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HD Carriers list released

Y

Yanuck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
4,341
Location
Nebraska
from Select Sires:

7AN144 G A R PRECISION 1680 11520398 HDC
7AN209 G A R PINNACLE 13200618 HDC
7AN214 GAR DESIGNATION 13254445 HDC
7AN228 G A R PRECISION 9296 12717041 HDC
7AN233 LCC DILLON G689L 13934918 HDC
7AN248 G A R INTEGRITY 14222612 HDC
7AN257 G A R PREEMINENT 14506274 HDC
7AN265 G A R SIMPLICITY 14800786 HDC
7AN268 G A R RIGHT DIRECTION 15033947 HDC
7AN273 CONNEALY COMPASS 510E 15148739 HDC
7AN287 T D L NINE IRONS 3335S 15515072 HDC
7AN289 TEHAMA SILVERADO S105 15488048 HDC
7AN295 THOMAS SYNERGY 7261 15700047 HDC
7AN298 WAR ARCHITECT T040 15817542 HDC
7AN305 B/R 65R GENESIS 14385395 HDC
7SM50 HSF COMBO P462 2288245 HDC

Genex:
Code Animal Name/ID Reg. Number NH Status
21AN711 R&J CRUZ 109 11314692 NHF
21AN738 PRO TREND 9042 LW 11438436 NHF
21AN749 VDAR LUCY'S BOY 11567326 NHF
1AN743 BON VIEW EMULATION EXT 473 11901155 NHF
1AN758 BON VIEW BALANCE 834 12126334 NHF
1AN764 MAGIC MEADOW COUNTRY BOY 12449151 NHF
1AN773 BT DIRECTION 65D 12162865 NHF
1AN798 SVF SIEBRINGS FOREVER RUSS 13163485 NHF
1AN799 YOUNKIN TRIUMPH 4966 12696111 NHF
11AN1027 LEACHMAN CONVEYOR 3025E 12505904 NHF
1AN1000 BOYD NEW DAY 8005 13050780 NHF
1AN1001 WAR HALL OF FAME 8023 13183408 NHF
1AN1004 TWIN VALLEY PRECISION E161 12346200 NHC
1AN1005 GT SENTRY 12189371 NHF
1AN1009 WAR HANDY MAN 8026 13183335 NHF
1AN1010 BCC BUSHWACKER 41-93 12048084 NHF
1AN1012 LARKS CANYON 7404 12200110 NHF
1AN1015 TOEBBEN ALLIANCE C902 13423598 NHF
1AN1017 AAR REALLY WINDY 1205 12448729 NHF
1AN1018 LT 598 BANDO 9074 13448453 NHF
1AN1022 BUSHS GRAND DESIGN 802 13697595 NHF
1AN1023 SA NEUTRON 377 12760345 NHF
1AN1030 LCC NEW FRONTIER 3215K 13654695 NHF
1AN1034 ROYAL PRECISION 1007L 13916633 NHF
1AN1037 FINTRY OF GRAHAM 47539 2069 13455316 NHF
1AN1039 SAV SUCCESSOR 1175 13845259 NHF
1AN1042 RANGER G 1720 13953039 NHC
1AN1043 KCF BENNET TOTAL J239 13687063 NHF
1AN1044 SAV FINAL ANSWER 0035 13592905 NHF
1AN1045 PAF ALTA'S PRESTIGE 0304 13600998 NHC
1AN1050 FAR KRUGERRAND 410H 13498476 NHF
1AN1055 CA FUTURE DIRECTION 5321 12493607 NHC
1AN1059 ALBERDA TRAVELER 416 12176446 NHF
1AN1061 SITZ VALUE 7097 12755998 NHF
1AN1064 SAV 8180 TRAVELER 004 (6-4730) 13512009 NHF
1AN1068 BALDRIDGE MULLEN M528 14308295 NHF
1AN1071 LEMMON NEWSLINE C804 13632776 NHF
1AN1075 RAB-EGL BLUE MOON 4407M 14422326 NHF
1AN1077 WCC SPECIAL DESIGN L309 13846942 NHF
1AN1080 WCC PRECISION E161 J239 13806971 NHF
1AN1081 GENEX REPLICA 1081 14737017 NHC
1AN1086 WOODHILL COMMANDER 143L-132N 14576247 NHF
1AN1087 BUSHS STRUT 756 14508531 NHF
1AN1088 SOUTHERN PANHANDLE 3432 14446504 NHC
1AN1089 OAK HOLLOW 7709 OF 1318 1118 13521189 NHF
1AN1092 CONNEALY LEADER 14528246 NHF
1AN1094 K C F BENNETT INDEX 14521474 NHF
1AN1095 QUAKER HILL OBJECTIVE 3J15 14660859 NHF
1AN1098 S A V 004 DENSITY 4336 14725035 NHF
1AN1098 MOHNEN DAY AHEAD 144 14848339 NHF
1AN1100 GDAR GAME DAY 449 14691231 NHF
1AN1101 WHITESTONE LANDMARK 623T 14829055 NHC
1AN1102 CONNEALY WHITMAN 14845068 NHF
1AN1103 BONNERS UP THE LIMIT 7P 14745477 NHF
1AN1104 SINCLAIR EXTRA 4X13 14774030 NHF
1AN1105 B C MATRIX 4132 14159119 NHF
1AN1106 SITZ NEW DESIGN 349M 14094252 NHF
1AN1107 MOHNEN BRUSHPOPPER 353 14514372 NHF
1AN1108 TEHAMA VIGILANCE P139 14852720 NHF
1AN1109 TC GRIDIRON 258 14237017 NHF
1AN1110 ARDROSSAN DIRECTION W109 15386718 NHC
1AN1112 4G REGULATOR 14608561 NHC
1AN1113 S A V FUTURE INVESTMENT 5662 15107823 NHF
1AN1115 RITO 4S5 OF 2536 SA 14768733 NHF
1AN1116 SITZ UPWARD 307R 14963730 NHF
1AN1117 CONNEALY THUNDER 15148659 NHF
1AN1118 LT TIMBERWOLF 5014 15147477 NHF
1AN1119 S A V NET WORTH 4200 14739204 NHF
1AN1121 TEHAMA BAND XL R739 15183732 NHF
1AN1122 B C MARATHON 7022 14187839 NHF
1AN1123 H A R B WINDY 702 JH 14321158 NHF
1AN1124 CONNEALY FREIGHT TRAIN 14843254 NHF
1AN1124 S A V JOHN WAYNE 6220 15369092 NHF
1AN1127 BOYD NEXT DAY 6010 15347911 NHF
1AN1128 BC ROCKET 44 15430961 NHF
1AN1128 LIMESTONE CONVERTER S239 15487342 NHF
1AN1129 B C LOOKOUT 7024 14791623 NHF
1AN1130 ER JUSTICE N013 14492305 NHF
1AN1131 S A V BISMARCK 5682 15109865 NHF
1AN1132 B C C EMBLAZON 6062-6022 15599345 NHF
1AN1134 HARB PENDLETON 765 J H 15313140 NHF
1AN1135 MOHNEN DYNAMITE 1356 15585939 NHF
1AN1136 S A V HERITAGE 6295 15369205 NHF
1AN1137 SINCLAIR TELECAST 01S3 14587431 NHF
1AN1138 L T BANDWAGON 3105 14502851 NHF
1AN1139 PVF ALL PAYDAY 729 15779234 NHF
1AN1140 ONEILLS ENCORE 15753349 NHC
1AN1141 S A V PIONEER 7301 15688392 NHF
1AN1142 SAV EFFICIENCY 7056 15787788 NHF
1AN1143 TC ABERDEEN 759 15840414 NHF
1AN1144 KOUPALS B&B BALANCE 7022 15866553 NHF
1AN1145 SITZ JACKSON 431T 15637146 NHF
1AN1146 CONNEALY RIGHT ANSWER 746 15832750 NHF
1AN1148 LEMAR DAKOTA GOLD 18T 15828386 NHF
1AN1149 NICHOLS QUIET LAD T9 15922661 NHF
1AN1150 DUNLOUISE CORTACHY BOY D137 14898814 NHF
1AN1151 D. JIPSEY EARL E161 15726438 NHF
1AN1152 SAV PROVIDENCE 6922 15707145 NHF
1AN1153 D. COMMANDER BOND 15726453 NHF
1AN1154 DAV SCOUT 553 15270965 NHF
1AN1155 DR SIERRA CUT 7404 16047469 NHF
1AN1156 MCC CUPID 414 14848587 NHF

couldn't find anything from ABS yet
 
leanin' H said:
Looks like it stems from GAR Precision 1680. Glad I changed my mind and went with #13103836 to A.I. my heifers. :D
Click to expand...

Yep- 1680 is the furthest back they can trace it-- his dam and sire are HDF....
Just spent awhile doing another fast check back thru pedigees to double ascertain it--but I don't have a bit of 1680 in anything I own...I'm so glad I never liked the Precision/Future Direction bloodlines-- and never chased the bull of the month fad.... :D
 
Holy Crap I read the list wrong I thought they were all carriers-the only Genex carrier used at my place or a customers was Future Direction and not alot of it. I can some outfits being in a bit of a pickle.
 
miocene said:
could somebody please explain HD carrier. i've never heard of it obviously it is a problem
Click to expand...

Its a genetic mutation defect that is showing up in cattle..Huge headed calves, born dead, usually by C-sections.....
The bulls designated HDC are the "carriers" of the defect...HDF means they have tested "free" of the mutation and are non carriers....

HDF= GOOD
HDC= BAD

This site explains and has pictures....

http://www.angus.org/reporting_hydro.pdf
 
leanin' H said:
After looking at Select Sires 09 beef directory, i was amazed at how many bulls had 1680 on one or both sides.
Click to expand...


And arent' you amazed that the problems with this bull took 20 YRS to show up?????


Hmmmmmm????????????????????????????
 
kolanuraven said:
leanin' H said:
After looking at Select Sires 09 beef directory, i was amazed at how many bulls had 1680 on one or both sides.
Click to expand...


And arent' you amazed that the problems with this bull took 20 YRS to show up?????


Hmmmmmm????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

Not sure "amazed" is really the word that describes it best- but this is a family site :wink:
 
Oldtimer said:
kolanuraven said:
leanin' H said:
After looking at Select Sires 09 beef directory, i was amazed at how many bulls had 1680 on one or both sides.
Click to expand...


And arent' you amazed that the problems with this bull took 20 YRS to show up?????


Hmmmmmm????????????????????????????
Click to expand...

Not sure "amazed" is really the word that describes it best- but this is a family site :wink:
Click to expand...

It might be amazing it's taken 20 years (or probably closer to 18 years, when you look at first reports and genetic investigation) but really it would take until a suspect bull was four at the earliest (and that is if he and the dam were genetic defect carriers) to find anything, and not many folks breed sires back to their yearling daughters (50% would have been NHF and 50% would have been NHC).

If 1680 is the first mutation, of either Curly Calf (AM) or Hydro (NH)....

The earliest you would have seen any signs of deformities, if he were bred back to his own daughters, would have been when he was five. And at that point, if he were bred back to his daughters (remember 50% are NHC and 50% are NHF)
-37.5% would be homozygous dominant (HH) non carriers (NHF),
-50% would be heterozygous (Hh) carriers (NHC) and
-12.5% would be homozygous recessive (hh) carriers (NHC) (these are the ones that would show clinical symptoms, and would likely be aborted or born dead.)

So, in short, 87.5% of the calves born would not have any clinical symptoms, (look normal); and the remaining 12.5% would be lethal homozygous recessive NH's.

It is important to remember that a high percentage of the recessive dominant carriers (hh) would be aborted. I read yesterday (and dang it can't find it now) that the number of the hh calves actually born (versus aborted) is believed to be relatively low; especially as compared to some other genetic defects.

So, at best this bull is five when any symptoms of disease are shown. Most diagnosticians will tell you, just because you have a defect, doesn't mean it is genetic. As a matter of fact, many, if not most are caused by infectious disease, nutrition or poisoning.

If you keep doing the math and breed heterozygous carrier sires (NHC; Hh) to heterozygous carrier dams (NHC; Hh) the most you'll ever see of any calves born with defects, is 25%. Now remember many of the infected calves are absorbed or aborted in early stage gestation; so the symptoms may be masking themselves as late breeding females.

I am not saying there are not breeders who have not be ethical, but what may have happened, is that they may have tried to get testing, and the diagnostic lab has said...we don't know, or their vet has said, it's nothing to worry about, or in fact, they may have never known there was a problem until it was far too late. Not getting definitive diagnosis from Vets and Vet Diagnostic Labs is common; and sadly only getting worse as we have fewer and fewer food animal vets.

I think it is also important to remember genetic testing has only be available for a relatively short period of time...prior the only way you found genetic defects was breeding sires back to daughters, and continuing. As a matter of fact in our breed, that is how they isolated the first carrier of Osteopetrosis.

Finally, I don't know Gardiners at all...wouldn't know them if they came up to me and shook hands. But, I do feel for them, as a fellow breeder. In our breed, we are also challenged with a genetic defect...and I feel for the breeder of the first animal found to be a carrier, and the breeder of the animal it is thought to be the first mutation (this animal was born in the 1960's and this is just showing up now...or at least over the past two-four years.)

In the majority of our herd, the first know carrier of the defect (OS) is over 8 generations away...does that mean we are free and clear? NO!!! To our knowledge we've not had a calf born with OS, nor have any of our customers....however, I'll warn each and everyone of us, seedstock and commercial producers, it is really easy for those who live in glass houses to cast stones.

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

PS sorry this is so long, and I did edit a few typos and edited to make it easier to read

PSS I only used NH as an example, this could hold true for AM (Curly Calf) too.
 
Come on TTB your using common sense-isn't that au verbotten-there always has to be a far reaching conspiracy doesn't there. We had a hydrocephalic calf years ago and like you said the vet told us it was nothing to worry about. I find it hard to believe the American Angus Association or the major breeders affected would be naive enough to think a wholesale cover up would work.
 
My problem with all these genetic mutations is that they apparently were never recognized or acknowledged by either the AAA or some of these major breeders that kept using the bloodlines- even after Australian Vets and scientists had identified there was a problem- and tracked much of it back to major US A.I. bulls-- and notified the Bull Studs and AAA...Some of these were identified by the Australians 2-3 years ago-- and all we were getting in the US came from Rumorville....
There has been rumors running around about Future Direction involved with a genetic defect for 2-3 years- before anyone around here had heard of AM or HD or Fawn Calf....That left the speculators to believe he possibly was a dwarf carrier....

You'd have to change human nature to stop speculation and rumors- especially in cattle breeders- so thats where honesty, openness, and transparency would go a long ways toward taking care of the problem...
 
Northern Rancher said:
Come on TTB your using common sense-isn't that au verbotten-there always has to be a far reaching conspiracy doesn't there. We had a hydrocephalic calf years ago and like you said the vet told us it was nothing to worry about. I find it hard to believe the American Angus Association or the major breeders affected would be naive enough to think a wholesale cover up would work.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess so...I have really thought about this a lot...most of our genetic defects follow the same inheritance pattern as color, or horns. Things could lay hidden for decades before they ever show up.

In Red Angus the first reported possible case of Osteopetrosis (OS) was in Kansas, by the K State Vet Diagnostic lab. The problem was that K State didn't keep the carcass or any genetic material, so there was no way to even trace the pedigree of the case...no sire was given, and the dam was a commercial cow. At the time, it could not even be proven the case was Red Angus in heritage. I think (am not sure) even in this case K State could not definitively say the case was OS or BVD infection.

The defect then showed up again (I don't know whether in a commercial or registered herd) and they did some heritage verification. At one point the breeders of the first documented carrier flushed the dam of the carrier back to the carrier, and then bred the daughters of that flush back to the carrier...at that point it became apparent that there was indeed a genetic defect/carrier involved.

Another thing I think will potentially gobble up a lot of resources in these cases are pedigree errors. You AI'd for a March 30th calf; then turned out the cow to the clean up bull. The calf is born April 7th...who is sire? I know in the Hereford's epilepsy cases, they have found lots of innocent pedigree errors...Until recently (last 10 or 20 years?) parent verification was not possible. Even today, many sires are not parent verified. So, some of these old pedigrees may have errors with unintended positive and negative consequences. Most commercial outfits have multi sire pastures, and sure don't DNA test for sire verification, or for that matter dam verification.

My thoughts, for whatever they are worth...likely not a hell of a lot!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
It won't be long until all purebred cattle will need their parentage DNA verified. An old cowboy told me of working for an outfit back in the 50's-at weaning time they registered the calves-sat down at the kitchen table and decided who they wanted the sires to be.
 
Oldtimer said:
My problem with all these genetic mutations is that they apparently were never recognized or acknowledged by either the AAA or some of these major breeders that kept using the bloodlines- even after Australian Vets and scientists had identified there was a problem- and tracked much of it back to major US A.I. bulls-- and notified the Bull Studs and AAA...Some of these were identified by the Australians 2-3 years ago-- and all we were getting in the US came from Rumorville....
There has been rumors running around about Future Direction involved with a genetic defect for 2-3 years- before anyone around here had heard of AM or HD or Fawn Calf....That left the speculators to believe he possibly was a dwarf carrier....

You'd have to change human nature to stop speculation and rumors- especially in cattle breeders- so thats where honesty, openness, and transparency would go a long ways toward taking care of the problem...
Click to expand...

OT:

I have a question for you, because we have seen the same in our breed, and I, myself have even asked the question, why didn't the Assn (in our case the RAAA) come forth when they thought there might be a problem.

How would you like to be the breeder who's stock supposedly had a defect, but then upon testing (DNA, line breeding) didn't? How would you like it if your bull/cow/herd was rumored to be the carrier of all these defects, and then was clean? As a breeder, what action would you take if the Assn based allegations against you/your herd, that were then unfounded?

Upon first view, I was not happy with RAAA for not coming forth with more details, but to be fair, they did not have complete factual details to bring forth. I would be willing to say neither did the AAA. Heck just to potentially isolate the defect probably took 3 years.

What if the Aussies were not/are not correct? I kinda look at as you're an expert when you're 100 miles from home but don't know squat at home...could the same be true?

How do you know the breeders were not honest? How do you know the Assn was not honest?

I am not a member of the AAA, but if you really feel that they were not, you're smart enough legally to take them to court. You're a member, you have a dog in this hunt. It's just like when I used to be a superintendent at the State Fair people would come to me and complain someone had cheated, etc. In every case, I'd tell them, if you're gonna claim another competitor broke the rules, cheated, etc., put some teeth to it and file a formal protest (if you think I'm BSing, there is a member of this site who has seen me do it.) OT you can do the same....only I believe it's called a lawsuit, in this context.

So, are you going to file a protest????

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
Northern Rancher said:
It won't be long until all purebred cattle will need their parentage DNA verified. An old cowboy told me of working for an outfit back in the 50's-at weaning time they registered the calves-sat down at the kitchen table and decided who they wanted the sires to be.
Click to expand...

I could not agree more...heck to Register a QH in this country you have to submit a DNA sample for HYPP. I personally believe we should require a DNA sample be submitted for parent verification and genetic defect testing with all new registrations in our breed (RA). Then this sample could be kept for future use. When I mentioned it, I was practically laughed outta the room!

With today's technology, they could keep the card, and test for new found things, good (DNA trait testing, as it becomes more accurate) and bad (genetic defects, predispositions to diseases, etc.), as they are developed and as issues arise.

I bet the breeds dealing with these genetic issues wish they had DNA samples of old pedigrees. I bet it would like "if pedigrees could talk."

I also find it very ironic that the bane of the cattle business to many, the show steer side, is the first to implement DNA testing for defects...maybe they ain't so crooked after all! :lol:

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 

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