Hereford76
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
Explanations for this please
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Anonymous
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Hereford76 said:
Well-- I've sat and watched the mixed herds come into the sales for years--and unless demand is really high like it was for a couple years after the border closed-- the buyers will want the greys and hereford calves cut back...These herefords and odd colors then sell for a reduced price than the original black or red bunch- even tho they are identical in every other way...I have a couple of neighbors that usually pick these type "cheaper" calves up- winter them- and then run them on grass along with all the rest of the calves they have- and in the fall they all sell together for a good price and color doesn't appear to matter....And according to them- those little hereford calves take to grass as good or better than any.....
Seen the same many times out inspecting-- hereford or colored calves cut back-- but when kept and grassed thru as yearlings they sell right with the bunch...
PureCountry
Well-known member
Therein lies the key........"when they're kept through to grass..." There's almost always a little more to be made by keeping them a bit longer. And like you say Oldtimer, they look so much better as grassers in August/September as opposed to right off the cow in November. It's all marketing.
Doug Thorson
Well-known member
The excuses feedlot owners have
1 Health problems with hereford calves.
Maybe some due to the oldtime folks who didn't give any shots and kept raising herefords because they could. 99% of todays herefords are just as immune as any other breed but memories linger
2 Herefords are harder to get started on feed
I have weaned a thousand, it is true.
3 starting them as calves gives you too many YG4
I have no experience with this but I know one feedlot operator from ND that never has any 4's but he double sorts every pen.
4 almost no prime carcasses and not as many choice.
Packers don't want a shear test for tenderness because they can sell hereford select just like any other breeds choice. With less fat in the meat it also should be healthier.
Those four are the biggest complaint on herefords from feedlots. The first three almost disappear when they are run to yearlings, thus the spread closes.
Another problem with herefords is you hardly ever see 500 at once so bidders have to figure out how to fit them in if they buy them.
Advantages to feeding herefords has to do with feed conversion. I am certain that the same lot operators said at $3.00 corn they could take $5.00 hundred less for herefords and break even with angus. Make that $5.00 corn and I don't know where the spread ends, but high priced corn should be the best thing that ever happened to the hereford breed.
1 Health problems with hereford calves.
Maybe some due to the oldtime folks who didn't give any shots and kept raising herefords because they could. 99% of todays herefords are just as immune as any other breed but memories linger
2 Herefords are harder to get started on feed
I have weaned a thousand, it is true.
3 starting them as calves gives you too many YG4
I have no experience with this but I know one feedlot operator from ND that never has any 4's but he double sorts every pen.
4 almost no prime carcasses and not as many choice.
Packers don't want a shear test for tenderness because they can sell hereford select just like any other breeds choice. With less fat in the meat it also should be healthier.
Those four are the biggest complaint on herefords from feedlots. The first three almost disappear when they are run to yearlings, thus the spread closes.
Another problem with herefords is you hardly ever see 500 at once so bidders have to figure out how to fit them in if they buy them.
Advantages to feeding herefords has to do with feed conversion. I am certain that the same lot operators said at $3.00 corn they could take $5.00 hundred less for herefords and break even with angus. Make that $5.00 corn and I don't know where the spread ends, but high priced corn should be the best thing that ever happened to the hereford breed.
SMN Herf
Well-known member
I think the biggest reason is the perceived health issue. I think Doug probably hit it on the head when he said past experiences have shown that some of the oldtimers that raised Herefords were slow to give shots.
I guarantee though that a black one will die just as easy as a red one. Only thing is that you probably paid more for the black one. :wink: :wink:
I have not noticed that the Herefords start on feed any harder than the rest of the cattle. Herefords and angus are weaned together here for decades and I fail to see the difference in starting them on feed.
Every area of the country is different and every sale barn does things a little different, but I have seen time and time again where a full pot load of Hereford steers will sell for just as much as any other cattle especially
if they are over 600 lbs.
You also have to look at what is happening at the other end of the cattle production chain. Hereford calves won't work for CAB. Order buyers have orders for CAB Qualifying cattlet, so red ones get sorted.
There are still many markets for the Hereford cattle. CHB, Vanderose Farms, and I know some nonimplanted natrural programs are taking red cattle to as long as they are 100% British genetics.
Cattle buyers arent' any different than anyone else. If they can find a way to buy cattle cheaper, they will. Sorting the reds off is only one way to do it.
There is becoming more and more data on the efficiency benefits of Hereford and Hereford cross calves and I guarantee that there are feedlots taking notice of it especially with corn pushing $5.00/bu. You don't have to run Hereford cows in order to capture some of this either. Putting Hereford bulls on your straight angus cows and the calves qualify for either the CAB, CHB or just about any premium branded beef program out there. They will sell with anything. Plus you get the f1 heifers too!
Brian
I guarantee though that a black one will die just as easy as a red one. Only thing is that you probably paid more for the black one. :wink: :wink:
I have not noticed that the Herefords start on feed any harder than the rest of the cattle. Herefords and angus are weaned together here for decades and I fail to see the difference in starting them on feed.
Every area of the country is different and every sale barn does things a little different, but I have seen time and time again where a full pot load of Hereford steers will sell for just as much as any other cattle especially
if they are over 600 lbs.
You also have to look at what is happening at the other end of the cattle production chain. Hereford calves won't work for CAB. Order buyers have orders for CAB Qualifying cattlet, so red ones get sorted.
There are still many markets for the Hereford cattle. CHB, Vanderose Farms, and I know some nonimplanted natrural programs are taking red cattle to as long as they are 100% British genetics.
Cattle buyers arent' any different than anyone else. If they can find a way to buy cattle cheaper, they will. Sorting the reds off is only one way to do it.
There is becoming more and more data on the efficiency benefits of Hereford and Hereford cross calves and I guarantee that there are feedlots taking notice of it especially with corn pushing $5.00/bu. You don't have to run Hereford cows in order to capture some of this either. Putting Hereford bulls on your straight angus cows and the calves qualify for either the CAB, CHB or just about any premium branded beef program out there. They will sell with anything. Plus you get the f1 heifers too!
Brian
I have 1 hereford bull in my pen with 30 blacks,he only eats grain about 1/2 the time.I had an old herford cow a few years ago we were feeding corn screenings to the cows and she never ate one bite all winter she would stand 20' from the bunk's and watch she was never skinny her whole life but she also never raised much of a calf.
lazy ace
Well-known member
I will have to admit that when we buy steaks from the grocery store we try to buy CHB. We have tried some CAB steaks but sometimes they were good and sometimes you needed a chain saw to cut them. We have yet to be disappointed with Hereford. The color blindness deal is hog wash there are good cattle in every breed, if a rancher does a good job raising cattle and cares about how they turn out in the end he will probably sell for a premium on sale day.
Just my thoughts
have a cold one
lazy ace
Just my thoughts
have a cold one
lazy ace
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Black baldies work just fine for CAB. If there were two breeds that ever complimented each other it's Horned Hereford and Angus in my opinion. Our Canadian Angus association in their infinite wisdom won't allow anyone to use Angus tags in baldy calves off a Hereford bull and straight angus cows. However I can run the sorriest Angus bull going on Hereford cows-pinto wildebeasts or whatever and tag everyone as long as the bull has a registration paper. Needless to say I've poiinted out a good place for their breed tags-quite a few feet south of the ear the truth be known.Angus is a great breed that's at the top right now but you have to watch where your headed especially at the top of the mountain.
That IS true! We bought 20 HerefordXSimm heifers bred Hereford that calved last spring and we have been backgrounding them on hay and grain since October. I still have to go round up the Herefords at grain time and bring them to the bunks. All the other calves are waiting at the bunks, and I have to go out in the pen and bring between 3 and 8 of the Herefords just about every time.
High Plains
Well-known member
Right around 17% of BLACK cattle qualify for CAB. It's not just a hide-color thing that qualifies the cattle. They have to grade in the upper 2/3's of the Choice grade or better, on top of that pretty black color that they're carrying. There are a total of 10 carcass specifications that each carcass has to pass before it's marked as a CAB. The marbling level is far and away the most significant of those ten specs. Selling a carcass instead of a live animal will quickly make a person sit up and pay attention to genetics and management. Angus cattle do have a breed advantage for marbling, but there's lots of variation within the breed. Of course, there are plenty of black baldies that make CAB too, and Angus-Simmis and several other Angus-cross cattle. That's the reality of it. Decide for yourself if you think that Angus is the common denominator. I know how I'd bet.
Last I checked the price spread between Choice and Select was $11.19/cwt. It was over $15 in December. No mention of breed anywhere. :wink: Prime is right around a $20 premium over Choice. My math says to produce more Choice cattle (and get a few Primes if you're lucky; beat the 2% national average :lol: ) if you're selling into a value-based system or to feedlots that plan on doing the same. Maybe someday shear force will enter the equation.
Well said, Lazy Ace.
Very true. By the way, I'm surprised that you don't prefer to eat that Sterling Silver beef? Isn't that where the high-grading reds end up?
HP
RobertMac
Well-known member
So do Jersey! :shock: :wink:HP said:
lazy ace
Well-known member
High Plains said:
Right around 17% of BLACK cattle qualify for CAB. It's not just a hide-color thing that qualifies the cattle. They have to grade in the upper 2/3's of the Choice grade or better, on top of that pretty black color that they're carrying. There are a total of 10 carcass specifications that each carcass has to pass before it's marked as a CAB. The marbling level is far and away the most significant of those ten specs. Selling a carcass instead of a live animal will quickly make a person sit up and pay attention to genetics and management. Angus cattle do have a breed advantage for marbling, but there's lots of variation within the breed. Of course, there are plenty of black baldies that make CAB too, and Angus-Simmis and several other Angus-cross cattle. That's the reality of it. Decide for yourself if you think that Angus is the common denominator. I know how I'd bet.
Last I checked the price spread between Choice and Select was $11.19/cwt. It was over $15 in December. No mention of breed anywhere. :wink: Prime is right around a $20 premium over Choice. My math says to produce more Choice cattle (and get a few Primes if you're lucky; beat the 2% national average :lol: ) if you're selling into a value-based system or to feedlots that plan on doing the same. Maybe someday shear force will enter the equation.
Well said, Lazy Ace.
By the way, I'm surprised that you don't prefer to eat that Sterling Silver beef? Isn't that where the high-grading reds end up?
HP
I do like sterling silver when we can get them but they are hard to come by around here.
have a cold one (and a big juicy steak)
Lazy ace
