I don't use any and was wondering how many of you do on your hay ground and pastures.Alot of guys here do but to me it's cheaper to buy feed than fertilizer.I did use it on one hay field one time we got twice as many bales off that field that year than previous.The problem was we spent $1100 for 47 extra bales $23.40 per bale just in fertilizer.I can buy hay here most years for $15 to $25 each.I know a guy who said he spent $82 per cow just in fertilizer cost.I know they cover less ground and get more hay than I do but my pencil can't make it work.Were getting up on cow number's now where we will be able to cover 300 acre's each winter with cow manure. How about the rest of you what's your thoughts.
Fertilizer ???
- Thread starter Denny
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kolanuraven
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Here in the South.....WHEN/IF/EVER it rains again..... I fertililze with chicken litter that has gone thru a heat cycle and I do that about every 2 years. Hay fields, pastures, the whole place will get a good coating.
Soil tests done about every 2 yrs also and adjust as needed.
I tend to pull the cows from areas where I've fertilized till it has a good rain on it. You don' t have to...but I do cause I'd not like to graze shite!!! :shock: :shock:
I keep such a small number here on my place that I can do that.
Soil tests done about every 2 yrs also and adjust as needed.
I tend to pull the cows from areas where I've fertilized till it has a good rain on it. You don' t have to...but I do cause I'd not like to graze shite!!! :shock: :shock:
I keep such a small number here on my place that I can do that.
Mike
Well-known member
Denny said:
Kinda depends on what you are calling fertilizer.
If you are talking P or K, there is not much other alternative unless you have access to chicken litter or other manures.
Nitrogen is the big killer here. In normal years we have so much rain, the nitrogen is leeched from the soil, making it slow to grow and have less protein.
Adding legumes is the only thing I have been doing, and that is not so cheap anymore, plus you don't get that big flush of growth when you need it.
Yep, we need a cheaper source of nitrogen for sure.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Fertilizer alone without moisture doesn't do you much good-ten years of drought taught me that. Bale grazing and rotational grazing have helped our pastures just as much and with alot less cost. The days of spending a $1 to make 90 cents are behind us. Areas that are irrigated or get ample-DEPENDABLE- moisture are different deals.
Test your hay,fertilized and not fertilized,you will find out quick why we fertilize hay fields,I still have not figured out how a man can come up with a winter feeding program not knowing the value of his feed..............good luck
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
You know the value of a winter feeding program by testing your feed not by fertilizing your fields. At least that's how we do it where we actually have winter lol. Not saying fertilizer doesn't make the grass grow but not always economically feasible.
Northern Rancher said:
Your hay is your feed.............if you and mother nature did your part :wink: .................good luck
PS lots of bought protein wasted every winter,I reckon alot of that will change,as the price of feedstuffs sky rocket.
cowwrangler
Well-known member
around here some guys will have the dairies put liquid manure over the grass hay,most of the time they are looking for places for it and are not charged
Mike
Well-known member
Northern Rancher said:
Protein content in hay is directly proportional to the amount of nitrogen available to the grass.
In a good? year when it rains normally down here, the nitrogen in the soil is gone pretty quickly and must be added back to get any growth and quality feed suitable for feeding without supplementation.
Sometimes we have no other choice.
Jason
Well-known member
Crude protien numbers in feedstuffs is just a mathematical equation of nitrogen and sulpher content.
Some research is being done on feed quality apart from those numbers. The bottom line is how well do the animals perform on x quantity of said feed.
One thing for sure is land that sees regular applications of fertilizer needs continued applications to sustain production. Soil life decreases with each application and eventually there is not enough soil life to convert the inorganic fertilizer and the land becomes useless.
Organic and soil friendly sources of nitrogen will not leach and because they are made by soil life, are not harmful to same. High quality humifyed compost is an example.
Economically I think a blend of both is the way to build the soil, a smaller dose of the fast acting fertilizer to make the current crop more valuable and some inputs of soil building items.
On hay and/or grass moisture and rootmass are vital to sustained production, I have gone 4 years with no fertilizer on hayland, the first year post fertilizer was tough, but it is getting better.
Some research is being done on feed quality apart from those numbers. The bottom line is how well do the animals perform on x quantity of said feed.
One thing for sure is land that sees regular applications of fertilizer needs continued applications to sustain production. Soil life decreases with each application and eventually there is not enough soil life to convert the inorganic fertilizer and the land becomes useless.
Organic and soil friendly sources of nitrogen will not leach and because they are made by soil life, are not harmful to same. High quality humifyed compost is an example.
Economically I think a blend of both is the way to build the soil, a smaller dose of the fast acting fertilizer to make the current crop more valuable and some inputs of soil building items.
On hay and/or grass moisture and rootmass are vital to sustained production, I have gone 4 years with no fertilizer on hayland, the first year post fertilizer was tough, but it is getting better.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
S'cuse me folks, but around here we are just farmers, but some of the same rules are at work for us as for ranchers. :wink:
Manure does wonders for grass production. I have seen here how much greener and thicker the grass is where we have spread manure compared to the ground next to it where there was none applied.
But I don't know if a closed operation can produce enough poop to cover the ground it takes to put up enough feed for a herd of cows, in pasture and hay ground combined. So, I think Denny is right, you gotta buy feed in.
As far as getting the maximum value out of the manure, I wonder if one would get more value out of it if it is composted. It certainly would be more stable, if my info is correct.
What I find disturbing around here is how the cash croppers sell all of the straw off of their wheat fields. I don't think one can put back all that the crop takes from the soil by depending entirely on commercial fertilizers. There must be a steady loss of organic matter, I would guess.
Manure does wonders for grass production. I have seen here how much greener and thicker the grass is where we have spread manure compared to the ground next to it where there was none applied.
But I don't know if a closed operation can produce enough poop to cover the ground it takes to put up enough feed for a herd of cows, in pasture and hay ground combined. So, I think Denny is right, you gotta buy feed in.
As far as getting the maximum value out of the manure, I wonder if one would get more value out of it if it is composted. It certainly would be more stable, if my info is correct.
What I find disturbing around here is how the cash croppers sell all of the straw off of their wheat fields. I don't think one can put back all that the crop takes from the soil by depending entirely on commercial fertilizers. There must be a steady loss of organic matter, I would guess.
IL Rancher
Well-known member
Our hay field is an annual hay field. Well, it is supposed to be but with the drier sprngs we have been using the barley as grazing instead to save the perm. pastures from being hit to hard.. But we ran a test on it a year after we took hay off it and after we wintered our cows on it.. We winter our cows on this field most every year and bring in baled corn stalks and feed those there too.. Ground it super, super fertile, doesn't need any fertilizer and if anything we need to take the hay off and feed it somewhere else so we can get some of the nutirents out of the soil.. Potash is through the roof, lol..
We are starting on a biologic fertilzier program on your pastures... We shall see how it works but from what I have seen at other folks places that are doing it, well, it just might be worth it..
We are starting on a biologic fertilzier program on your pastures... We shall see how it works but from what I have seen at other folks places that are doing it, well, it just might be worth it..
PureCountry
Well-known member
alabama said:
Truer words were never spoken Alabama. It could also be said that a good planet has healthy soil, and there are getting to be fewer and fewer places on this old 3rd rock from the sun, where you can find truly nutrient dense soils. And don't kid yourselves, you do NOT replenish the health of the soil with N,P, or K, when it's been derived from natural gas and commercial processing. Annhydrous is also a killer of the life in your soil.
To have healthy soils takes work and time, which unfortunately are the 2 things the multi-nationals have done a good job of removing from the equation. They have made it far too convenient for farmers and ranchers to slap on a quick fix, year after year. We are so impressed with the initial growth, but year after year it seems to take more to achieve the same results. So many of us cannot see the forest for the trees. We need healthy, living soils to grow healthy, living communities. Farmers and ranchers are the key to all that.
cowwrangler
Well-known member
we do need the organic matter in the soil,some of the farmers here are starting to see that where they have grown corn and sold to the dairies for silage,they are taking to much off them year after year and their soil is starting to show it,even with putting manure back on them feilds, kinda of a learning experiance with the biomass ethonal plants coming ,they will have to rotate the feilds they take straw,stalks off from,
Doug Thorson
Well-known member
As the old saying goes " figures don't lie but liers do figure!"
PureCountry said:
No argument outa me ,on the organic fertilizer theory,pretty hard to come by around here tho, round bale waste and cow sheist is piled, given time to cook and put back on the fields,but its never enough............test your fields,give em what they need,test your hay and give your cows what they need...................good luck
PureCountry
Well-known member
It's been a struggle here too Haymaker to find sources of organic fertilizers and natural ingredients to amend the soils. We are low on calcium in most of east-central Alberta, and calcium in a pure form, known as "Marl", is tough to come by. We could import mineral formulations from the coastal areas, that are combinations of kelp and material mined from the ocean floor, but it's costly, too.
Jason
Well-known member
For calcium, try GSR.com I think.. it is a pure calcium source $13 an acre, it is supposed to untie some of the nutrients in your soil and help the calcium that is there tied up become available.
For Phos a fish emulsion for $6 an acre works well.
For Phos a fish emulsion for $6 an acre works well.
rainie
Well-known member
We use to buy in the "quick fix" chemical fertilizer. Started looking at the cows as fertilizer applicators. A cow's manure is now worth about .40 cents per day. This is just cow pies and not urine, which is supposed to have more nutrients in it. So every cow puts out about 150.00 of manure a year. 100 cows - 15;000.00 200 cows- 30,000.00 and so on. Rotating these cows and bale grazing has really improved our grass. One thing I've noticed with bale grazing is the amount of clovers that all of a sudden just show up, mostly alsike clover. The whole purpose of rotating and bale grazing is to spread the cow's fertilizer where you need it and to feed the soil critters. I read an article that said 75% of the nutrients that you could have had are lost through leaching and evaporation when composting or stockpiling manure. It's better coming straight out of the cow and dropped where you need it. This may mean planting more fenceposts and stringing wire, but I think it's worth the effort. The way I look at fencing is every hour I spend putting up new fence will pay me back 100 fold in freeing up some spare time and improving our grass quality and quantity.