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Will this come back to haunt Clinton?

Steve

Well-known member
Little Big Horn...
To force the large Indian army back to the reservations, the Army dispatched three columns to attack in coordinated fashion, one of which contained Lt. Colonel George Custer and the Seventh Cavalry. Spotting the Sioux village about fifteen miles away along the Rosebud River on June 25, Custer also found a nearby group of about forty warriors. Ignoring orders to wait, he decided to attack before they could alert the main party.Unfortunately (for Custer and his troops), this aggressive action was deeply flawed as a military tactic. First, Custer did not have adequate information (or did not believe it)

The battle was the subject of an army Court of Inquiry

Tactcle Mistake..not Terrorism....


Sand Creek....
Chivington was later denounced in a congressional investigation and forced to resign.

Within weeks, however, a controversy was raised about a possible massacre. Several investigations were conducted, two by the military; and one by the Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War, who declared:

"As to Colonel Chivington, your committee can hardly find fitting terms to describe his conduct. Wearing the uniform of the United States, which should be the emblem of justice and humanity; holding the important position of commander of a military district, and therefore having the honor of the government to that extent in his keeping, he deliberately planned and executed a foul and dastardly massacre which would have disgraced the verist [sic] savage among those who were the victims of his cruelty. Having full knowledge of their friendly character, having himself been instrumental to some extent in placing them in their position of fancied security, he took advantage of their inapprehension and defenceless [sic] condition to gratify the worst passions that ever cursed the heart of man.

"Whatever influence this may have had upon Colonel Chivington, the truth is that he surprised and murdered, in cold blood, the unsuspecting men, women, and children on Sand creek, who had every reason to believe they were under the protection of the United States authorities, and then returned to Denver and boasted of the brave deed he and the men under his command had performed.

"In conclusion, your committee are of the opinion that for the purpose of vindicating the cause of justice and upholding the honor of the nation, prompt and energetic measures should be at once taken to remove from office those who have thus disgraced the government by whom they are employed, and to punish, as their crimes deserve, those who have been guilty of these brutal and cowardly acts."

also against orders.....hmm. grasping are we....

seems if the Men had obeyed orders the outcomes would have been differant and American History would be differant....but the mistakes of the men are not Terroristic, in the they did not hope to change the American Goverment, but instead attacked a percieved enemy with out Mercy....

os ruthless, yes, in fact Chivington was denounced....
 

RoperAB

Well-known member
Boy oh boy thats putting some serious spin on things :roll:
Honestly im wondering if thats what they teach Americans about their own history?
Anyway its like Aplusmnt said, this is 2006. Lets move on.
We hang together or we will all <literally>hang separately.
 

Hanta Yo

Well-known member
Disagreeable said:
Hanta Yo said:
No, the shoe is not on the Dems feet. George W. Bush is the Commander in Chief. He decides when the troops come home; not the Democrats. Anyone who remembers VietNam knows that the Congress tried to cut off funding to force Johnson to bring our troops home. That didn't work; we've got to supply the troops no matter what. This is Bush's war. It will be on him to either finish it or leave it for another president. I think if he doesn't take the opportunity that the Baker Commission will offer him to get out with some dignity, the Republican Party will pay for it big time in 2008.


Dis, IF the DEMS make us turn tail and run out of IRAQ, the US will lose all credibility to the world. I hope, in fact, if we do turn tail and run, terrorists will show up on your doorstep first.

One of the best things about the recent election is that it proved to me that you're in the minority. Comments like this, wishing harm on those you disagree with, are unAmerican and soooo far out of the mainstream, it makes me smile. :)

I just can't resist this, Dis.

What if Al Qaida decides to follow our troops home as we "turn tail and run?" Every troop in IRAQ has signed up, we don't have a draft anymore. What about our troops who believe in what they are doing??? GET A CLUE: OUR SON VOLUNTEERED BECAUSE HE IS PROUD OF HIS COUNTRY AND WANTS TO PROTECT IT AT ALL COSTS!!! ESPECIALLY AGAINST PEOPLE WITH YOUR BELIEFS, AND WANTS TO FIGHT TERRORISM ON THEIR TURF!!! GET A CLUE!!! We have many other kids from our county who not only enlisted but have gone through several tours of IRAQ. What does that say for them? You liberals are going to make what our sons are fighting for a joke. This is just like Viet Nam.

I am editing this post, disagreeable seems to bring out the not nice in me
 

Steve

Well-known member
Boy oh boy thats putting some serious spin on things

Not really,

It was asked how we tolerated terrorists, and a partial defination was given....

the facts of Little big horn, and sand creek do not support the difination of Terrorist....

but allow me to further explain....

first the full defination....I took the first one that showed up in google for fairness.....

Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or persons for political, nationalist, or religious goals. As a type of unconventional warfare, terrorism means to weaken or supplant existing political landscapes through capitulation, acquiescence, or radicalization, as opposed to subversion or direct military action.

Now let me break it down and explain....


Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or Persons
Given a limited defination, this would be true but we would have to ignore the rest of the defination....



by groups or persons for political, nationalist, or religious goals.
The goals of both Custer, and Chivington could be construed as Political of Nationalistic, even religious in Chivington's case if we again ignore the rest of the Defination.....

As a type of unconventional warfare,
Here lies in the problem, the defination starts to go a differant route.....Both Custer and Chivington, used regimented conventional warfare.....



terrorism means to weaken or supplant existing political landscapes through capitulation, acquiescence, or radicalization,
hmm,.... nope that does not seem to be what happened at Little Big Horn, nor Sand Creek.....even if we ignore this "modern part of the current defination,

The indians at Sand Creek had effectively surrendered, it was killing with racial implications only....today it would be termed a hate crime, but not terrorism....

Little Big Horn was acting on Goverment orders while disobeying Military orders....resulting in historic battle that is to today misunderstood...

But lets get back to the rest of the defination...
as opposed to subversion or direct military action.
Direct military action ......Niether Custer, nor Chivington actions could be construed as any thing other then Direct Military......

We may disagree on the merits to American History, but niether fits the defination....of a terrorist..
 

Steve

Well-known member
Honestly im wondering if thats what they teach Americans about their own history?

Maybe I should further "re-explain" a little about me.....

My history was learned at school, from reading and research.....

about some of the schools I went to.....they have humble names.....and when I went some were no more then shacks....

I first went to School in Cherry Creek...which is one "pretty little" town in the southern part of the Cheyenne River reservation......one of my teachers was native American.....I hope she is still well, in fact I plan on trying to contact her this winter...

Then we moved on to Eagle Butte.another quant town albiat slighty larger...

..then.Manderson...(thats right next to Wounded Knee).....

(which I believe kolanuraven was refering Wounded Knee to instead of Little Big horn, )

As a witness to the other modern Wounded Knee.....and it's impact on my views as a child,..one could research my past posts......

But enough of that.....
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Seems like all this webster.com and Googling what Terrorism is is just a waste of time.

Common sense tells us what Terrorism is in today's world. It is when a Muslim extremist puts a razor to a flight attendants throat and cuts it and then hijacks a plane flying it into to public building full of civilians.

It is when a Muslim extremist straps on a bomb and walks into a coffee shop or a Jewish school or a bus.

I say Webster can take a hike. I and most intelligent people today know what a terrorist is. We do not have to Google it or ask our school professor at some Liberal University.

If you want a definition of Terrorist go ask one of the women in NYC that lost their husbands because they had to jump out of the World Trade center to avoid burning to death.

Our soldiers walking around with bulls-eyes in a hot zones like Baghdad do not even come close to resembling the cowardness of these Muslim extremist terrorist.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
kolanuraven said:
She's got a point there X-man....Rep's have had a gay Rep. come " out" about once a week for a few weeks now!! You almost need a ' scoreboard" as Bill Mahr referred to it!

I thought it was funny....but then ,of course I would!!!! :lol: :lol: :wink:

Foley was not only a closet homo, he was a closet Dem. Look at his voting record.
 

kolanuraven

Well-known member
Closet Dem or not.....his little name plate says REPUBLICAN and that's what counts!!!

Amazing how quick you guys throw fellow Rep's under the bus!!!
 

Steve

Well-known member
Amazing how quick you guys throw fellow Rep's under the bus!!!

I would Personnally throw Foley under a Bus......and would have done it quicker then most.....

the fact that Dems tolerated this behavior in thier party and re-elected guys like Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Gerry Studds (D-Mass.),..and Clinton,...whom you all seem to worship...says alot for "your" party.....

Not to mention..Jim McGreevey..Sandy Berger,.....Alcee Lamar Hastings,..Barney Franks,....William Jefferson (D-LA),...James Claude Wright, Jr,...Robert Torricelli (D-NJ),..Must I go On?

because scandle is a Liberal way of life your Amazed that we booted so-called republican Foley to the curb, so quickly, is in itself a testiment to why I am not a liberal.....


What amazes me is that with the help of the liberal media only the republicans scandles were brought to the surface, while the Democrats "hid",..and ignored thier own scandles,,....




[/quote]
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
kolanuraven said:
Amazing how quick you guys throw fellow Rep's under the bus!!!
Yeah, we need to stop that. We should try to be more like you dems and be understanding of a man's transgressions. We should do like you guys and keep them on no matter what they do...

Using coke like Marion Barry

Lying to a federal Grand Jury like Slick Willie

Accepting bribes like William Jefferson

Running male prostitutes like Barney Fag



Well, I don't have time to list them all. Maybe some more members of the vast right-wing conspiracy pack can add a few. :wink:
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
X said:
kolanuraven said:
Amazing how quick you guys throw fellow Rep's under the bus!!!
Yeah, we need to stop that. We should try to be more like you dems and be understanding of a man's transgressions. We should do like you guys and keep them on no matter what they do...

Using coke like Marion Barry

Lying to a federal Grand Jury like Slick Willie

Accepting bribes like William Jefferson

Running male prostitutes like Barney Fag



Well, I don't have time to list them all. Maybe some more members of the vast right-wing conspiracy pack can add a few. :wink:

Dont forget about Democrat Gerry Studds who actually had a homosexual relationship with a 17 year old male Page. Not just sending e-mails to him. Studds never stepped down, he continued as a Congressman. He even recieved ovations and support of fellow Democrats.

If Foley would have just been a Dem then none of this would have even been a problem.
 

Econ101

Well-known member
aplusmnt said:
X said:
kolanuraven said:
Amazing how quick you guys throw fellow Rep's under the bus!!!
Yeah, we need to stop that. We should try to be more like you dems and be understanding of a man's transgressions. We should do like you guys and keep them on no matter what they do...

Using coke like Marion Barry

Lying to a federal Grand Jury like Slick Willie

Accepting bribes like William Jefferson

Running male prostitutes like Barney Fag



Well, I don't have time to list them all. Maybe some more members of the vast right-wing conspiracy pack can add a few. :wink:

Dont forget about Democrat Gerry Studds who actually had a homosexual relationship with a 17 year old male Page. Not just sending e-mails to him. Studds never stepped down, he continued as a Congressman. He even recieved ovations and support of fellow Democrats.

If Foley would have just been a Dem then none of this would have even been a problem.


...and the hope was that republicans wouldn't succumb to their self interests that way too. I was sooooo disappointed. I hope they get it back together and I hope the dems. do a better job at it this time around. If they don't they deserve the same trouncing the republicans took. We need the common denominator to increase for the country's sake.

It is the only way we are going to get DC to clean up---Make them!!
 

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