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For N.AZRancher

I appreciate that Aaron. Without hunting down a tag from my mineral to know exactly what is in mine, this looks very similar. I know our area is calcium and phosphorous deficient so I pay attention to these and mine is also 12% on both of these. The dilitution is new to me. Mine is fed straight as our cattle are always grazing with nothing added except mineral and protien lick tubs in the winter. But consumption comes out about the same if my conversion from grams to ounzes is right. :) I pay about $800 a ton...curious what you get yours for.
 
A lot of mineral tags talk about dilution, but I never do it and don't recommend it.

I'm paying $1272 a ton and that's pretty much standard around here for a 1:1 mineral without salt, regardless of manufacturer. That's wholesale price as well because my neighbor is the dealer and he sells the mineral at cost, and recoups the loss on the trace mineral salt he sells.

I know if I buy it with 15% salt pre-mix, I can get it down to $1080 a ton, but I like to keep salt and mineral separate.

On a related note, I talked to my friend (dealer) during my last mineral load about his figures on mineral cost. We talked it through and he figured he spends about $15 on mineral and $7 on trace mineral salt per cow a year.
 
I took a look at the tag and it looks like you have some good ingredients
in your mineral.

From what I know, 12-12 is an old formula and isn't used
much any more because NRC keeps lowering the phosphorus requirement.
We don't sell any 12-12 and the independent
nutritionists I work with don't recommend that ratio, but rather
2-1 cal to phos or even 3-1. Lessening the amount of phos in
your mineral will save you some money.

Also it seems to me your copper to zinc ratio is off by
quite a bit.
FWIW~
 
Of the big three, Zn, Mn, and Cu, Zinc is the most tied up in our soils with the excessive amounts of Mn.

The trace mineral salt developed for this area is also very high in Zinc.

Have used the 2-1 cal to phos mineral many times before from different manufacturers and consumption is little to none. If I fed 2-1, a 55 lb bag of mineral would last 50 cows for at least a month or more. 3-1 doesn't exist around here. Never even heard of such a thing.

You would know better, FH, but I thought I heard something once about calcium uptake not being a problem in heavy grey clay soils.

Looking at soil report for one of our fields, Cu is 5.4 lbs/acre, Mn is 47.0 lbs/acre, and Zn is 8.1 lbs/acre. Fe and Cl are the two other elements that are quite high at 355 lbs/acre and 33 lbs/acre respectively.
 
$1272 ??? I'll just keep quiet about my mineral costs.

The 12-12 has seemed to work pretty good for us in the past but I wanted to try something different and just got a load of 2-1 fortified block to try for the tail end of the winter. If it works it might end up being a little cheaper. We'll see how the consumption ends up working out. It is a lot looser block than others I have fed before.

I just keep thinking one of these days I will find the perfect solution and can quit shopping around.
 
Aaron, phos is bitter, so the more phos in your mineral, the less
the cows will eat. That is one reason mineral companies started
making mineral with less phos. A mineral higher in phos than cal
(like the old 15-12) is a real no-no. We did some grass and soil
samples here in August (and August usually is a very dry month)
and it showed that we needed 6% phos so we designed a mineral
with 13 cal and 6 phos that has worked really well in this area.
In the spring when the grass is really green, we sell a 18 cal to
3.5% phos mineral. Helps keep the cost down for the producer
and doesn't hurt a thing as far as conception goes. When the grass
starts to dry out, the cows will darn sure overeat it because the
phos in the grass is less at that point too. Cattle won't overeat
phos; it's a limiter like salt and it is what the liquid guys use
as a limiter. We had a customer whose cows were going down
in the winter. They called the vet and he called it milk fever...
only the cows hadn't calved yet. I did some reasearch and what I
found is that it was a condition called Winter Tetnany. This producer
was feeding straight wheat hay, which has a lot of phos and the
cows were not consuming their required amount of mineral, therefore
not getting their trace minerals. The cows had a potassium/magnesium inbalace just like with grass tetnany. They weren't consuming the
mineral because of the phos in the hay and the phos in the mineral
together was too much phosphorus.
We put them on a different mineral (18 cal, 3.5% phos) and the cows
started eating the required amount of mineral and the problem stopped.

Really the % of phos in a mineral isn't all that important. If you have
12% phos and they aren't eating it, it isn't doing a bit of good. If it
contains 6% phos and they eat the required amount, they are injesting
phos.
I hope this helps some of the readers here understand how phos works.
It is very important, and the most expensive ingredient in mineral. But
too much isn't a good thing. Now in your situation, Aaron, your country
must be that much different from ours that 12-12 works for you. We
couldn't get cattle to eat a 12-12 mineral here UNLESS it contains
a lot of grain. Like Purina Wind and Rain has soybean hulls and wheat
mids in their 12-12 mineral. It does make it a little cheaper, but it
sure doesn't do much for the quality or the availabilty to the cow.

Wow, this got long. Sorry about that.

I do want to address NAZ Rancher and his mineral blocks. Vigortone
is the oldest mineral company in the US. Because they are a
mineral company, all thier research goes into mineral; availability,
particle size, etc. They make no mineral in a block. The cows have to
lick too much and get tired a leave before they get their daily mineral
requirement. FWIW

As far as cost goes, if what Aaron spends on mineral makes him
money or makes his life easier because of not having problems
with his cattle, I'd say it was worth it. Once you are on a good
mineral program, the before and after difference is nothing short of
AMAZING.
 
FH, I would love to give Vigortone a try but I have no idea how far I would have to go to get it. I'd need a supplier in Northern Minnesota and the bags would have to be stamped for Canadian use (CFIA stamp) in order to cross the border.

I'm always looking for cheaper products that are just as effective as what I am currently using. In Canada, however, I am limited on options. I will see if I can find a tag for the 2:1 mineral I have used occasionally and which the cows hate.
 
I wasn't trying to sell you Vigortone mineral so much as discussing
what is important in mineral. There are so many misconceptions out
there.

You might talk to BMR, he is a dealer in Canada and deals in the
Canadian formula and 55 lb. bags; I don't know
how far you are from him. Denny is a dealer in Minnesota,
if that helps.

It does amaze me that your cattle hate the 2 to 1 mineral. It is
very odd. I'd like to see the tag, when you have time.
 
Wow, that zinc to copper ratio is unbelievable.

How much salt do you mix with this mineral, Aaron?
We advise our customers to NEVER hand mix salt with the
mineral as you can't mix it well enough. Cattle might get their
salt requirement for a week and not get their mineral
requirement for the day. Ours either has the righ amount of
salt, or with our low salt mineral, we advise them to put
LOOSE salt out beside the mineral.

I can check into why they don't eat it if you would like me to.
I sure don't know. Maybe zinc is bitter. That's a lot of zinc.

Anyway, thanks.
 
FH...thanks for the info about phosphorous. I didn't know that. That makes a lot of things make sense now about costs, cosumption and such. The fortified block I just got is a 2-1 and thats probably why it's a little cheaper.

I'm really not too worried about lack of consumption in block form rather than loose form on these. These blocks are so soft a cow could bite as big a chunk off as they wanted. If anything I wonder if they shouldn't be a little harder to provide some limitation on what they can get in a day. This block is made by Nutrena. I have never used any of their products before so we'll see how it goes.
 
Glad I could be of help.
Let me tell you a little story. A young man in Wyoming got a $30,000
grant to find out how many licks it took a cow to lick an oz. of salt,
mineral block, etc. He had the deal set up where the cows had to
come into a corral to water. He put the blocks in a long trough in
the corral. He had one of those clicker-counters and he sat there
and counted the licks. He discovered it took like 2000 (or more)
licks for a cow
to get an oz. of product. (After so many licks, he weighed the
block). The cows left before they got their requirement for the day.
Blocks, even salt blocks really leave a lot to be desired. We
recommend loose salt put in a trough for producers that want to
feed salt.

Maybe your blocks being soft, will work ok. But I wouldn't get
hard blocks, if you are after consumption.
Think about this for a moment: if the cattle can't
consume what they need, you are wasting time and money even
putting blocks out. Might make you feel better, but it's not doing the
cow any good-nor your pocketbook. Think of it like vaccine. You
wouldn't give a cow a half or a third dose of vaccine and
expect it to work, would you? :D

Just some food for thought. :)
 
AAron, on my first call about your cows not eating the 2-1 cal to phos,
they asked me what is the SOURCE of phos. Not all phos is the same.
Could you provide me with the INGREDIENT tag on your 2-1 mineral?
I can't believe I missed that, because the analysis doesn't mean as
much as the INGREDIENTS do. Odd that you have to contact the
manufacturer to find out the ingredients. That would not be allowed
in the USA. The first tag has the ingredients, so I only need the
ingredients from the 2-1 mineral.

So soon as I get this from you I will continue. The phos in the 2-1
could very well be the problem. We'll find out. This is interesting.

Thanks.

BTW-my sources didn't think it would be the zinc that would keep
the cows from eating it. Have you tasted this mineral yourself?
How does it taste? How does it smell?
 
FH, I will call the manufacturer on Monday and get an idea as to the phos source.

The 2:1 mineral if I remember right is quite bitter and doesn't smell any different than a bag of trace mineral salt.

The 1:1 I use tastes maybe a bit bland or slightly bitter and smells sweet like cherries.
 

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