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Would you buy a twin bull?

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starvin'dog

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Got one bought today on order, quite a bit under sale average. His individual performance is just ok, was a twin. Epd's pretty good, 3.9,60.2,91.9,20.7.
Horned Hereford.
Do you think a p.m. would reach NR? I'd enjoy his opinion.
 

RSL

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You're buying the DNA that bull contains. As long as he passes a semen test and carries (and can deliver) the genetics you want why not use a twin? I might skip on using his twin sister :p
 

starvin'dog

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I was wondering if he'd have a propensity to throw twins.
I remember a while back in a stud book you could buy semen on "beef twinner" bulls.
I don't offer my cows a high level of management at calving so prefer a single calf.
 

Bent C Angus

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starvin'dog said:
Got one bought today on order, quite a bit under sale average. His individual performance is just ok, was a twin. Epd's pretty good, 3.9,60.2,91.9,20.7.
Horned Hereford.
Do you think a p.m. would reach NR? I'd enjoy his opinion.

A twin bull won't throw more twins than the breed average, but his daughters will. Thats where you have to be careful (if your worried about it)

And I didn't know NR well, I'm recent to Ranchers but he passed away this last week. The few discussions I had with him sure were good ones though.

BenT C
 

jingo2

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starvin'dog said:
I was wondering if he'd have a propensity to throw twins.
I remember a while back in a stud book you could buy semen on "beef twinner" bulls.
I don't offer my cows a high level of management at calving so prefer a single calf.


Take an anatomy class................
 

WVGenetics

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jingo2 said:
starvin'dog said:
I was wondering if he'd have a propensity to throw twins.
I remember a while back in a stud book you could buy semen on "beef twinner" bulls.
I don't offer my cows a high level of management at calving so prefer a single calf.


Take an anatomy class................

Jingo, I have only been a part of ranchers for around a year but it seems that every time you make a comment on someone's post (at least recently) it comes across with the tone of an arrogant ass!

May I suggest the children's adage..."If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!"

I apologize for interrupting this thread.

WV
 

jingo2

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WVGenetics said:
jingo2 said:
starvin'dog said:
I was wondering if he'd have a propensity to throw twins.
I remember a while back in a stud book you could buy semen on "beef twinner" bulls.
I don't offer my cows a high level of management at calving so prefer a single calf.


Take an anatomy class................

Jingo, I have only been a part of ranchers for around a year but it seems that every time you make a comment on someone's post (at least recently) it comes across with the tone of an arrogant ass!

May I suggest the children's adage..."If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!"

I apologize for interrupting this thread.

WV


So, you have a problem with education then?

WV....West Virginia, makes sense now.
 

Larrry

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jingo2 said:
WVGenetics said:
jingo2 said:
Take an anatomy class................

Jingo, I have only been a part of ranchers for around a year but it seems that every time you make a comment on someone's post (at least recently) it comes across with the tone of an arrogant ass!

May I suggest the children's adage..."If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!"

I apologize for interrupting this thread.

WV


So, you have a problem with education then?

WV....West Virginia, makes sense now.

See she did it again
 

ANGUS327

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I bought a set of Sitz Alliance bull calves about 5 years ago and don't have any more twins born that before. The only problem was they would gang up as a team and fight the other bulls, broke the back legs on 3 of them before I figured out what was happening.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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jingo2 said:
WVGenetics said:
jingo2 said:
Take an anatomy class................

Jingo, I have only been a part of ranchers for around a year but it seems that every time you make a comment on someone's post (at least recently) it comes across with the tone of an arrogant ass!

May I suggest the children's adage..."If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!"

I apologize for interrupting this thread.

WV


So, you have a problem with education then?

WV....West Virginia, makes sense now.

Maybe you have the problem with education Jingo. :roll:

If you want to learn about how traits such as twinning occurs it would be a genetics class you would take. :D :D
 

WVGenetics

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jingo2 said:
WVGenetics said:
jingo2 said:
Take an anatomy class................

Jingo, I have only been a part of ranchers for around a year but it seems that every time you make a comment on someone's post (at least recently) it comes across with the tone of an arrogant ass!

May I suggest the children's adage..."If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!"

I apologize for interrupting this thread.

WV


So, you have a problem with education then?

WV....West Virginia, makes sense now.

Your stereotypical response (Yes we hillbillies can spell words that big for y'all educated folks!) should have been expected. Education is only valuable for those who wish to learn but since you must already know it all...there is nothing more to say.

Again, I apologize for hijacking this thread.
 

Roundup

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A human male carrying the "hyperovulation gene" could have influence on future twinning by passing it to his daughters.

Most twins are the result of hyperovulation, which means more than one egg is released for fertilization, they are not identical.

Occasionally, only one egg is released and it splits after fertilization and this may result in identical twins.

Twinning is far more complex than this. The point is, a sire can carry the hyperovulation gene and influence twinning in his daughters. This should be considered when adding bulls into the herd that are twins. They will not influence twinning in the unrelated cattle they breed, but they may in the daughters they help create.
 

Denny

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The guys who have alot of twins in their herds are also the same guys who feed very very well.I think nutrition plays a bigger part than genetics.
 

Howdy1

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Interesting. This year I bought a bull that was a twin. I would love for him to pass that on to his daughters. I love twins. I always seem to have a need for that extra calf.

For Jingo, I took a whole semester on genetics at a four year school and they never covered anything like this. So sometimes places like these are excellent places to learn more material. Everything might not be correct but it gets a person thinking and it encourages me to learn more for myself.

Go back into the hole in which you came.
 

George

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After reading this thread I'm going to try to buy / and / or keep back a twin bull as with the quality of pasture here the cows have no problem with twins so I love them.

I understand how the pastures where the cows have to work much harder would not like twins.
 

littlejoe

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Two thoughts I've heard from quite experience ranchers over the years that left me puzzled, pondering and perplexed:

--That a bull born a twin might throw more twins---What, they don't think the 500,000 or 1,000,000 or however many individual sperm there are in a straw of semen is adequate to fertilize however many eggs are prescent?

And ---A bull will throw bigger calves as he gets older----they think his genetics change/evolve with time and size, or what?

For WV: Hey--you got any good 'shine? Got any good feuds going? Is that kid who played the banjo in 'Deliverance' in your neighborhood? :lol: :lol:
 

George

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Roundup said:
A human male carrying the "hyperovulation gene" could have influence on future twinning by passing it to his daughters.

Most twins are the result of hyperovulation, which means more than one egg is released for fertilization, they are not identical.

Occasionally, only one egg is released and it splits after fertilization and this may result in identical twins.

Twinning is far more complex than this. The point is, a sire can carry the hyperovulation gene and influence twinning in his daughters. This should be considered when adding bulls into the herd that are twins. They will not influence twinning in the unrelated cattle they breed, but they may in the daughters they help create.

If there is a chance this is true it might prove interesting - - - I know it will be a few years down the road but I think I would like to see what happens - - - If I get no more tiwns than normall so be it.
 

tumbleweed_texn

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I had this very discussion the other day with a friend in Tx who is having hell with some Camp Cooley cattle that he bought who are throwing an unusually high number of twins.

In order for twinning to happen, a cow has two produce more than one viable egg, or the original egg splits. If multiple eggs are produced, you have fraternal twins (non-identical). If an egg splits you wind up with identical twins.

A herdsire, be it a bull, stud, buck or whatever will produce millions of sperm cells all fighting to be the first to reach the egg. Once a sperm cell fertilizes the egg, other or more sperm cells cant keep fertilizing to produce more offspring. One egg equals one offspring unless the egg splits during gestation. It is believed that twins are passed on through paternal rather than maternal genetics.

This man was having trouble with twins being born this years calf crop and was blaming it on the bulls that sired the calves. In actuality, his blame is misplaced and it is most likely the fault of the sire or sires of the cows. The bull determines the sex of the offspring, but the cow and number of eggs she produces, determines the number.

Keep in mind, I learned this over 20 years ago in college and I am sure that better research has been done since then.

Tex
 

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