Is there anyone left who can reason???

[bse-tester]

Some folks on here are interested in good discussion, good debate and sharing information. Others, on the other hand, couldn't give a rat's ash for that and all they want to do is spew their usual BS to me. OK, I can accept that somewhere in this humanity, there are differing opinions.

Now we have one individual, TimH, who for the longest time, slams me for trying to make a profit. Or at least that was and still is his opinion based upon his totally misguided opinion of what constitutes profit. Now he states that making a profit is OK.

Now, we have the ever-present Mrs. Greg throwing her opinions into the pot and saying that my interests are not the same as the rest of you and that is the point that TimH is making.

Well Mrs. Greg, you couldn't be further from the truth.

Anyone on this board who says they do not support 100% testing is willing to accept that some animals will enter the food chain carrying BSE. That is a fact!!

They accept that and they are able to sleep at night knowing that someone, somewhere, in the future, depending on the incubation period of the prion disease in that person, may well become infected with vCJD and die an horrible death. But they don't give a hoot because their animals were not the carriers of BSE.

But then, how the hell did they find that out??

Was it due to the pathetic low testing ratio across the country?
Was it because the animal did not display symptoms when it was killed?
Was it because the tooth-fairy said it was ok to kill the animal?
Was it because TimH said the animal was free of BSE?

Some of you people would do well to get your heads out of your butts and wake up to the fact that yes, it is probably safe to assume that your animals are indeed free of BSE. Yes, you can also assume that your animals will be healthy when they enter the human food chain! If you believe that the small amount of testing includes your animals and the rest of the national herds.

But how the hell can you people know if only a small percentage of the national herds are tested?? YOU CANNOT KNOW FOR SURE!!

If you are willing to let any animal go through the system without knowing for sure - then you are no better than some drunk behind the wheel in my opinion because you simply do not give shirt about anyone but yourself and your goddamn wallet. But then that is my opinion and frankly, I don't see it as a harsh comparison at all.

So I come along, with a test that will identify BSE in animals and vCJD/CJD in humans and all you have to say is that I am a bottom-feeder who cares nothing about the producer and that all I care about is making money off your backs along with a statement today that I am not in this for the same reasons that you are.

OF THAT YOU CAN BE DAMN SURE LADY.

I am in this to save lives down the road and to provide a safe and healthy product from the producer to the table at a minimal cost to the producers that will be absorbed without hardship to your freaking bottom line! Hell, you might be pleasantly surprised to see how your product will be more acceptable to those markets that previously shunned it!! So with accepetance comes profit - ouch Timmy, can you handle that???

As for SRM. I am not even going to debate that one with you folks. Some of you understand the lunacy of it while others see it as the absolute cure for all ills. Enough said on that joke of an issue.

So on that note, I shall retire to what I know best and not waste my time on this board with idiots like TimH and his misguided followers.

 

[PORKER]

Ron , PM me about cash needed For final period.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Ron, its unfortunate to see you go, however I can understand why. Before you go though, would you PM me your email address and a website to which I can visit to keep an eye on your testing? Unlike some, I think a CHEAP 100% reliable BSE test would be a godsend. We could eliminate the SRM removal garbage, and put money back into the pockets of the producer.

Rod

 

[Tex]

Ron, don't let one person or even a small minority keep you from giving your message to the rest of us. I didn't jump in on Tim's attacks on you because I just ignored them, hoping you would do the same.

In economics we have a phenomena called a "free rider", of which Tim hopes he could be one if your efforts come to fruition. This is a persistent problem in dealing with large numbers of people and common interests. This problem should not stop you from working on the common interest to achieve larger goals, even if people like Tim think their self interest is more important.

Just ignore people like Tim.

You do have the option of taking names to not allow people like Tim to benefit in the common interest goal that he is so vociferiously against if and when you are successful.

 

[Anonymous]

Ron- don't let Timmy run you off...If everyone had attitudes and intellects like him we'd be driving around on square wheels....Many of us are interested in the updates on your test- and the new scientific discoveries involving TSE's you bring to the board....

I believe we are about to enter a period of time when true science- not government/corporate politically motivated science will again dominate.....

 

[katrina]

Please don't go BSE tester. There are alot of people who read this forum that don't post...You can't let a couple people run you off... You have to remembet that this is an open forum and that even though there are the buttheads, alot of people realize them for what they are. Just buttheads....
We know you have better things to do than argue, but gotta hang tough for the rest of the souls.... We need ya......

 

[HAY MAKER]

I dont think Tim is trying to run anyone off,he has a right to an opinion like the rest of us do.
Tester if you are that thinned skinned an open talk forum is probably only going to cause you misery,because there will always be a mrs greg waiting to hurl insults and profanity...................just ignore folks like her and stick around,lots of folks are pulling for you.
good luck

 

[rkaiser]

I agree with old Haymaker 100% on this one. We all know you already have a tough hide Ron, and you won't let one anonymous poster run you off.

I just wish I had you and your passion beside me at the ABP AGM when a whole bunch of TIM H's once again voted against the right of private companies to test for marketing purposes.

 

[per]

Tester, there is plenty of support for what you do. You are welcome to a profit, a nobel prize or a GG award. Just keep on with the program and ignore the ignorant.

per

 

[don]

if you accept that everything bse-tester says is true it could still very well be irrelevant. we have approved post mortem tests but they aren't being used to producers' advantage. who's to say a live animal test will be licenced for use under anything but usda or cfia regulation and supervision like we have now? the next concern is if canada were to go ahead and test all animals would american producers be willing to do the same? we already have a way of keeping diseased animals out of the feed or food chains and we aren't doing it. i guess more tests aren't a bad thing but the regulation of their use is a bigger issue right now.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

It isn't the test thats at question here,its the fact BSEtester hints that the WHOLE Canadian cattle herd is infected with BSE. Then if anyone disagrees with him and his theories they are stupid.

And NO you are NOT in it for the same reason the cattleman is ,how can you even 'CLAIM" that????????

 

[Sandhusker]

It isn't the test thats at question here,its the fact BSEtester hints that the WHOLE Canadian cattle herd is infected with BSE. Then if anyone disagrees with him and his theories they are stupid.

And NO you are NOT in it for the same reason the cattleman is ,how can you even 'CLAIM" that????????

It isn't so much what you and I think about the odds of a cow having BSE, it's what customers think. How many countries in this world won't take your beef, MG? Don't you think that if you can say that every animal has been tested and the positives weeded out that you might have a better arguement than "The OIE says..." to opening those borders?

Also, shouldn't the eradication of the disease altoghether be a priority? Do you have a better idea than a live test to accomplish that?

 

[bse-tester]

Actually Mrs. Greg, I do not think the entire Canadian or American herds are totally infected.

I do however strongly believe that when you have say for example, 5 million cattle and you test only 40,000 or even less than 1/2 million and then accept that the rest of the herd is ok, then we have a problem.

Do the math - that kind of acceptance is ludicrous to say the least and it cannot possibly be real. But, people like you Mrs. Geg and all of those who blindly accept the Government's arguments, make it seem real. But what about the consumers of your product - do they not have a right to know that what they are eating is in fact, safe???

I think they do and I am willing to go on record and state that the current system borders on criminal.

I am not going anywhere folks.

 

[Mrs.Greg]

Actually Mrs. Greg, I do not think the entire Canadian or American herds are totally infected.

I do however strongly believe that when you have say for example, 5 million cattle and you test only 40,000 or even less than 1/2 million and then accept that the rest of the herd is ok, then we have a problem.

Do the math - that kind of acceptance is ludicrous to say the least and it cannot possibly be real. But, people like you Mrs. Geg and all of those who blindly accept the Government's arguments, make it seem real. But what about the consumers of your product - do they not have a right to know that what they are eating is in fact, safe???

I think they do and I am willing to go on record and state that the current system borders on criminal.

I am not going anywhere folks.

So what do you call a system that doesn't test ANY animals at all???If your calling Canada criminal....what do you call the US that claims they don't have BSE???

 

[Mrs.Greg]

It isn't the test thats at question here,its the fact BSEtester hints that the WHOLE Canadian cattle herd is infected with BSE. Then if anyone disagrees with him and his theories they are stupid.

And NO you are NOT in it for the same reason the cattleman is ,how can you even 'CLAIM" that????????

Also, shouldn't the eradication of the disease altoghether be a priority? Do you have a better idea than a live test to accomplish that?

Yes I do,and it seems to me Canada is light years ahead of you guys...are you not concerned about your countrymen and what they're eating?

I also feel greg and I have done everything in our power to raise a product thats safe and edible,we don't use any feed other then whats home grown and have very very rarely used antibiotics,and never used growth hormons. I've watched a person die of CJD,and deal almost DAILY with Alzhiemers patients,if theres a test that can identify anything like that I'm for it BUT I DO NOT like anyone coming on here and saying that our product is not safe and we don't give a damn :!: :!:

 

[Sandhusker]

It isn't the test thats at question here,its the fact BSEtester hints that the WHOLE Canadian cattle herd is infected with BSE. Then if anyone disagrees with him and his theories they are stupid.

And NO you are NOT in it for the same reason the cattleman is ,how can you even 'CLAIM" that????????

Also, shouldn't the eradication of the disease altoghether be a priority? Do you have a better idea than a live test to accomplish that?

Yes I do,and it seems to me Canada is light years ahead of you guys...are you not concerned about your countrymen and what they're eating?

I also feel greg and I have done everything in our power to raise a product thats safe and edible,we don't use any feed other then whats home grown and have very very rarely used antibiotics,and never used growth hormons. I've watched a person die of CJD,and deal almost DAILY with Alzhiemers patients,if theres a test that can identify anything like that I'm for it BUT I DO NOT like anyone coming on here and saying that our product is not safe and we don't give a damn :!: :!:

What's your better idea?

 

[Anonymous]

So what do you call a system that doesn't test ANY animals at all???If your calling Canada criminal....what do you call the US that claims they don't have BSE???

Mrs. Greg-- who in the US claims that their is NO BSE.....All info I have seen shows that there are 2 origin cases...And since they were the Type 2 Atypical- I have heard claims that we have not found the typical BSE in origin cattle like Canada and the UK have...Which is true...

And to find those two atypicals - I believe the US tested a huge number of cattle.....

Mrs. Greg, doesn't it often make you wonder-- when you've had 12-13 cases in Canada--that WERE found--and since you don't test ALL or anywhere close to all-- how many old positive cows went/are going to slaughter and into the Canadian food chain :???: ....How much contaminated feed is still sitting in bins/sacks that occurred prior to your July 20007 feedban still spreading the disease..... :???:

 

[Mrs.Greg]

So what do you call a system that doesn't test ANY animals at all???If your calling Canada criminal....what do you call the US that claims they don't have BSE???

Mrs. Greg-- who in the US claims that their is NO BSE.....All info I have seen shows that there are 2 origin cases...And since they were the Type 2 Atypical- I have heard claims that we have not found the typical BSE in origin cattle like Canada and the UK have...Which is true...

And to find those two atypicals - I believe the US tested a huge number of cattle.....

Mrs. Greg, doesn't it often make you wonder-- when you've had 12-13 cases in Canada--that WERE found--and since you don't test ALL or anywhere close to all-- how many old positive cows went/are going to slaughter and into the Canadian food chain :???: ....How much contaminated feed is still sitting in bins/sacks that occurred prior to your July 20007 feedban still spreading the disease..... :???:

For one thing OT,BSE isn't infectious from what I gather,I don't believe WHOLE herds have BSE,its like anything,what causes Alzhiemers and why only one person in a household gets it,and Alziemers isn't really typical in all cases as a matter of fact its been different in EVERY case I've ever dealt with and the brain damage is never the same...Pet Scans can now prove that.

I also believe that if ANYONE,and I mean ANYONE is caught with old feed they should be charged with a criminal charge but that being said...theres SOOO many differnt theorys to what REALLY causes BSE....feed,metals,some believe CWD is intramental in the Alta. BSE cases.Who has the right answers,I've seen Flounder,BSEtester,Kathy AND Randy disagree on the causes and each one of them make pretty strong cases :???:

Sandhusker...the YES was to your first line.

 

[Sandhusker]

MR, "Sandhusker...the YES was to your first line."

OK, then I'll ask you again, do you have a better idea on how to accomplish that than a live test?

 

[rkaiser]

Didn't the thread start off by asking if there was anyone left who could reason?

When it comes to Canada vs. the USA - we are going to need to exclude poor old unreasonalistic Oldtimer from the conversation. Your surveillance system is even more flawed than the Canadian system Oldtimer --- period. You have not found because you and your system have not looked. Hell Austalia, Brazil, etc. etc. have no BSE either. LOL They don't look either. Do you even read the press releases that come out when another Canuck positive is found? When was the last time you even heard of a 4D cow being tested in the USA on a farm??????????

Canada is finding cases because we chose to look, but we are missing the opportunity that awaits us by not offering tested product.

Push for testing in the USA Oldtimer and give up on your cherry picked science.

The best way for Canada and the USA to deal with BSE is to admit that they have it and then not stop at what I agree with Ron to be a half hearted surveillance program, but move to testing for market demand. If that means that some day all product is tested --- so be it. The cost will become less of a problem as volume picks up and we will remove the rope tied around our leg when we try to create more demand for BEEF.