Red Robin
Well-known member
Congratulations NR. I just noticed the thread. Can I borrow some money?
Good News!!
- Thread starter Northern Rancher
- Start date
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Mrs.Greg-I have had several thoughts coursing around in my "Gimmicky" mind for several years, but have never sat down and solidified them into comprehensible hypotheses. I am involved in some other activities this afternoon, but I shall attempt to answer your request later tonight when I have some time to really focus on the ideas.Mrs.Greg said:DOC,if you have a way to improve them let us knowDOC HARRIS said:The thing is though our cattle are climatised,even with the wind breaks we have now,rarely will the cattle use them...nothing to see cattle huddled together out in an open field even when a wind break IS available.Animals like people adapt to thier conditions.
DOC HARRIS
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
Alot of windbreak fence is used as perimeter fencing too so a bale stack wouldn't work all that great-you can also build them at a bit of a slant and run a rail down the inside-this gives baby calves a place to get out of the wind in a bad storm-sometimes they get tramped or shoved out to the edge if along a straight up and down windbreak. Bales do work good in places where they fit.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
I have read the posts on this thread since I questioned the effectiveness of windbreaks and snow fences, and want to again stress that I am not demeaning the use of them. Far from it. Where I taught Agriculture years ago (Southern Colorado) we were inundated with Chinook Winds roaring down out of the Front Range of the Rockies, and they were so forceful that they would flip over semi-trucks, and the native citizens had to replace windshields, headlights and re-paint front fenders almost every year! And even though it wasn't -40 F. when the winds blew THAT hard, it was hovering near -0 at times with the wind blowing! That was before they started figuring "Wind Chill Factor" temperature. I was at one of my student's Ranches one early morning and his thermometer read -52!! I very honestly thought that I was going to die before I could get OUT of the cold. Frost bit my finger tips, and still have trouble with them. And that was in 1950.
Anyway - - I said all of that to let you know that I appreciate and understand windbreaks of ANY type. The thoughts that I have had revolve around the branch of aeromechanics that deal with the forces (resistance, pressure, aerodynamic lift effects, and to an extent - the venturi effect of pressurized air) which occur in, around and OVER the slab windbreaks with which we are dealing in this discussion.
I think that it is fairly well understood that the reason that you don't want to fasten the windbreaks DIRECTLY to the corner of a barn or building is because the swirling back-flow brings snow directly INTO an open doorway or piles it up against a closed barndoor - then freezes it closed!
The method of preventing that occurance is to establish the 'fence of upright slabs' a few feet (2' - 3') away from the corner of the barn. This allows the wind to FORCE it's way through and PAST the building and out into the barnyard or open area away from the doorways. The smaller the opening is for the wind to force its way through, the more forceful the air movement will be, and the farther away from the windbreak the snow will be carried (this when the windbreak doubles as a snow fence).
Mrs. Greg - you mentioned that your cows rarely use the windbreaks. . .that they huddle together in an open field even when the windbreaks are available. As we know, cows are herd animals, and group together - snow, cold or not. The normal body temperature of a bovine animal is around 104 -106 F., and a herd huddled together can keep fairly warm IF - they can stay DRY. A rise, or hillock, can provide drainage in wet times. Oldtimer mentioned placing hay in a "V" formation with the point of the "V" pointing toward the prevailing winds direction. That is a fine idea. The flights of Geese migrating from one place to another use that same principle with the leaders rotating positions every few minutes. Now, the question in research becomes - WHY do they do that? Answer - because the leaders and the trailing arms from the point of the "V" provides a so-called "dead-air-space" in the rear of the flock and is is easier flying, using less flying effort, preserving energy and body heat, and with less turbulance. Also warmer in winter.
Now let's consider the aerodynamic principle of "LIFT" on an airplane wing. As the volume of air passes over the curved arch of a wing, air turbulance is created on the TOP of the wing causing a partial vacumn, thereby allowing the increased amount of air on the UNDERSIDE of the wing to attempt to fill that partial vacumm and thereby LIFTING the wing - to which is attached the fusilage of the airplane. Voila! We're flying - we're flying! Accepting this theorem as fact, NOW we can attach an airfoil in the shape of a reinforced 2" x 10" or 12" board to the TOP of the upright slab windbreak at an angle of 45 degrees or so running parallel to the ground. This effects the same air movement that truckers use to deflect air over and/or around their semi-trailers. This "airfoil" would extend the air coming over the top of the windbreak AND through the spaces between the slabs acting as a venturi effect, increasing the velocity above the ground and lowering the pressure - and provide a larger reduced-air-turbulance area on the leeward side of the slabs - perhaps 200' or 300' or more past the windbreak. I think it would make a significant difference in available "wind-free" space. It works on automotive vehicles and trucks - why not on cows?
I like the "V" shaped hay bale idea also, but as Oldtimer stated, by Spring the windbreak is almost ineffective because it has been consumed by the very cows we are trying to protect! Ungrateful critters! It is a case of "They can't have their "cake" and eat it too!"
Anyway, these are just some rambling thoughts that I have had for a long time, and maybe we can "do something" about the weather!
DOC HARRIS
Anyway - - I said all of that to let you know that I appreciate and understand windbreaks of ANY type. The thoughts that I have had revolve around the branch of aeromechanics that deal with the forces (resistance, pressure, aerodynamic lift effects, and to an extent - the venturi effect of pressurized air) which occur in, around and OVER the slab windbreaks with which we are dealing in this discussion.
I think that it is fairly well understood that the reason that you don't want to fasten the windbreaks DIRECTLY to the corner of a barn or building is because the swirling back-flow brings snow directly INTO an open doorway or piles it up against a closed barndoor - then freezes it closed!
The method of preventing that occurance is to establish the 'fence of upright slabs' a few feet (2' - 3') away from the corner of the barn. This allows the wind to FORCE it's way through and PAST the building and out into the barnyard or open area away from the doorways. The smaller the opening is for the wind to force its way through, the more forceful the air movement will be, and the farther away from the windbreak the snow will be carried (this when the windbreak doubles as a snow fence).
Mrs. Greg - you mentioned that your cows rarely use the windbreaks. . .that they huddle together in an open field even when the windbreaks are available. As we know, cows are herd animals, and group together - snow, cold or not. The normal body temperature of a bovine animal is around 104 -106 F., and a herd huddled together can keep fairly warm IF - they can stay DRY. A rise, or hillock, can provide drainage in wet times. Oldtimer mentioned placing hay in a "V" formation with the point of the "V" pointing toward the prevailing winds direction. That is a fine idea. The flights of Geese migrating from one place to another use that same principle with the leaders rotating positions every few minutes. Now, the question in research becomes - WHY do they do that? Answer - because the leaders and the trailing arms from the point of the "V" provides a so-called "dead-air-space" in the rear of the flock and is is easier flying, using less flying effort, preserving energy and body heat, and with less turbulance. Also warmer in winter.
Now let's consider the aerodynamic principle of "LIFT" on an airplane wing. As the volume of air passes over the curved arch of a wing, air turbulance is created on the TOP of the wing causing a partial vacumn, thereby allowing the increased amount of air on the UNDERSIDE of the wing to attempt to fill that partial vacumm and thereby LIFTING the wing - to which is attached the fusilage of the airplane. Voila! We're flying - we're flying! Accepting this theorem as fact, NOW we can attach an airfoil in the shape of a reinforced 2" x 10" or 12" board to the TOP of the upright slab windbreak at an angle of 45 degrees or so running parallel to the ground. This effects the same air movement that truckers use to deflect air over and/or around their semi-trailers. This "airfoil" would extend the air coming over the top of the windbreak AND through the spaces between the slabs acting as a venturi effect, increasing the velocity above the ground and lowering the pressure - and provide a larger reduced-air-turbulance area on the leeward side of the slabs - perhaps 200' or 300' or more past the windbreak. I think it would make a significant difference in available "wind-free" space. It works on automotive vehicles and trucks - why not on cows?
I like the "V" shaped hay bale idea also, but as Oldtimer stated, by Spring the windbreak is almost ineffective because it has been consumed by the very cows we are trying to protect! Ungrateful critters! It is a case of "They can't have their "cake" and eat it too!"
Anyway, these are just some rambling thoughts that I have had for a long time, and maybe we can "do something" about the weather!
DOC HARRIS
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
You are correct, Bill! I must have been running a fever when I wrote that!
DOC HARRIS
