Trump tweeted it was the Freedom Caucus that forced the pulling of the plan do to their NO votes they were responsible for Obamacare still being law and Planned Parenthood being funded.

Finally, from Robert Costa, whom President Trump called immediately upon pulling the bill:

What happened with the House Freedom Caucus, the hard-line conservatives he had wooed over and over again?

“Ah, that’s the big question,” Trump said with a slight chuckle. “Don’t know. I have a good relationship with them, but I couldn’t get them. They just wouldn’t do it.”

Trump alluded to long-running, simmering dramas on Capitol Hill, which he said had little to do with him, as a reason the Freedom Caucus could not back the bill.

“Years of hatred and distrust,” he said. “Long before me.”

Was Trump saying, perhaps, that the inability of Ryan and his team to work well with that caucus was part of why talks stalled?

“Well, look, you can say what you want,” Trump said. “But there are years of problems, great hatred and distrust, and, you know, I came into the middle of it.”

“I think they made a mistake, but that’s okay,” Trump said of the Freedom Caucus.

One time Meadows would come out and say looks good, the next he would say well we will see and then he would come out and say they just haven't given us enough to gets us there. The question is just how far is Meadows, Gohment, Jordan willing to go to destroy every law that isn't everything they want like they did with the Repeal and replace, as due to their action Obamacare is still an IMPLODING LAW that is going to hurt a lot of US citizens when it goes down. There will not be a chance to get across border Insurance or Tort reform as that was the third step of this bill. If they would have been smart they would have got part of what they wanted voted yes and let Rand Paul and Mike Lee put is a few more of their wants in during the Senate bill hearings where they are responsible to get enough votes for it to pass. Then when it came back to House vote on their Senate buddies version but NOPE they had to have it all while expecting the moderates to eat their wants and LIKE IT. Will they bend at all to give Trump a victory or will they just stand in Trumps Way. Will they become known as the Caucus of NO within the Governing party, with their stand their ground attitude. They need the MODERATES too and the Freedom Caucus don't seem to give a damn as long as they get what THEY WANT They have to realize that NEGOTIATION means you don't get EVERYTHING you want, Dangerous Dictators get everything they want Congressmen have to give a little for the good of the party and for the President.

It is going to be a long 4 / 8 years if the Freedom Caucus keeps thinking their voters are more important than those in swing states where Moderate Republicans are walking a tight rope to keep their voters happy and not lose their seats to a moderate Democrat.
Nancy Pelosi should be taking the Freedom Caucus out for drinks and Steak Supper as they gave her and her ANTI TRUMP Party a BIG GIFT. Not only is the UN AFFORDABLE CARE ACT still law, Planned Parenthood is still funded but worse Trumps first big leg. bill failed without the Dems having to lift a friggin finger. Shame on Ryan and the Stubborn Freedom Caucus for the action of the last week.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
We are so used to entitlements and therein lies the problem. I am going to copy a couple of paragraphs here that Rep. Krayton Kerns, DVM wrote. It is so close to what Mark Levin said the other night that I was amazed. He wrote this in a publication dated Thursday, March 16, 2017 BEFORE the Health Care vote.

"Congressional Republicans have released their Obamacare repeal and replace plan, and once again I am frozen speechless. Their 123-page bill is mostly amendments, so it's language must be inserted into the original 2,700-page bill to be understood. Doing this much is an insurmountable task, so consider this:

Providing healthcare to citizens is not a necessary and proper function of government, and the GOP plan versus Obamacare is little different than choosing a diet allowing chocolate ice cream over one only allowing strawberry ice cream. Neither will work. When the ruling class decrees something a 'right' and then creates a mechanism to deliver said commodity, the quality of the product plummets as fast as its price skyrockets. Healthcare costs are cheaper, and quality improves ONLY in the free-market arena. Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare and now GOP care all promote dependency and empower the ruling class, and all need replealed.

There, I said it."
Rep. Krayton Kerms DVM
--www.kraytonkerns.org

I am hoping to find what Mark Levin brought up about the sad state of our military on the end of his crtv show; he says we need to stop worrying about healthcare and start worrying about the threats from other countries and how badly Obama decimated our military. He maintains that what Trump is going to ask for is not enough, that amount woud maintain what we have, but it could take a half-trillion dollars to build it back where it needs to be.
 

Tam

Well-known member
Congressman Ted Poe of Texas is on FOX and Friends and he admits the Freedom Caucus was moving the goal posts on Trump and he realized the caucus was never going to say yes so he resigned his membership and planned on voting for the bill as Trump had met with them and dealt in good faith with them and they were still voting NO.

He decided he wanted to be more than the party/caucus of NO.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
The GOP was not prepared. Period. They let the country down. Why did they keep the bill under wraps til the last week? Rand Paul tried to see it and couldn't. Something stinks here.
 

mrj

Well-known member
While I know that there is excellent medical care available in many communities, and our local area with hospital, clinic, assisted and full nursing home at Philip, SD with satellite clinic at Kadoka along with their own nursing home are excellent. BUT they also began as local endeavors built with donations and great support in the area. I was born at Kadoka in 1940 and it was about 40 miles from our ranch. There may have been a hospital in Midland at the time, but, I think no doc. Or maybe it was because my mom could stay with a favorite aunt who lived nearer Kadoka for the last days before my arrival. In any case, that was in the day of dirt trails for most of the rural roads, not even gravel on them, so travel in any but dry weather was difficult, to say the least!

Other 'local' hospitals still are few and far between in West River SD. We feel pretty blessed to live within 30 miles of such a good facility, with, I believe currently there are two or three MD's and one or two Physician Assistants. Great Lab Techs and volunteer staffed Ambulances with EMT's on call in each of the small towns without hospitals. It isn't easy for those volunteers, but they do a great job. My family has needed the ambulance a few times in our nearly 60 years of marriage, and each trip ended well, tho I doubt I've ever been more scared of the speed of a ride than when I had a mild heart attack in the Philip Hosp. and was QUICKLY hauled off to Rapid City Regional Hosp. 90 miles away, a few years ago.

Point: WHY was/is there no systematic method of learning needs and the communities AND the medical professionals, Insurance companies and virtually everyone involved with and/or concerned about medical service, costs, access to insurance, and the 'whole ball of wax' in regard to health care in each state? We who have gone about building our own know that it can be done on a practical, but effective basis. Why does that seem not to be important to our politicians and 'powers that be'????

mrj
 
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