Food for thought

[RobertMac]

From Gary Taubes "Good Calories, Bad Calories"....

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homoeostasis-the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars-sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically-are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are most likely the dietary cause of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance- a disequilibrium- in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated- either chronically or after a meal--we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.

 

[PORKER]

Link to all of those upscale farm and ranch owners getting our Ag subsidies. http://www.usda.gov/documents/8907Manhattanmap.pdf

 

[RobertMac]

Link to all of those upscale farm and ranch owners getting our Ag subsidies. http://www.usda.gov/documents/8907Manhattanmap.pdf

Porker, did you misplace this post?

 

[Tex]

Link to all of those upscale farm and ranch owners getting our Ag subsidies. http://www.usda.gov/documents/8907Manhattanmap.pdf

Porker, did you misplace this post?

I think porker is trying to point out that you need only follow the money to see why things are the way they are. When we have New York City folks influencing Ag. policy the way they do, they are going to do it for their self interest, not the Ag community's interest-- unless they happen to own them. That is one of the reasons reasonable payment limitations on farm subsidies by the Fed. govt. did not get passed. Too many "important" city slickers against losing money they shouldn't get in the first place. Welfare for the rich is harder to stop than welfare for the poor.

It is the same way with nutrition truth.


Do you think ADM is interested in your nutrition information, RM? Their man is acting Sec. of Agriculture and your interest groups that counter these interests, NCBA, are in bed with them.

 

[RobertMac]

Do you think ADM is interested in your nutrition information, RM?

Yes they are, but their interest is in seeing that it doesn't get out and will pay to have this information 'debunked'...public health be damned!!!! One thing mrj will never admit to is that so called "sound science" can be bought!!!

 

[Tex]

Do you think ADM is interested in your nutrition information, RM?

Yes they are, but their interest is in seeing that it doesn't get out and will pay to have this information 'debunked'...public health be damned!!!! One thing mrj will never admit to is that so called "sound science" can be bought!!!

Prediction:

If beef ever has becomes as screwed up as chickens and has larger margins than poultry, this information will come out by NCBA itself.

 

[TSR]

From Gary Taubes "Good Calories, Bad Calories"....

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homoeostasis-the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars-sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically-are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are most likely the dietary cause of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance- a disequilibrium- in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated- either chronically or after a meal--we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.

Dr. Atkins legacy lives on! I agree 100% with Mr Taubes. Trouble is as Robert Mac has said many times, we need someone to put this in front of consumers on a large scale.

 

[RobertMac]

From Gary Taubes "Good Calories, Bad Calories"....

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homoeostasis-the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars-sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically-are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are most likely the dietary cause of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance- a disequilibrium- in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated- either chronically or after a meal--we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.

Why is NCBA/CBB promoting ONLY a 3 oz. serving (size of a deck of cards) of LEAN beef?

It is because in the late 1960s Ancel Keys put forth a hypothesis that saturated fats caused high cholesterol which cause heart disease. The problem is his Seven Countries Study that was the basis for this hypothesis was flawed!

Let me put it in rancher terms...
In the spring after calving season, a group of ranchers talk about their calving percentages. One neighbor claims over 95% calving percentage. But he didn't figure in the 10% of exposed cows that were culled in the fall because they were open. So his hypothesis of a 95% calving was a flawed hypothesis.
It was the same for Ancel Keys's Seven Countries Study(and other studies used to support it)...when only these seven countries were included, the data is accurate, BUT when a dozen other countries are looked at, the association of saturated fats and heart disease falls apart. Contradicting data is ignored to accept this saturated fat/cholesterol "is bad for humans" hypothesis. The truth is that saturated animal fats has been a major part of the human diet for millions of years...if this flawed hypothesis were true, humans would be extinct by now!!!!

But NCBA/CBB accepts this flawed hypothesis as true and promotes eating less saturated fats as healthy...WITHOUT USING " an abundance of caution" and waiting until their scientist have studied this theory so what THEY say to the public is completely TRUTHFUL!!!!!!

Where is the consistency, mrj or any other NCBAers that are brave enough to speak up??????

 

[Tex]

From Gary Taubes "Good Calories, Bad Calories"....

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homoeostasis-the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars-sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically-are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are most likely the dietary cause of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance- a disequilibrium- in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated- either chronically or after a meal--we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.

Why is NCBA/CBB promoting ONLY a 3 oz. serving (size of a deck of cards) of LEAN beef?

It is because in the late 1960s Ancel Keys put forth a hypothesis that saturated fats caused high cholesterol which cause heart disease. The problem is his Seven Countries Study that was the basis for this hypothesis was flawed!

Let me put it in rancher terms...
In the spring after calving season, a group of ranchers talk about their calving percentages. One neighbor claims over 95% calving percentage. But he didn't figure in the 10% of exposed cows that were culled in the fall because they were open. So his hypothesis of a 95% calving was a flawed hypothesis.
It was the same for Ancel Keys's Seven Countries Study(and other studies used to support it)...when only these seven countries were included, the data is accurate, BUT when a dozen other countries are looked at, the association of saturated fats and heart disease falls apart. Contradicting data is ignored to accept this saturated fat/cholesterol "is bad for humans" hypothesis. The truth is that saturated animal fats has been a major part of the human diet for millions of years...if this flawed hypothesis were true, humans would be extinct by now!!!!

But NCBA/CBB accepts this flawed hypothesis as true and promotes eating less saturated fats as healthy...WITHOUT USING " an abundance of caution" and waiting until their scientist have studied this theory so what THEY say to the public is completely TRUTHFUL!!!!!!

Where is the consistency, mrj or any other NCBAers that are brave enough to speak up??????

Prediction:

If beef ever has becomes as screwed up as chickens and has larger margins than poultry, this information will come out by NCBA itself.

 

[RobertMac]

Prediction:

If beef ever has becomes as screwed up as chickens and has larger margins than poultry, this information will come out by NCBA itself.

Beef will never beat poultry at cost of gain (unless all on cheap forage :shock: :wink: )...so the packers :roll: I mean, NCBA/CBB will never promote this information!!!!!
They should, at least, be questioning the unproven saturated fat/ cholesterol hypothesis...they had no problem doubting Dr. Atkins!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tex]

Prediction:

If beef ever has becomes as screwed up as chickens and has larger margins than poultry, this information will come out by NCBA itself.

Beef will never beat poultry at cost of gain (unless all on cheap forage :shock: :wink: )...so the packers :roll: I mean, NCBA/CBB will never promote this information!!!!!
They should, at least, be questioning the unproven saturated fat/ cholesterol hypothesis...they had no problem doubting Dr. Atkins!!!!!!!!!

For packers, it is the profit per lb. times volume that equals more money for them. If packers could get more profit in beef (screw it out of producers) than chicken (say because they had to pay more for their inputs -- including producers), then you would see NCBA policy change. Prices per lb. don't matter to them-- it is profits they are interested in.

Look at Canada. Their poultry costs much more per lb. compared to beef than it is here in the U.S. The big problem with poultry for packers in Canada is that producers have control and say so over the supply. That means they can dictate that they get more of the money from chicken-- not give it all to the processors because processors screw them out of every cent of profit as in the U.S.

 

[librarykat]

Guys it's me katrina, I'm at the library into town. All I know is that in loosing 43 pounds eating large amounts of meat you can't do it. I tried the Atkins diet, read the book, the whole nine yards and it didn't work for me. Nor for Carter and his wrestling. Where's A+, he could have an imput on this subject........ Eating all foods in moderation is the only way to go. I would love to eat a huge ole T-bone, but no way could I ever loose weight doing it.....

I do only eat meat the size of a deck of cards. And I do eat a potaoto the size of a golf ball. I do have two or three bites of cake...... It's called moderation.......

 

[Anonymous]

Guys it's me katrina, I'm at the library into town. All I know is that in loosing 43 pounds eating large amounts of meat you can't do it. I tried the Atkins diet, read the book, the whole nine yards and it didn't work for me. Nor for Carter and his wrestling. Where's A+, he could have an imput on this subject........ Eating all foods in moderation is the only way to go. I would love to eat a huge ole T-bone, but no way could I ever loose weight doing it.....

I do only eat meat the size of a deck of cards. And I do eat a potaoto the size of a golf ball. I do have two or three bites of cake...... It's called moderation.......

Katrina-- I disagree with you...I know several people that have lost 40-50-60-even 70 lbs just on the Atkins diet...It all depends on the persons matablolism and genetic makeup....
And some of those people that lost it- also began regaining it fast as soon as they started eating any pastas, potatos or breads (carbohydrates)- as their bodies can't handle carbs- so they have decided that if they want to maintain they are going to have to change their lifestyle to a carb free diet...Others were able to go back to moderately using carbs- and maintain...
I personally lost 60+ lbs on Atkins-and completely got off all diabetes medicine-but gained much of it back when the Dr. put me on a steroid program for my arthritis that had me about crippled (puffed me up like a balloon)- and I started eating a normal diet again....But if I ever lose it again- I'll be crippled first before they ever get me to use the steroids again...And the rest of my life will be on the Atkins diet.....

 

[Tex]

There may be a real difference between men and women here. I don't think the Atkins diet would work for my wife but it did for me. Maybe it is the difference of the hunters and the gatherers ( no disrespect here).

 

[rider]

I think the Atkins diet is hard on the body. It somehow leaves a person feeling full, but not necessarily satisfied. I have seen too many times a person loses 25 pounds on the Atkins diet and then put it right back on. Can't continue to eat like that forever!

Dr. Atkins himself died of heart failure.

I lost weight the good ole' fashioned way; eat less, exercise more.

 

[RobertMac]

I think the Atkins diet is hard on the body. It somehow leaves a person feeling full, but not necessarily satisfied. I have seen too many times a person loses 25 pounds on the Atkins diet and then put it right back on. Can't continue to eat like that forever!

Dr. Atkins himself died of heart failure.

I lost weight the good ole' fashioned way; eat less, exercise more.

Dr. Atkins died of complications from a head injury when he slipped on ice and fell.

The long term success rate of the "good ole' fashioned way" is documented to be less than 1%...low carb diets have a long term success rate of about 50%.

What is hard on the body is the excess amount of insulin produced in response to sugar and refined carbohydrates. The average American's diet consist of 150 lbs. of sugar. Diabetes and obesity are at all time highs after over twenty years of medical professional recommending low fat/high carb diets for treatment of diabetes and obesity.

But let's not let facts get in the way of political correctness!!!!

 

[rider]

Robert Mac:

Dr. Atkins died of complications from a head injury when he slipped on ice and fell.

The long term success rate of the "good ole' fashioned way" is documented to be less than 1%...low carb diets have a long term success rate of about 50%.

What is hard on the body is the excess amount of insulin produced in response to sugar and refined carbohydrates. The average American's diet consist of 150 lbs. of sugar. Diabetes and obesity are at all time highs after over twenty years of medical professional recommending low fat/high carb diets for treatment of diabetes and obesity.

But let's not let facts get in the way of political correctness!!!!

Well, I don't know where you got your facts...

I do know that when Dr. Atkins died (at 72) it was discovered that he had heart problems for several years. The media said he fell and sustained a head injury. From there you can take it any which way you want.

As for verifiable statistics on those that lose weight the traditional way, I don't believe that either. Being a mathematics major I understand how numbers can be skewed to say anything you want them to say. I rely more on personal experiences. I have seen it happen time and time again that the weight comes off quick with Atkins, but it goes right back on.

Robert Mac, you are welcome to see things your way, argue against me, and state more silly statistics (come now 1%???).

The politically correct thing to say with this audience is, "Buy beef, it'll help you lose weight and keep it off!" Hurray to all of you that have success. The important thing is to be healthy.

 

[Soapweed]

Robert Mac:

Dr. Atkins died of complications from a head injury when he slipped on ice and fell.

The long term success rate of the "good ole' fashioned way" is documented to be less than 1%...low carb diets have a long term success rate of about 50%.

What is hard on the body is the excess amount of insulin produced in response to sugar and refined carbohydrates. The average American's diet consist of 150 lbs. of sugar. Diabetes and obesity are at all time highs after over twenty years of medical professional recommending low fat/high carb diets for treatment of diabetes and obesity.

But let's not let facts get in the way of political correctness!!!!

Well, I don't know where you got your facts...

I do know that when Dr. Atkins died (at 72) it was discovered that he had heart problems for several years. The media said he fell and sustained a head injury. From there you can take it any which way you want.

As for verifiable statistics on those that lose weight the traditional way, I don't believe that either. Being a mathematics major I understand how numbers can be skewed to say anything you want them to say. I rely more on personal experiences. I have seen it happen time and time again that the weight comes off quick with Atkins, but it goes right back on.

Robert Mac, you are welcome to see things your way, argue against me, and state more silly statistics (come now 1%???).

The politically correct thing to say with this audience is, "Buy beef, it'll help you lose weight and keep it off!" Hurray to all of you that have success. The important thing is to be healthy.

Diet guru Dr. Robert Atkins dead at 72
Thursday, April 17, 2003 Posted: 1:48 PM EDT (1748 GMT) from CNN.com



Dr. Robert Atkins

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RELATED
• Diet doctor Atkins critical after fall
• Atkins Center

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Dr. Robert Atkins, creator of the high-protein, low-carbohydrate Atkins Diet, died Thursday after an accidental fall on April 8 left him comatose.

Atkins, 72, was rushed to New York Weill Cornell Medical Center by his colleague, Dr. Keith Berkowitz, where surgeons removed a blood clot to relieve pressure in his brain on April 9.

Atkins slipped on an icy sidewalk outside his New York office.

"We are hoping for a miracle," Richard Rothstein, a spokesman for Atkins told CNN April 11, "but the chances for a meaningful recovery are slim.

Atkins' original 1972 book, "Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution," was contrary to the recommendations of most nutritional experts at the time. While many remain skeptical about the Atkins Diet, it has become increasingly popular since the 1992 publication of his book, "Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution."

In April 2002, Atkins was hospitalized after he went into cardiac arrest, which he said in a statement was "in no way related to diet."

He is credited with revolutionizing the diet world with his theory that you can lose weight by eating fat, and his followers hailed him as a pioneer. His critics accused him of selling a dangerous idea, but Atkins dismissed their claims.


Atkins' diet books were some of the best-selling books of all time.
"See, that's a big mistake ... to tell people to restrict calories," Atkins told CNN in January. "They lose the weight, they feel fine, then they get to their goal weight and they still have 60 more years to live, and are they going to go hungry for all 60 years?"

Atkins was a cardiologist and businessman, selling supplements and food on his Web site and at the Atkins Center for Complementary Medicine.

All of his best-selling diet books promoted the same philosophy: a diet high in fat and protein and low in carbohydrates is a sure way to lose weight.

"It's not that it needs to be low-calorie. As long as you cut out the carbohydrate the weight loss is automatic," Atkins said.

His philosophy of loading up on meat and cheese instead of breads, pastas, and even fruits and vegetables, went against the nutritional grain among mainstream dieticians.

"The weight loss comes primarily from water," said Kathleen Zelman, a spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association, among Atkins' critics over the years. "But you can also burn muscle, and body protein can be in the form of muscle -- your heart muscle."

Studies over the years have both supported and debunked Atkins' theories. Nonetheless, millions have followed his advice.

Atkins was born and raised in Ohio. He developed his diet system through personal experience.

He majored in pre-med at the University of Michigan, then received his medical degree from Cornell University in 1955. After his residency in cardiology, he moved to New York City.

According to a statement released Thursday by his representatives, Atkins was shocked by a photograph taken of him in 1963 that made him realize he had gained 30 pounds since the days before medical school.

"After several unsuccessful attempts at losing weight he decided to try a controlled carbohydrate diet, which he had read about in the Journal of the American Medical Association," the statement says. "From his own success, Dr. Atkins began to formalize his nutritional approach."

In addition to operating his New York-based center, in which he kept a full patient schedule, he also established a foundation in 1999 to support research and education on how limiting carbohydrate intake can help treat and prevent a wide range of illnesses.

He is survived by his wife, Veronica, and his mother, Norma.

 

[rider]

Soap, are you saying the article speaks for itself?

I already know what that says...

Did you read the writer say the heart problem had nothing to do with the diet? And how do they know this? Are you really going to believe that? Here we have the guru of a diet, a medical doctor (like knowledge is the key), and someone is going to say that he didn't have problems living on his own diet? The truth is none of us really know. We can presuppose, but the truth of the situation not even Dr. Atkins himself knows.

Okay, so I know this fellow that went on the diet. His teeth started hurting. He started to get migrane headaches. Even his joints had pain. He lost weight, about 25 pounds, but felt miserable the whole time. After about 3 months, he started going back to his regular eating habits, put on weight, and there he sits today.

Now we all aren't perfect, not a one. And you can believe whatever diet you want to. The important thing is to live it out. Are you all eating healthy, living in the "normal weight" range for your age? Do you attempt to improve the situation? Or do you just want to talk about the best diet or the best way to improve advertising that will promote the beef industry?

As for me, I do eat less, exercise more, cut out sugar, eat meat sized portions prob. less than a deck of card, never eat fried food, and drink an occasional glass of wine and a beer with my football game. I do morning exercises lifting weights and walk a few miles around the farm every few days. At 45 I probably look better than when I was at 25, to most people. I weigh in the middle of the weight range acceptable for my age. Oh one more thing I do on the "bad side," I drink 2-3 cups of Starbucks coffee every day.

As for beef, I enjoy really good steaks. My husband has to cook them, though, cause he gets it just right! I just don't enjoy eating more than a a few ounces. I am thankful for all you REAL ranchers out there growing quality beef!

 

[Soapweed]

All I know is that I've lost ten pounds in ten days, with no extra exercise, and have eaten all the beef I want. How can you beat a deal like that? :wink: