Bio Mos vs Citristim...Good stuff or pixie dust?

[Amo]

Just curious to hear any feed back on any of the "mos" products. My one vet says its alright, the other says its pixie dust!

Tried to do some googling. Fair bit of info on Bio Mos, Citristim where its strictly manufactured by ADM not so much. Found one feed supplier that evidently has the ability to sell both products as well as the other "Mos" products. All I got out of their monthly news letter was "all the MOS products seam to be effective on certain types of scours". http://pharmcosd.com/userfiles/document ... 5%20FP.pdf

I fight coccidiosis. In the past Ive feed either Bovatec or Rumension. Usually bovatec (better taste) and through a tub. For various reasons I went the the bovatec/tub option. Well do to certian conditions I have a good case of scours. Mostly milk which is not an issue, but some ecoli. So got some mineral with Bio Mos from my supplier of choice. He bluntly states Bio Mos will not work on cocci. Well I went to the local ADM dealer. My supplier of choice states citirstim is unproven, which not much data on it. Thing is I can get 5# packages of the citirstim. So thought Id try mixing that in with my rumensin mineral. Try to take care of both issues with one product. Guy running the store stated that one of their customers feels that feeding citirstim helped cut their coccidiosis by more than 50%. He stated that Citristim is made from a whole yeast cell, where "other" products aren't. So Citristim will attract more pathogens than say Bio Mos.

My one vet says its all b.s. The other thinks there is some validity to the ecoli/rota stuff, but not on coccidiosis. Which I would tend to agree with. Yet I do know the producer that is claiming help on the reduction of cocci while using Citristim. Just curious if anyone has had similar results. I know individual treatment with antibiodics is proabaly the cheapest route. For various reasons, I do feel there is some merit to prevention. Sandhills calving system or any other from of seperation of groups really isn't feasable.

Thanks.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Rio Nutrition says their Yeast product is better then Biomos. My head starts to spin some times.

 

[WB]

In feed salesman world there is a lot of misinformation that gets spread. How much is intentional or not I don't know. Bio moss is for real as I have seen it with my own eyes. Does it solve all your problems? No it won't. If someone says they have something better my response would be to ask them to show me the research that backs their claims.
Amo, have you actually sent in stool samples that confirm that you have cocci?

 

[PPRM]

My take on it all. These Mos Products I use in conjunction at times with Mineral. What we are really looking at is trying to have a healthy gut. My attempts I view as all being preventative. My line of thinking is a healthy gut is the precursor to a healthy animal.

I have some bags of products I got from Altec that I occasionally mix in with the mineral. The mineral company can and will premix. I just don't need enough to justify several tons premix.

The products smell really good and have a real yeast smell to them. I mix according to the bag and find I get a real good mix as I stir it by hand.

Here's where I use it. Preening/weaning. New set of cows or calves, most especially if they are thin. Fall when I am pulling cattle off some dry pastures and am going to work them into a mixed silage feed (BTW, for a week or so, those kind especially will be on good hay only).

So, as I said initially, I use this stuff as preventative. Occasionally, even healthy cattle can get sick. I used to be really good at working sick cattle. It doesn't happen enough anymore that I have to really go back and think about them. This warm January and February, scours has been a son of a gun for our calves at about a week of age. At that point, the preventative has all been there and curative measures are what's left.

 

[jodywy]

I used a custom mineral (tested forage, hay and blood) for a few years now and stopped vaccinating for scours , even before I got it mixed with Bio Mos, If there a sick calf it usually one that didn't suckle right off. I put the mineral-mos mix in open containers if there no storm so the calves can get to it. Would say it helped with the endotoxemia---- over eating with older calves and bare ground...

 

[Amo]

Rio Nutrition says their Yeast product is better then Biomos. My head starts to spin some times.

Ya, my thoughts exactly. Intake is the key to making it work. I never used it since I didn't think a baby calf would eat enough to make it work properly. Plus the cost. My one vet will always say its cheaper to treat the sick ones than do whole herd prevention. Which I see his point.

Yet I also agree with PPRM in the fact that prevention pays. There's always an economic threshold. Im in the same boat as him, I just cant justify a whole 2 ton of it. Really don't want to buy 50# either if I don't need it. The ADM supplier will sell 5# packages of it, which mix into 100# of mineral mix. I like that idea. Use it when you need to. Rumension is bitter. I seen a lot of calves go over to the non-medicated Bio Mos mineral. They seam to hang around the feeder where I have the Rumension mineral with the citristim. So I guess thats alright, since Rumension is better on cocci than Bovatec. A lot of the info I read last night was talking about feeding several weeks pre calving. Improve colostrum quality. Improved colostrum they said will linger for several weeks to help defend phenomia, etc. Like I always say, its so good it will bring peace to the middle east. Maybe it does. Colostrum makes a good imineuine system I guess, but I didn't think it went out more than several days. I could very well be wrong on that.

In feed salesman world there is a lot of misinformation that gets spread. How much is intentional or not I don't know. Bio moss is for real as I have seen it with my own eyes. Does it solve all your problems? No it won't. If someone says they have something better my response would be to ask them to show me the research that backs their claims.
Amo, have you actually sent in stool samples that confirm that you have cocci?

I was hoping in the 3 places I posted this Id snag a feedman First off, just got a call from the place I bought the citristim from. I was busy when I was there. He said he got ecoli and cocci turned around. He felt that the citristim might help with the cocci, but he was thinking of ecoli. As far as I can tell Bio Mos, Integra Mos, Citristim, etc. are like Ford vs Chevy. I never really looked up the other Mos products, didn't know they existed. Bio Mos had a fair bit of research data, mostly for poultry and pork for feed conversion/gain IIRC. Did state control of some scours in beef cattle. One study was with cow vaccinated for scours, why IDK. Is there really a major difference in the different "Mos" products, or is it just minor differences? Maybe one products is better for feed conversion in chickens vs scours control in beef?

About 10 years ago I was done calving. Calves were worked and turned out on grass. I took off for the weekend. Came home had one dead with several sick. Everything was fine when I left, and had been for a while. Local vet said bring them over. He posted the dead and looked at the sick one. He determined cocci. Been treating them that way and have been successful provided caught in time. Until the last several years, I hadn't been using corid. Just hydration and antibiodics....exceede. So that is getting better. Guess I like prevention instead of treatment.

 

[Amo]

I used a custom mineral (tested forage, hay and blood) for a few years now and stopped vaccinating for scours , even before I got it mixed with Bio Mos, If there a sick calf it usually one that didn't suckle right off. I put the mineral-mos mix in open containers if there no storm so the calves can get to it. Would say it helped with the endotoxemia---- over eating with older calves and bare ground...

I think back 10-15 years ago a lot more people vaccinated for scours. Vet says some still do if they have problems. Use to see bred heifers sell with first scour guard shot. Don't see it anymore. Some of that is because of the scour boss vaccine. Leave the option open to the buyer what product to use. Like one person says, when you vaccinate your bringing the pathogen onto your place. Of course he still pushes respatority vaccine....same principle.

My calves do eat sand some. Ive been told its lack of selinium. Ive heard people get really worked up over it. IDK, guess as far as I can tell it hasn't bothered me as far as I know. I think they are just bored/curious.

 

[jodywy]

I used a custom mineral (tested forage, hay and blood) for a few years now and stopped vaccinating for scours , even before I got it mixed with Bio Mos, If there a sick calf it usually one that didn't suckle right off. I put the mineral-mos mix in open containers if there no storm so the calves can get to it. Would say it helped with the endotoxemia---- over eating with older calves and bare ground...

I think back 10-15 years ago a lot more people vaccinated for scours. Vet says some still do if they have problems. Use to see bred heifers sell with first scour guard shot. Don't see it anymore. Some of that is because of the scour boss vaccine. Leave the option open to the buyer what product to use. Like one person says, when you vaccinate your bringing the pathogen onto your place. Of course he still pushes respatority vaccine....same principle.

My calves do eat sand some. Ive been told its lack of selinium. Ive heard people get really worked up over it. IDK, guess as far as I can tell it hasn't bothered me as far as I know. I think they are just bored/curious.

mineral I use is maxed out on selenium , and copper,
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=454322611313348&set=a.104892936256319.11114.100002068387919&type=3

 

[Faster horses]

What I would like to know, Ammo, is "are you on a year round mineral program?" If you aren't, I would highly suggest you do so. Many problems fade away with the right mineral program....and all mineral isn't created equal. I'd like to see an ingredient tag to see what you are using.

Bio-Moss is genuine as far as helping control scours. Up by Augusta Mt those ranchers had epidemic scours....for years....long story short, one of our nutritionists worked up a mineral containing Bio-Moss. It worked on the calves in that area. Made a HUGE difference and is continuing to make a huge difference. I have never heard it making a difference with coccidiosis.

As for coccidiosis....all animals have coccidia....when stressed the coccidia can over grow and then you have coccidiosis. Coccidia is the parasite, coccidiosis is the disease. Bovatech and Rumensin have to be fed so the cattle get a certain amount each day, or those products can't control coccidiosis. Funny, salesman don't often mention that fact. There is Dequintate that will control it, you feed it for 28 days (my area manager says 30 to be really safe) and Amprolium to treat it--which is usually put in the water. Those are the only two sure products. We have a mineral with Dequinate that some customers buy in the fall for weaning. It works. We have one customer that was told by another company to feed Dequinate to his cows before calving to control coccidiosis. I have found nothing to support that, but he gets it from us, feeds it before calving and has no more issues with coccidiosis in his calves in the spring.

I would say you can hear anything. Vets are usually good at what they do, but they aren't nutritionists and their veterinary schooling doesn't spend much time on nutrition.

I have to call a company nutritionist that has done a lot of work with Biomoss and find out if iodine is essential for goats....as someone tried to tell me....so I'll ask about Biomoss and Coccidiosis.

We haven't sold a bag of BioMoss to the customers in our area. They have learned that a good year-round mineral program usually takes care of sickness problems. I realize every place is different but every rancher has an opportunity to use a year-round mineral program. Keeping the mineral in front of the cows is key.

Hope this helps! Good luck to you.

 

[Amo]

Yes, year around. Its a Hubbard mineral. 2-1 cal/phos ratio. I use to feed chealates. I started feeding it cause supplier at the time pushed it. I ai, so thought it was worth the expense. Last several years, I have backed off the chealates. Cattle prep 8 pre calving through second cycle. Then its called sweet phos 8. Latter Ill see if I can find something online. Yet any feed store that orders 2 ton or more can tweek the ppm's etc of anything in their product. Two Hubbard, ADM, McNess, etc stores can have the home plant make it and stick that Hubbard/ADM feed tag on it, but they can have different levels of what ever. Of course then you have phosphates or oxides. One of the biggest manufactors of mineral in our area uses oxides. Its cheaper, so thats some of it. Plus according to university extension (baxter black saying.....nobody is smarter than a bus load of county agents) we really don't need to feed much of anything except some minor stuff. I don't remember the exact mix, but what Im saying is I think they get away with using oxides because our grass and water has a fair amount of stuff in it already.

 

[PPRM]

We haven't sold a bag of BioMoss to the customers in our area. They have learned that a good year-round mineral program usually takes care of sickness problems. I realize every place is different but every rancher has an opportunity to use a year-round mineral program. Keeping the mineral in front of the cows is key.

Yep, the only time I really use it on our home cattle is when I am taking them from poor feed to silage. I learned that by losing two older cows to Acidosis. I now give them a few weeks with the biomoss and good hay to build them up to going on feed. I do similar with the thinner cattle I buy. One of the most rewarding things I do is turn thin cattle into top performers. Mineral and decent feed...

Most rewarding thing I do is have heifers that I have selected turn out to be super moms.

 

[Faster horses]

Yes, year around. Its a Hubbard mineral. 2-1 cal/phos ratio. I use to feed chealates. I started feeding it cause supplier at the time pushed it. I ai, so thought it was worth the expense. Last several years, I have backed off the chealates. Cattle prep 8 pre calving through second cycle. Then its called sweet phos 8. Latter Ill see if I can find something online. Yet any feed store that orders 2 ton or more can tweek the ppm's etc of anything in their product. Two Hubbard, ADM, McNess, etc stores can have the home plant make it and stick that Hubbard/ADM feed tag on it, but they can have different levels of what ever. Of course then you have phosphates or oxides. One of the biggest manufactors of mineral in our area uses oxides. Its cheaper, so thats some of it. Plus according to university extension (baxter black saying.....nobody is smarter than a bus load of county agents) we really don't need to feed much of anything except some minor stuff. I don't remember the exact mix, but what Im saying is I think they get away with using oxides because our grass and water has a fair amount of stuff in it already.

Oxides aren't as available to the cow. We have sold mineral for 21 years and have only sold chelates to the local veterinarian when he was doing embryo transplants and didn't have his cows on a year round mineral program. (Imagine that...)

 

[Silver]

We give a Toltrazuril pill to our calves at birth when we tag. Since we have done that we haven't had a problem with coccidiosis. Hopefully the trend continues.