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Zer0 To Force Israel To Give Up Nukes?

Mike

Well-known member
Obama to force Israel to give up nukes?
Hotair ^ | 5/6/2009 | Ed Morrisey


The Washington Times reports that Barack Obama may counter demands from Israel to confront Iran over their nuclear program by confronting Israel over theirs. Eli Lake has the exclusive on the Obama administration’s strategy to force Israel under the umbrella of the non-proliferation treaty, apparently as a condition to getting Iran to surrender their nukes. The effort will include India and Pakistan, and comes from a 2006 Saudi peace plan that would leave Israel at the mercy of the armies surrounding the state:

"President Obama’s efforts to curb the spread of nuclear weapons threaten to expose and derail a 40-year-old secret U.S. agreement to shield Israel’s nuclear weapons from international scrutiny, former and current U.S. and Israeli officials and nuclear specialists say."

The issue will likely come to a head when Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu meets with Mr. Obama on May 18 in Washington. Mr. Netanyahu is expected to seek assurances from Mr. Obama that he will uphold the U.S. commitment and will not trade Israeli nuclear concessions for Iranian ones.

Assistant Secretary of State Rose Gottemoeller, speaking Tuesday at a U.N. meeting on the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), said Israel should join the treaty, which would require Israel to declare and relinquish its nuclear arsenal.

Gottemoeller has a track record of demanding Israeli disarmament:

" However, Ms. Gottemoeller endorsed the concept of a nuclear-free Middle East in a 2005 paper that she co-authored, “Universal Compliance: A Strategy for Nuclear Security.”

“Instead of defensively trying to ignore Israels nuclear status, the United States and Israel should proactively call for regional dialogue to specify the conditions necessary to achieve a zone free of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons,” she wrote.

The paper recommends that Israel take steps to disarm in exchange for its neighbors getting rid of chemical and biological weapons programs as well as Iran forgoing uranium enrichment.

The Obama administration appointed Gottemoeller, fully cognizant of her thinking on this issue. One has to assume that her appointment to the senior position at State constitutes an endorsement of those positions. It wouldn’t be the most radical thinking about Israel from this administration; Samantha Powers, who works between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and UN Ambassador Susan Rice, once called for a Western occupation of Israel and forced disarmament of their entire army.

Gottemoeller’s speech had to have been cleared by the Obama administration, and so appears to represent their foreign-policy position. The Bush administration and its predecessors handled the situation more tactfully, supporting a “nuclear-free Middle East” without naming names. Why? The position of Israel in the Middle East is unique. They are not just simply another nation among many. They had been the one successful continuous democracy in that region, save Turkey, and quite obviously surrounded by nations explicitly threatening to annihilate them. Israel had to develop a deterrent that would keep a nation of 5 million people alive among 100 million enemies.

Over the years, some of those neighbors have moderated their stance somewhat towards Israel; Egypt and Jordan have diplomatic relations with Israel, but in Egypt’s case only because Washington pays them to do it. None of the rest of the nations in that region even recognize Israel’s existence, and two of them — Syria and Iran — have a long-running proxy war of terror running against Israel. Under those conditions, Israel can be forgiven for thinking that a deterrent is still a damned good idea.

Besides, the Iranian nuclear program threatens the US as well. We want to stop Iran from building nukes to keep them out of the hands of terrorists, and not just those aimed at Israel. They don’t call us the Great Satan out of respect, after all, and Iranian leadership has been just as annihilationist towards America as it has been towards Israel. Instead of disarming our allies, maybe we should just concentrate on disarming our enemies.
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
Make me smile.

Above all - this will not happen

Security and destruction of the neighbours if required is all that keeps this place fairly calm.

If this happens I will be very surprized - and anyone thinking Obama carries a lot of weight here - well, that weight has gone on a serious diet.

Not in my life time folks

Istael is not a push over and never will be

I want to see Obama do this - how do you guarantee safety here - the general electorate will crucify any politician here who bows that low to Obama

BC
 

Texan

Well-known member
Broke Cowboy said:
...the general electorate will crucify any politician here who bows that low to Obama
The people there sound pretty savvy. The general electorate here still doesn't realize that Obama is treating them like fools. Or else, they're like some on here - they probably realize it, they just refuse to admit it.
 

Mike

Well-known member
Zer0 Quote:
"America must lead a global effort to secure all nuclear weapons and material at vulnerable sites within four years... This will require the active cooperation of Russia... We must also work with Russia to update and scale back our dangerously outdated Cold War nuclear postures and de-emphasize the role of nuclear weapons. America must not rush to produce a new generation of nuclear warheads. And we should take advantage of recent technological advances to build bipartisan consensus behind ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty... I will work to negotiate a verifiable global ban on the production of new nuclear weapons material."
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Barack Obama Proves His Anti-Semitism
Ben Shapiro
Wednesday, May 06, 2009

One hundred days into Barack Obama's presidency, he demonstrated cowardice abroad and demagogic tyranny at home. On the 105th day of his presidency, he demonstrated his clear-cut anti-Semitism.

On Monday, Rahm Emanuel, the president's hatchet man, delivered a message to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. According to the Jerusalem Post, Emanuel stated, "Thwarting Iran's nuclear program is conditional on progress in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians." The message is clear: America will bar any action against Iran unless Israel makes concessions to the Palestinian Arab thugs who seek to eviscerate all Jewish presence east of the Mediterranean.

Emanuel isn't the first Obama lackey to link American opposition to Iran with Israeli concessions. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Congress, "For Israel to get the kind of strong support it's looking for vis-a-vis Iran, it can't stay on the sidelines with respect to the Palestinians and the peace efforts." The two issues -- Iranian nuclear development and the Israeli-Arab conflict -- "go hand in hand."

This is pure nonsense. The Iranian nuclear program threatens not only Israel, but U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, the government of Turkey, the government of Saudi Arabia, and the territory of Eastern Europe. Iran's centrifuges make it a regional power, able to leverage its calculated irrationality into fearful appeasement by the West. America's interest in the Iranian nuclear program has nothing to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict.

The Obama administration knows this. They simply don't care. Their position is clear: America's ally, Israel, is no longer valuable. Sacrificing it in order to win Obama global popularity points is a worthwhile pursuit. The Obama administration offers Israel a choice between being a victim of suicide via territorial concessions to the Palestinian Arabs, or a victim of homicide via Iran. And the Obama administration forces that choice so that Obama can smile and wave at cheering throngs of Jew-hating maniacs who populate the Muslim world.

This is anti-Semitism at its finest. Not even in the heyday of the Carter administration did such anti-Semitism find expression in American foreign policy.

Obama's defenders no doubt scoff at such accusations.

Obama, the Man of Tolerance, an anti-Semite?

Yes. An anti-Semite.

Obama's attitude toward Israel demonstrates his belief that the Jews should be held to a higher standard than any other nation -- the standard of unrelenting surrender. Take, by contrast, Obama's attitude toward the Pakistani government. The Pakistani government recently conceded the Swat Valley to the Taliban. The Obama administration opposed Pakistan's concessions.

"I have expressed my concern and confusion about what happened," fumed Ambassador to Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke. "(T)he chief spokesman of the Taliban in the Swat area publicly renounced the part of the deal in which they're supposed to lay down their arms. And it seems to me that that ought to be a wakeup call to everybody in Pakistan that you can't deal with these people by giving away territory as they creep closer and closer to the populated centers of the Punjab and Islamabad. They're less than 100 miles from Islamabad after this deal ... And I am concerned at the growing risk that you'll have more terrorist attacks in Lahore and Islamabad, perhaps in Karachi."

Obama is concerned when a Muslim state populated by radical Muslim sympathizers makes territorial concessions to those radical Muslim sympathizers. He is concerned that those Muslim terrorists will be within 100 miles of a Muslim capital. And he is worried that Muslim terrorist attacks on Muslims will escalate.

Yet Obama advocates for territorial concessions by Jews to radical Muslims. He presses Jews to hand over territory not 100 miles from the capital, but constituting half the capital itself. He knows that each time Israel has made territorial concessions, Muslim terrorists have upped the ante -- most recently in both Lebanon and the Gaza Strip. And he knows that the Palestinian Arabs have never and will never lay down their arms. Yet he threatens Israel with allowing its nuclear annihilation if Israel refuses to authorize euthanasia.

During the election campaign, I wrote that Obama was "the most dangerous candidate for the state of Israel since its creation in 1948." I wrote, "Any American Jew who votes for Obama ought to be ashamed of him or herself." My words were not strong enough. Any Jew who continues to support Obama's foreign policy should turn in his badge as a Jew -- that means you, Rahm Emanuel. And all Americans who support Israel must stand up against a president who values the genocidal murderers in Muslim lands over our democratic allies in the Jewish State.

http://townhall.com/Columnists/BenShapiro/2009/05/06/barack_obama_proves_his_anti-semitism
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
I am aware of Obama and his quotes.

250,000,000 muslim people - or thereabouts - border on Israel - a country of 7,400,000 people.

All those folks chat "death to Israel" on a daily basis.

If you were a Jew - what would it take for YOU to give up any nukes - if indeed you have them. Never officially acknowledged so I will go that route.

What would it take?

I have an answer if I was a Jew - do you?

My answer - F**k you!

No one but Israel can guarantee their security.

Your answer?

BC
 

Mike

Well-known member
Your answer?

I would "use 'em" before I "lose 'em". :wink:

But if Zer0 allows Israel to go away into oblivion, he thinks the Muslims will follow him like lemmings.

BeBe will be meeting with Zer0 on the 18th of May. We'll see where that goes.
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
I have an answer if I was a Jew - do you?

My answer - F**k you!

No one but Israel can guarantee their security.

Your answer?

BC

You got that right...and then they need to turn West and say that to Barracko and all his followers.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
He's sitting somewhere on the Golan Heights keeping peace, which is like sitting in North Dakota. Not exactly the same as being a U.S. diplomat talking with the leaders of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel and having access to deep insight into these complex countries. It's easy to simplify.

Israel gave back land for peace to Syria and the peace is holding. Israel gave back land for peace with Egypt and the peace is holding.

The trend in that area endangers both the Arab countries (witness Lebanon) and Israel. Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah are bad for the countries / Palestine Authority and there are plenty of their leaders who are painfully aware of that.

It makes lot of sense to find ways to defuse the Palestinian, Egyptian, and Lebanese fundamental movements and strengthen the secular leaders and their nations. The Israelis recognize this too and have been back channeling via Turkey with Syria. And have held off and on peace talks with the Palestinians.

BC should speak to your insult of him personally, but your level of respect for those that wear the blue helmets is a disgrace to all those that have lost their lives being "peace keepers"

I'm pretty sure the peacekeepers have never had to pick up dead infants in North Dakota, or sit idly by while they watch the Jewish people mop up after a "man-made disaster".
 

TexasBred

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
He's sitting somewhere on the Golan Heights keeping peace, which is like sitting in North Dakota. Not exactly the same as being a U.S. diplomat talking with the leaders of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel and having access to deep insight into these complex countries. It's easy to simplify.

Israel gave back land for peace to Syria and the peace is holding. Israel gave back land for peace with Egypt and the peace is holding.

The trend in that area endangers both the Arab countries (witness Lebanon) and Israel. Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah are bad for the countries / Palestine Authority and there are plenty of their leaders who are painfully aware of that.

It makes lot of sense to find ways to defuse the Palestinian, Egyptian, and Lebanese fundamental movements and strengthen the secular leaders and their nations. The Israelis recognize this too and have been back channeling via Turkey with Syria. And have held off and on peace talks with the Palestinians.

Yeah Israel gave up a little land but they are sick and tire of it...especially the West Bank....Egypt and Syria are still licking their wounds from the last time they picked a fight with Israel...the last thing they want is another one.
 

Yanuck

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
He's sitting somewhere on the Golan Heights keeping peace, which is like sitting in North Dakota. Not exactly the same as being a U.S. diplomat talking with the leaders of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel and having access to deep insight into these complex countries. It's easy to simplify.

Israel gave back land for peace to Syria and the peace is holding. Israel gave back land for peace with Egypt and the peace is holding.

The trend in that area endangers both the Arab countries (witness Lebanon) and Israel. Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah are bad for the countries / Palestine Authority and there are plenty of their leaders who are painfully aware of that.

It makes lot of sense to find ways to defuse the Palestinian, Egyptian, and Lebanese fundamental movements and strengthen the secular leaders and their nations. The Israelis recognize this too and have been back channeling via Turkey with Syria. And have held off and on peace talks with the Palestinians.

I'm sure he rather be sitting in his living room with his wife and kids, but he's not, he's over there, and I would dare say in more contact with real people than you, as you sit in your house, insulting him.....nice... real nice :? :???:
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
Yanuck said:
reader (the Second) said:
He's sitting somewhere on the Golan Heights keeping peace, which is like sitting in North Dakota. Not exactly the same as being a U.S. diplomat talking with the leaders of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Israel and having access to deep insight into these complex countries. It's easy to simplify.

Israel gave back land for peace to Syria and the peace is holding. Israel gave back land for peace with Egypt and the peace is holding.

The trend in that area endangers both the Arab countries (witness Lebanon) and Israel. Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah are bad for the countries / Palestine Authority and there are plenty of their leaders who are painfully aware of that.

It makes lot of sense to find ways to defuse the Palestinian, Egyptian, and Lebanese fundamental movements and strengthen the secular leaders and their nations. The Israelis recognize this too and have been back channeling via Turkey with Syria. And have held off and on peace talks with the Palestinians.

I'm sure he rather be sitting in his living room with his wife and kids, but he's not, he's over there, and I would dare say in more contact with real people than you, as you sit in your house, insulting him.....nice... real nice :? :???:

As soon as the U.S. leaves Iraq, Israel can refuel their planes over Iraq without the U.S. having to turn their heads. They cannot do it presently. Iran will be their target. Bush knew it and now Obama knows it. We will then be on our way for global unrest like this generation has not seen.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
Could that be why Iran is being allowed into Iraq air space for the first time in years?

It's almost like an eventual showdown is being allowed to happen.
 

backhoeboogie

Well-known member
hypocritexposer said:
Could that be why Iran is being allowed into Iraq air space for the first time in years?

It's almost like an eventual showdown is being allowed to happen.

I'll ask the person who would know.
 

hypocritexposer

Well-known member
What is insulting about this? You just read hypocrite's response and jumped into the fray without considering what my post actually said.

Right now Mrs. Greg I am thinking of having a sandwich, you better have one too. It is obvious you do not have the mental discipline to think for yourself. :roll: :roll:
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
Mrs.Greg said:
Reader,reader,reader.....bad, bad, bad....Not nice to disrespect "our" soldiers like that...GRRRRRRRR :evil:

Golan Heights is the middle of nowhere.

BC is neither an Arabist nor a diplomat.

I spent 20 years studying Arabic and Islamic History, reading Arabic newspapers, talking to people from all over the Middle East and interacting with Israeli senior leaders at the same time.

I did not dishonor what BC is doing, I simply questioned his being in a position to know what the entire Arab populace but especially the leaders of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt are thinking and doing behind the scenes.

What is insulting about this? You just read hypocrite's response and jumped into the fray without considering what my post actually said.
I can read,I read what YOU wrote. It was disrespectful. Something I cannot go is disrespect for "our' soldiers...either country. You obviously know nothing about peace keeping to make such a misinformed statement like you did. I believe you owe Broke Cowboy an apology.....and I'll make sure he gets one.... :) You think Sandhuskers annoying,you haven't seen anything...I learned the art of badgering from Sandy,and perfected it :wink:


now I'm going to make a sandwich..... :p
 

Mrs.Greg

Well-known member
reader (the Second) said:
I'll go back and re-read but I think you should too, with a more objective mindset.

I think all three of you were overly sensitive because I was in no way disrespecting Canadian soldiers involved in peace keeping or any other type of service. Does someone being in the military mean I cannot disagree with their point of view and say so?

While I understand why Canadians are proud of their military, I did not say anything about his service or your military.

You guys know cows. I have several degrees in Middle Eastern studies but more importantly have spent 40 years interacting in the native languages with Middle Easterners, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze, including people who show up in the political articles in the Israeli press.

How much do you know about the Golan Heights? Where it is? Who lives there? What it looks like? I have had friends who settled there since 1969, including friends who were killed there by terrorists.

And all the whiners and personal insulters can jump all over me for having Israeli and Arab friends and knowing something about the Middle East. Big deal.

No disrespect to you, BC, or Yanuck.

As for hypocrite, he's bored and likes to foment. Glad I made his evening for him.
Reader,my issue had NOTHING to do with hypo.You'd think by now you'd get I don't follow packs or parties,I follow my own beliefs. I read & reread what you wrote and IMHO it was meant to be nasty to BC.

I don't care and think its Kool you have friends Arab & Israeli,my issue was your disrespecting BC and the job hes doing.I find it hard to believe hes less informed then any US Diplomat or Canadian diplomat for that matter.

no disrespect? Is that the same as Sorry? Oh and reader this isn't just about BC its about both our countries "boys& Girls" NEVER should they be shown disrespect,I thought you guys learned that lesson after Vietnam
 

Broke Cowboy

Well-known member
Relax folks

I am on the coal face on a stable front line - I have never said anything differently - I am on a one year - now probably extended to two year - unacommpanied tour of duty. If I go home this summer I already know I am to go to Afghanistan in the following March

Our existence here can be austere and we do have times when food and drink of any quality are hard to find - but it is a very challengng and enjoyable job.

We only lose people over here about once every two years to three years - Israelis killed the last Canadian here about three years ago. Actually a pretty high death rate when you consider that only 8 of us serve here. But it is relatively quiet - nice after being in some of the places I have been in the past.

I do not have multiple degrees and I do not have 40 years of study.

All I have are the front line discussions with IDF troops up to relatively high rank as well as the other two sides

I also have the opportunity to either be briefed on or listen to a few of the not so friendy "sub organizations"

Despite the peace that is here - there is a strong underlying current ignored by many in your part of the world - and in fact often dismissed by the international community - read EU and America.

And yes - the attitude here is one of there are 250 million of them and only 7.4 million of us.

Any time it is mentioned - not only here but another board I post on - the reaction to the statement I made is always the same - and almost always it is the same type of people who make it - educated and / or American.

Essentially it is "Peace has broken out all over the middle east and Israel is not at risk" and "The arab nations are not ALL like that."

Peace here is very fragile and very prone to be voliatile. However there are those who would have you believe peace will break out in any moment. I wish. I see what happens and I do not for one moment believe the diplomats who are insulated and isolated.

It is almost always followed by the Syria will soon be at peace and there is love in the air. There are things I cannot write here that would make any military man understand that final peace is not imminent - but there is hope and that is why we continue to do what we do and have done so here for more than 40 years - what we do right now is an accepted peace package by both sides.

In the end - if you had been fighting for your existance for the past 60 years - and often on a daily basis you were at the brink of complete destruction - and you now had a fairly stout deterrent - would you let a president from another coutry MAKE you throw it away?

In the end that is and was the question.

This country is changing and it is no longer really what the old guard and the academics thought it was. It is becoming a country that will stand on it's own.

It is coming to realize the U.S. of A. is not the close friend it used to be - it is fast becoming only an acquaintance - and that IS a big topic of discussion on the street - "Can the U.S. be trusted?"

If Israel falls it will bring a large part of the world with it.

Peace would be great. I do not expect it in my time here. I distrust the politician and the academic that will happily sit there and tell us all how we guys on the ground are doing a great job - but "we know and you do not".

Otherwise life is grand and the bus tours are running. Both sides today are exercising and the sounds are quite loud.

But, I am only a lowly soldier - what do I know?

I am today - as in all days - along with my team of 10 people - now from 10 different countries - simply the meat in an international sandwich. :D

So - my answer - if I was a Jew has not changed - it would be "F**K you!"

Regards

BC
 
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