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Am I Missing Something!!

N

Northern Rancher

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Joined
Feb 10, 2005
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Location
saskatchewan
I'm starting to get the onslaught of bull sale catalogues-I'm just wondering if I'm getting obtuse in my old age.I just finished reading about a Horned Hereford bull with a 90 lb BW, a plus five BW EPD and a description as being thick and heavily muscled he's rated as a heifer bull in this catalogue. I gues maybe if I had a set of firt calf African elephants I needed to freshen up. It just seems that every book you get has comments and claims that just defy logic. Maybe I'm wrong about this bull and the twenty or so like him that are being promoted as calving ease at this sale. I'm thinking that it might be less risky just not to gamble on it though.
 
It would be job securityon those cold wet days for next spring. What would we all do on those cold wet days if we didn't have to pull calves. watch soap operas and eat bon bons.
 
I hear ya. Of course there are differences between breeds and breeders of what some call "calving-ease". Some Simmental breeders I know think that anything under 100lbs is OK for heifers. I know some Galloway breeders who refuse to buy a bull with a BW over 80lbs. All in the eye of the beholder right?

NR, don't you just pick out the ones that are linebred to EXT anyway? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
I guess I'm the renegade, but I've had 90# calves come quick & easy, and also had problems with lighter calves. What are they shaped like? Some of those broad headed calves are a recipe for disaster, as I'm sure many of you can attest to, while a bigger, longer calf won't cause a problem. The "thick heavy muscle " part sure raises some questions on heifers.
 
I have a neighbor he had a 4 year old angus cow bred to a hereford bull of a moderate birthwieght he pulled 146 pound dead calve out of her. sometimes mother nature pulls a fast one on a guy i guess
 
Well all I'm saying is that after years of selling semen for heifer projects and order buying bulls for people I'm pretty leery of what some people call heifer bulls. most customers don't accept "I know he has a big BW but the breeder says he'll calve good' especially after a wreck. True heifer bulls are few and far between and there is no bull alive that will calve on absolutely everything-even the highly proven bulls if used on enough cattle will cause some grief eventually. What I was getting at is if there's ANY doubt I won't risk it. The bull I described has three strikes against him-high BW EPD, high actual BW and his actual muscle shape. I've had lots of 90 pound calves out of heifers that were just fine-however the ones that weren't tend to stick in my memory.
 
Northern Rancher said:
there are exceptions to every rule but I've dragged more big ones to the shitpile than smaller ones.
Click to expand...

Yep--me too...And many times even those big ones that come with no assitance are the big dummies that lie there and die in bad weather- when those little fellers are up and sucking in a few minutes- and once they get their belly full have a good chance of making it....

I'll give up birthweight anyday for live calves...
 
Has anyone been to any bull sales yet?I need to buy a couple of bulls and just wondering how they are selling,with calf prices being as low as they are.
 
Thats for sure, I've been dealing with a big dummie and his mom for a week. Mom tries pretty hard, but I am getting tired of making him get up and trying to get him to suck. I need to find someone to bottle feed the calf I think.

Hey NR, what are you hearing from people that used your Lad bull? I bought 10 straws to use this spring. Hopefully I will have some to talk about next spring.
 
Most guys that used him calve a bit later up here-he sure calved good on heifers for me last year.When they're first born they aren't very big but they get at it pretty well. I was pleased with the calves as far as growth too. Fraser's used him A'I and natural last year and I bred over a 100 head to him at our place. The calves that we weaned are really good haired and super quiet. If his daughters are as good uddered as his mother I've got a good one. The kids are showing five Lad calves in 4H so we'll see how they shine up too lol. I'mjust hoping every black cow has a BWF heifer calf. I sold a package of Black pairs with Lad baldy calves at side-I was supposed to get the heifer calves back but I guess he won't part with them lol.
 
Your not missing anyting NR. I notice it all the time. A 3.5 BW EPD, an 88 lb bw and a bull with a 6 plus pound bw epd as the maternal grandsire and they recommend him for heifers. The other day I seen a grandson of Online out of a Keynote daughter that they recommended for heifers. I could never do that. I guess I am too afraid of makeing someone mad at me.

I think that too many purebred producers have lost touch with the commercial man. They breed those same bulls to their own hefiers and they forget that their own heifers are 14 to 1500 lb heifers that are watched day and night and they don't mind helping them whenever they need it. The commercial man operates in a different world.

I was at a meeting yesterday, where a they showed of a study in Kansas showed that herds that experienced higher levels of dystocia were 2.7 to 5.5 times more likely to be the high cost producers. It was not only from death loss, but also from more health issues in the calves.

Brian
 
I think I may have asked this before but has anyone herd of this theory on buying a heifer bull?

We had a guy use this formula when looking for heifer bulls. The adjusted weaning weight had to be 10 times the birth weight and the yearling scrotal measurement had to be at least one half of the birth weight.

For instance a 70 pound birth weight bull needed to have a 700 pound adjusted weaning weight and have 35 scrotal.

It was an interesting formula but I had never heard of it before.

have a cold one

lazy ace
 
For me to use a bull on heifers it has to have a +2.5 or lower BW epd and an actual birthweight under 85. Then I will look to see if the shape and conformity are what I am looking for.
 
Doug Thorson said:
For me to use a bull on heifers it has to have a +2.5 or lower BW epd and an actual birthweight under 85. Then I will look to see if the shape and conformity are what I am looking for.
Click to expand...

That's the same criteria I use for heifer bulls. In fact I wouldn't mind if all my bulls fit that criteria.
 
I calve alot of 800-900# 1st calf heifers and don't have trouble to speak of and I have bred 1st calf heifers to bull's not recommended for heifers.
Heifers that are well fed and fat normally will have more trouble than a properly conditioned animal.I make all of my cows walk a 1/4 to 1/2 mile each day for water exercise I think limit's your troubles also.

My wife is 4-11 and 115#s and has had 5 children no c-section's.

I've seen some friends wives weigh over 200#s and have a c-section

Fat is not good for man nor beast.
 
Denny- Maybe I just read this wrong, but if I referenced my wife & first calf heifers in a comment about calving ease I'd be the one havin a C-section..............to remove my head (or some other object) from my backside........ :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Doug, I bought a polled Hereford bull this fall and intend to use him on heifers. I don't see his actual BW listed anywhere in the paperwork. His BW EPD is a +0.3 His sire JMS Victor 806 001 has a -1.2 BW EPD and his dam has a +2.3 First time I've ever used a Hereford bull on Hereford heifers.

The last black Angus heifer bull I had is gonna be a tough act to follow. If I remember I only assisted one heifer in the past 3 years.

Denny, I agree on the condition and exercise part, although I like to see a heifer in good shape with a little reserve so that she can raise her calf and breed back for next year.

Not gonna comment on your comparison except to say that maybe your wife will take advice from the guy LA talked to. She might just get out her tape measure and start recording your stats! :oops: :shock: :lol: :wink:
 

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