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Irish Black for calving ease?

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Faster horses

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We have a friend that is wondering about crossing Irish Blacks on his Black Angus heifers (which have a slight black Simmental influence--less than 20%) for easy calving. We would welcome any comments, pro or con to doing this. He has found some Black Irish bulls and is considering purchasing them to breed to his heifers. It is just the two of them and he wants to get by with the least amount of problems possible.

We know about easing calving Black Angus and all other breeds, so please limit your replies to Irish Blacks. Razz

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
link to ACCA http://americancelticcattleassoc.com/history.html

copy of history from this site

The Irish Blacks® breed and the Irish Reds® breed has its roots in a genetic theory promoted by world-renowned Iowa State geneticist, Dr. Jay Lush, in the 1930s. Dr. Lush maintained that consistent quality would best be achieved through a concentrated gene pool developed in the process of line breeding.

Colorado cattleman, Maurice Boney, studied under Dr. Lush and decided nearly 50 years ago to adopt Lush's genetic theory, in spite of the fact that the beef industry as a whole moved toward crossbreeding practices.

In 1971, Boney imported a purebred Friesian bull from Ireland and mated him to Angus females coming from the Old Revolution bloodline. Old Revolution was known in the 1940s and 1950s as fertile and hardy, with consistent performance. The cattle were also known to possess "feeding capacity," meaning they efficiently converted forage into quality beef. Boney wanted to establish those traits in his own cattle.

In a carefully planned and implemented breeding program, Boney continued to cultivate the best traits in his closed herd, resulting in a herd of cattle that were 98% pure Friesian blood. Consistently high quality carcass traits was one of the outstanding characteristics of the cattle.

In 2010, Colorado-based Irish Blacks® and Irish Reds® breeder Guy Gould and other Irish Blacks® breed and Irish Reds® breed owners began exploring the market for the high quality beef found in their breed. That effort has led to development of the American Celtic Cattle Association. The ACCA registers Irish Blacks® breed and Irish Reds® breed cattle and their DNA verified genetics in the only set of original and complete herd books. These herd books were completed and recorded along with the founder, Maurice Boney, starting with the very first full blood Irish Blacks® breed and Irish Reds® breed cattle as the original historical accurate set of herd books. It is these herd books that are owned and maintained by the American Celtic Cattle Association® for the accurate use of registering full blood Irish Blacks® breed and Irish Reds® breed cattle in the American Celtic Cattle Association Registry. The DNA verification by lineage was collected in 2010 with all living dams, all living sires, and all deceased sires with stored semen being collected at this time. This included cows and bulls dating back to within one or two generations of offspring of the first American full bloods to be registered by the breed's founder.

It is with this foundation of historical herd books that the American Celtic Cattle Association® began. The ACCA intends to maintain the integrity of the genetics of the Irish Blacks® breed and Irish Reds® breed cattle for producers who seek to maintain the same consistent qualities these cattle have been bred for since their inception.

I wish him good luck
 
Angus X Holstein :?
Reading about them they sound good and probably a good cross breeding option. Would the High bred vigor reduce some of the calving ease?
 
Had a neighbor bought 2 Irish Black bulls and turned out with Angus-Gelbvieh Replacement heifers a few years ago. Called me several times during calving season to help pull calves. The bulls were gone before the next breeding season came around. I'm sure there are hard calvers and easy calvers just like any breed. Just check them out before buying.
 
RBT said:
Had a neighbor bought 2 Irish Black bulls and turned out with Angus-Gelbvieh Replacement heifers a few years ago. Called me several times during calving season to help pull calves. The bulls were gone before the next breeding season came around. I'm sure there are hard calvers and easy calvers just like any breed. Just check them out before buying.
Click to expand...

We realize that 70% of bw comes from the cow, so that could be the problem the Angus-Gelbvieh guy ran into. The rancher that is asking for information about the Irish Blacks has paid a lot of attention to calving ease for many years.

Yes, BMR, hybrid vigor at birth is the question. Would that be an issue?
 
FH,

I wouldn't do it. There isn't the track record to suggest it's a good idea.

We have used "other" breed bulls (since you only wanted to know about Irish Blacks) on heifers and got along great. However, those were sons of well known calving ease sires. By well-known, I mean well-known, not Irish Blacks.

He wasn't perfect, but he was bought for calving ease baldy heifers, so don't tear him apart too much. I think we pulled maybe 3 calves, by hand, no pullers, over right at 85 - 90 breedings from this guy.

http://ranchers.net/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/14989/ppuser/1105



In your area, the most readily available choice, and the proven choice is an Angus (red or black) bull.


Badlands
 
I have a good friend whose family jumped into the Irish Blacks with both feet a few years ago. I will ask him what they do with their heifers, I'm not positive but I think they do still buy angus bulls for them but of course the heifers have a lot of Irish Black in them also so that would probably make a difference. I'll get back to you.
 
badroute said:
I have a good friend whose family jumped into the Irish Blacks with both feet a few years ago. I will ask him what they do with their heifers, I'm not positive but I think they do still buy angus bulls for them but of course the heifers have a lot of Irish Black in them also so that would probably make a difference. I'll get back to you.
Click to expand...

That sounds good, thanks. I thought we would get a lot more comments. Obviously Irish Blacks aren't widely used. Interesting.

Badlands, your link didn't work. :? :???:
 
My personal opinion: With cattle prices this high can you afford a wreck? We have more proven genetics that one can choose from that will virtually guarantee you a mostly problem free calving. Why use a breed that has so little data that you could have a wreck? Takes a lot of heterosis to make up for a couple of dead calves and not mention breed back on the heifers that might have to struggle to have their calf. Too much to risk not enough to gain in my opinion.
 
WB said:
My personal opinion: With cattle prices this high can you afford a wreck? We have more proven genetics that one can choose from that will virtually guarantee you a mostly problem free calving. Why use a breed that has so little data that you could have a wreck? Takes a lot of heterosis to make up for a couple of dead calves and not mention breed back on the heifers that might have to struggle to have their calf. Too much to risk not enough to gain in my opinion.
Click to expand...

That is what he is trying to find out before purchasing. He doesn't want a WRECK......never has had one and doesn't want one. I'm not sure why he is looking at the Irish Blacks. He's a true and good stockman, doesn't have to take a backseat to most anyone. He has a really good set of cows. He thinks outside the box......maybe that's what is going on here. He asked me what I thought and I didn't know, but I said I could ask on ranchers. So I did. :D
 
Maybe he could try a couple on the cows the first year and see what the calves look like. That should be a fair test to see what the bulls will do in there conditions.
 
I agree with the cow idea. Run the bulls with the second calvers the first year and you will have an idea wether this will work or not. Personally I don't like heterosis in the first calf. It is not a trait that is evenly dispersed. By that I mean some express more than others and the potential for surprises is there. We have been crossbreeding here for the last 30+ years and yes it works but no it is not free as some will try to have you believe.
 
WB said:
My personal opinion: With cattle prices this high can you afford a wreck? We have more proven genetics that one can choose from that will virtually guarantee you a mostly problem free calving. Why use a breed that has so little data that you could have a wreck? Takes a lot of heterosis to make up for a couple of dead calves and not mention breed back on the heifers that might have to struggle to have their calf. Too much to risk not enough to gain in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I thoroughly agree. :agree:
 
Badlands said:
FH,

I wouldn't do it. There isn't the track record to suggest it's a good idea.

We have used "other" breed bulls (since you only wanted to know about Irish Blacks) on heifers and got along great. However, those were sons of well known calving ease sires. By well-known, I mean well-known, not Irish Blacks.

He wasn't perfect, but he was bought for calving ease baldy heifers, so don't tear him apart too much. I think we pulled maybe 3 calves, by hand, no pullers, over right at 85 - 90 breedings from this guy.

http://ranchers.net/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/14989/ppuser/1105



In your area, the most readily available choice, and the proven choice is an Angus (red or black) bull.


Badlands
Click to expand...

I'd like to know a bit more about that bull Badlands
 
Badlands said:
PB Gelbvieh. New Day son. 1995 model. He was 4 in the picture.


Badlands
Click to expand...

As good a looking bull as I've seen in some time. Looks like he'd make fine calves.
 
Thanks Silver.

He bred just like he looks.

The high tail head was a bit of a turnoff. He was moderate framed, and never weighed over 1800 - 1850.

But, he did what we needed him to do; he made calves that were born unassisted from baldy and black heifers that weighed the same as their more straightbred contemporaries from mature cows when they were sold in the fall.

Always kind of wished we had collected him.

Badlands
 

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