• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Wolves

Help Support Ranchers.net:

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
.17 cal works real good. It goes all the way through and they are found somewhere else... Not humane, but neither is the work of wolves or coyotes.
I would want something bigger than a .17. The big end of these wolves will go 150 pounds. I want to be absolutely sure that the bullet goes clear through leaving nothing they could trace back.
 

Mountain Cowgirl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
364
Reaction score
350
Location
N.E. Oregon
I would want something bigger than a .17. The big end of these wolves will go 150 pounds. I want to be absolutely sure that the bullet goes clear through leaving nothing they could trace back.
A steel jacket bullet 6 MM or larger is the answer for marauding coyotes and wolves. 8 MM is a nice size for bears especially grizzlies. My dads old K 43 8 MM semi-auto rifle with cartridges loaded for Kodiac grizzly that I inherited was great for coyotes on the run, but after standing in Baker County and ripping off 3 rounds and regaining my senses on my butt in Malheur County, I sold it to my Dad's best friend that was 6' 5" and 270 lbs all muscle.
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,359
Reaction score
857
Location
Western Utah Desert
Y’all be sure that all these hypothetical situations remain exactly hypothetical. I have little doubt that people monitor websites looking for reasons to harass and even prosecute anyone who might claim to think about harming a wolf. It’s basically a religion for some of these radicals. Make sure you do things legally. And remember this is a public site where ANYONE can see what you write. I wish you all well in your never ending battle against eco terrorist’s and an inept government agency who caters to their every wish
 

leanin' H

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,359
Reaction score
857
Location
Western Utah Desert
Remember spotted owls? How about grizzlies or mustangs or sage grouse or desert tortoises? See what they all have in common...... they are instruments in the fight to stop grazing and logging and mineral extraction on private and public lands. These people don’t give a rats hind quarters about wolves. They only care about an agenda which includes destroying rural American families and their livelihoods.
 

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
Believe me I can tell you several stories about the spotted owl and the US fish and wildlife service. I was falling timber back then. On one occasion I had 2 agents show up at my house to question me. When they left I phoned a guy I worked with. He sort of didn't want to talk and finally said they were at his house. I hung up and the phone rang it was another guy calling me to warn me they were coming. Turned out that a total of 14 agents arrived at 7 guys places all at the same time to question us. I am not a biologist. I have no idea what owls I saw if I saw any. And we see wildlife all the time. I never tell anybody (in this case my boss or the timber company). Unless I see a particularly big buck or bull elk. My story and I stuck to it.
No details ever. Keep everything hypothetical on line and even if talking to a friend. The shut up part of SSS is the most important portion. As the DA advised my neighbor, you do have the right to remain silent.
 

Mountain Cowgirl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
364
Reaction score
350
Location
N.E. Oregon
.Just a reminder that Oregon wolves are not protected under the endangered species act, federal or state. They are ONLY protected under the Oregon plan which has been challenged but not fervently enough. When we talk of Spotted owls and even CROWS, etc., they are protected under Federal law, and violation of that law will have the Feds paying you an unpleasant visit.
 

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
yes. East of Hwy 97 if the wolves are harrassing or attacking your livestock you can kill them. That is as long as the critters have the legal right to be there. The other thing is that if you do shoot one the state police are going to be the ones investigating. That is also true even if you have a kill permit. It is not like you load the wolves up and turn them in. You leave everything where it falls and the state police will come investigate.
And just across the river in Idaho there is a bounty on them. The cattlemen's and several sportsman organizations have got together and pay $1,000 per wolf and you get to keep the hide. There are people making a living killing wolves. History does repeat itself.
 

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
Ran into a neighboring rancher at the post office just now. It is up to 4 confirmed kills. They found another one yesterday. It seems this wolf pack have decided it is easier to kill yearling steers than it is to chase down elk. That or they just prefer the taste of beef over elk. That is 4 in 10 days. Something has to get done and it needs to happen now. I think those game dept guys might be getting their ears burnt off the side of their heads. And war is about to erupt around here.
 

Faster horses

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
29,231
Reaction score
449
Location
NE WY at the foot of the Big Horn mountains
Ran into a neighboring rancher at the post office just now. It is up to 4 confirmed kills. They found another one yesterday. It seems this wolf pack have decided it is easier to kill yearling steers than it is to chase down elk. That or they just prefer the taste of beef over elk. That is 4 in 10 days. Something has to get done and it needs to happen now. I think those game dept guys might be getting their ears burnt off the side of their heads. And war is about to erupt around here.
Sounds like it needs to.
Trouble with the game dept guys, so many are not Westerners, but come from the east. I do think that makes a difference, plus what comes down from above.
 

Mountain Cowgirl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
364
Reaction score
350
Location
N.E. Oregon
The problem with the wolf debate is most of the information available is biased and nonfactual. In Oregon, very few know that the native wolf to Eastern Oregon was a small wolf slightly bigger than a coyote with full-grown males weighing 80 lbs. They were more brown than gray and rather scrawny looking. They fed on smaller wildlife, were very shy, seldom seen, and supposedly extinct by the early 1900s when larger wolves more related to the Great Plains wolf (not the Canadian gray) came in and took their food sources and these newcomer wolves supposedly went extinct by 1926. It was possibly a hybrid wolf, a native and Great Plains mix took over and were finally extinct by 1940 or so due to ranchers killing them. even though these were grayer in color, they were still not the same as the Canadian larger gray.

The few surviving of the original smaller native wolf in remote places unknown to wildlife management and most ranchers, disappeared in the 1970s due to the game being depleted from gross Forest mismanagement and forcing the wolves to go lower and kill small livestock which led to their death by flying lead. It was contended by the game specialist and some ranchers that these were coyote and domestic dog hybrid, not wolves since they didn't match the size and savage killing instincts of the larger gray wolf.

They killed to eat, never for sport as the re-introduced Canadian gray does once its belly is full of beef. For more info on wolves' joy killing, read the reports from the Jacob Ranch at Keating 2009 when these imported wolves weighing up to 170 lbs were killing sheep just for fun, and the rubber jaw trapped wolves were drooped off a few miles from the ranch fitted with a radio collar so the Jacobs would be alerted when they returned and could safely corral a band of sheep (yeah right) and /or watch while their sheep were run down and torn apart. They could not shoot at that time due to these imported wolves being on the endangered species list. With a lot of effort and expense to ranchers and taxpayers, that was changed and then the Oregon Wolf Plan was formed with little input from the ranchers being considered.

One kill is too many and imported wolves are not a natural thing and they should all be killed immediately. The people responsible for bringing them in should be working on prison farms pulling weeds. Importing invasive species (the gray wolf) does not fit in the life cycles that are now in play. We cannot live in a modern world and have the forest and rangeland like it was in the time of the American Indian. It is impossible.

The most important point that I always tried to get across is that any wolf advocate should be forced to watch as a well-fed imported Canadian gray wolf pack tears apart their pets, llamas, ponies, goats, colts, urban chickens, etc., and makes their children fear for their lives.

When I was 5 I was lucky to see a wolf-looking dog running at me and I was lucky to climb up a tree and my dad had his rife handy and shot it as it was leaping and snarling at me. The 30 caliber hollow point bullet made a sizable hole in the wolf with guts all over the place. It was a wolf German Sheperd hybrid according to the local game guy. If it had an owner they never came forward. That was back when the authorities would have charged them with endangering human life and a hefty fine as well as a felony charge would be administered.

Wolves serve NO GOOD purpose in Oregon today. If they continue to multiply, then we will see declining numbers of black bears and coyotes which are native species but no wildlife biologist will admit that the wolf is the main reason the bears and coyotes are forced out of their natural habitat now shy of game. I have no sympathy for bears, cougars, or coyotes that become killers of domestic livestock. When these killers go for the easy kill as is domestic livestock and fail to keep the rabbits, flea-ridden rock chucks, and crop-damaging red diggers in check, then time for all these predators to go extinct. You may think I am heartless but I won't kill a bullsnake, even though I HATE snakes, because of their gopher eating and natural crop control.
 
Last edited:

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
Sounds like it needs to.
Trouble with the game dept guys, so many are not Westerners, but come from the east. I do think that makes a difference, plus what comes down from above.
No matter which side of the country they come from the majority of game dept people are city people desk jockeys. The only knowledge they have of wildlife and the real outdoor world came from a book.

All the paper work has been turned in. They think (hope) they will get their kill permit today. I think they are leaning toward shooting the two alphas. The youngsters will disperse and with any luck at all they will winter kill. If nothing else those young wolves aren't capable of killing a cow.
 

Nicky

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
3,230
Reaction score
121
Location
N.E. Oregon
The problem with the wolf debate is most of the information available is biased and nonfactual. In Oregon, very few know that the native wolf to Eastern Oregon was a small wolf slightly bigger than a coyote with full-grown males weighing 80 lbs. They were more brown than gray and rather scrawny looking. They fed on smaller wildlife, were very shy, seldom seen, and supposedly extinct by the early 1900s when larger wolves more related to the Great Plains wolf (not the Canadian gray) came in and took their food sources and these newcomer wolves supposedly went extinct by 1926. It was possibly a hybrid wolf, a native and Great Plains mix took over and were finally extinct by 1940 or so due to ranchers killing them. even though these were grayer in color, they were still not the same as the Canadian larger gray.

The few surviving of the original smaller native wolf in remote places unknown to wildlife management and most ranchers, disappeared in the 1970s due to the game being depleted from gross Forest mismanagement and forcing the wolves to go lower and kill small livestock which led to their death by flying lead. It was contended by the game specialist and some ranchers that these were coyote and domestic dog hybrid, not wolves since they didn't match the size and savage killing instincts of the larger gray wolf.

They killed to eat, never for sport as the re-introduced Canadian gray does once its belly is full of beef. For more info on wolves' joy killing, read the reports from the Jacob Ranch at Keating 2009 when these imported wolves weighing up to 170 lbs were killing sheep just for fun, and the rubber jaw trapped wolves were drooped off a few miles from the ranch fitted with a radio collar so the Jacobs would be alerted when they returned and could safely corral a band of sheep (yeah right) and /or watch while their sheep were run down and torn apart. They could not shoot at that time due to these imported wolves being on the endangered species list. With a lot of effort and expense to ranchers and taxpayers, that was changed and then the Oregon Wolf Plan was formed with little input from the ranchers being considered.

One kill is too many and imported wolves are not a natural thing and they should all be killed immediately. The people responsible for bringing them in should be working on prison farms pulling weeds. Importing invasive species (the gray wolf) does not fit in the life cycles that are now in play. We cannot live in a modern world and have the forest and rangeland like it was in the time of the American Indian. It is impossible.

The most important point that I always tried to get across is that any wolf advocate should be forced to watch as a well-fed imported Canadian gray wolf pack tears apart their pets, llamas, ponies, goats, colts, urban chickens, etc., and makes their children fear for their lives.

When I was 5 I was lucky to see a wolf-looking dog running at me and I was lucky to climb up a tree and my dad had his rife handy and shot it as it was leaping and snarling at me. The 30 caliber hollow point bullet made a sizable hole in the wolf with guts all over the place. It was a wolf German Sheperd hybrid according to the local game guy. If it had an owner they never came forward. That was back when the authorities would have charged them with endangering human life and a hefty fine as well as a felony charge would be administered.

Wolves serve NO GOOD purpose in Oregon today. If they continue to multiply, then we will see declining numbers of black bears and coyotes which are native species but no wildlife biologist will admit that the wolf is the main reason the bears and coyotes are forced out of their natural habitat now shy of game. I have no sympathy for bears, cougars, or coyotes that become killers of domestic livestock. When these killers go for the easy kill as is domestic livestock and fail to keep the rabbits, flea-ridden rock chucks, and crop-damaging red diggers in check, then time for all these predators to go extinct. You may think I am heartless but I won't kill a bullsnake, even though I HATE snakes, because of their gopher eating and natural crop control.
Well said!
 

gcreekrch

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
11,453
Reaction score
185
Location
west chilcotin bc
No matter which side of the country they come from the majority of game dept people are city people desk jockeys. The only knowledge they have of wildlife and the real outdoor world came from a book.

All the paper work has been turned in. They think (hope) they will get their kill permit today. I think they are leaning toward shooting the two alphas. The youngsters will disperse and with any luck at all they will winter kill. If nothing else those young wolves aren't capable of killing a cow.
Yes, take out the alphas and the rest will disperse. Next year you will have four packs there. Kill the whole pack to do any good. The younger already know beef is good.
 

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
There kill permit allows 4 wolves but does not allow killing the alphas. They haven't been able to get them yet.
 

damengineer

Well-known member
Supporting member
Joined
Jul 24, 2021
Messages
120
Reaction score
69
Location
Central OK
We don't have the problem of wolves down here in OK. Enough coyote/dog crosses for target practice. How do you tell the Alpha from the others? Does he wear a badge or a special collar from the Gov't??
 

webfoot

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
565
Reaction score
603
Location
NE Oregon
We don't have the problem of wolves down here in OK. Enough coyote/dog crosses for target practice. How do you tell the Alpha from the others? Does he wear a badge or a special collar from the Gov't??
Actually in this case both the alpha male and female are collared. They are considerably bigger than the pups and also bigger than the 2 yearlings.
 

Mountain Cowgirl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2021
Messages
364
Reaction score
350
Location
N.E. Oregon
We don't have the problem of wolves down here in OK. Enough coyote/dog crosses for target practice. How do you tell the Alpha from the others? Does he wear a badge or a special collar from the Gov't??
All alpha means is dominant and leader. They display a different body language than the followers. Wolf packs in the wild are family units with the parents as the leaders. The use of the word alpha to describe wolf pack parent leaders, started in 1947. It is more appropriate for wolves in captivity that are not a family unit and leadership is being established.

When I was a kid and sold fertile eggs that customers paid more for, I wish I had known to call my rooster the Alpha male instead of the Big Daddy rooster. I could have charged another dime a dozen.
 

Latest posts

Top