Big Muddy rancher
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Anybody see the Saddle Butte dissertation in the last issue. 
Montana Angus Journal
- Thread starter Big Muddy rancher
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Anonymous
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Big Muddy rancher said:Anybody see the Saddle Butte dissertation in the last issue.
Yep-- they're taking advantage of their closed herd- old bloodlines that didn't chase the "bigger better faster"- linebred- no Curly Calf, Fawn Calf bloodline cattle.....
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:Big Muddy rancher said:Anybody see the Saddle Butte dissertation in the last issue.
Yep-- they're taking advantage of their closed herd- old bloodlines that didn't chase the "bigger better faster"- linebred- no Curly Calf, Fawn Calf bloodline cattle.....
Yes and they are making sure people know :!: I like their cattle but they sure make a point of telling other people where they went wrong. :?
Faster horses
Well-known member
I saw it and it was my intention to retype in here in a post when I
found the time.
found the time.
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Anonymous
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Full page ad on page 33 of the Montana Angus News
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
I'll bite my tongue on the Pinebank deal-some Canadian breeders can give you a different outlook on that. I wonder if Saddle Butte would turn down from ABS that might make one of their bulls a 'leading sire'. In the 70's Wye cattle were the in thing with all the studs stateside at least.
WyomingRancher
Well-known member
Perhaps I'm naieve to purebred operations, but I don't believe it's anyone's intent to breed faulty animals. Genetic defects occur in cattle, whether they're purebreds or crossbreds. Luckily most defects are rare. I have a hard time believing this outfit has never seen a defect in their cattle.
The most unique calf we've had was one with epitheliogenesis imperfecta. It was out of a purebred angus cow and purebred hereford bull. Its skin had rubbed off where it had encountered pressure coming through the birth canal, and where she'd licked it. Bless its heart, it did get up and nurse, but every place its skin rubbed against something, it fell off. It was in intense pain, and Jim shot it as soon as we figured out what was going on.
Regardless of breeds, "doo doo" happens, and no breed is perfect :wink:. I'll probably lose more calves to brisket in a lifetime than to these defects. I commend the breed association for trying to clean this problem up
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The most unique calf we've had was one with epitheliogenesis imperfecta. It was out of a purebred angus cow and purebred hereford bull. Its skin had rubbed off where it had encountered pressure coming through the birth canal, and where she'd licked it. Bless its heart, it did get up and nurse, but every place its skin rubbed against something, it fell off. It was in intense pain, and Jim shot it as soon as we figured out what was going on.
Regardless of breeds, "doo doo" happens, and no breed is perfect :wink:. I'll probably lose more calves to brisket in a lifetime than to these defects. I commend the breed association for trying to clean this problem up
.leanin' H
Well-known member
Can anyone ever remember seeing PAP scores over 10 years ago? I understand that anyone who is selling a product will trump up their product. Some even run down others to make themselves look better! But my opinion is my opinion> Every rancher I know likes different traits in cattle. Birth weight or weaning weight? Maternal qualities or hy-bred vigor? I just think ya hear what ya want to and find "facts" to back ya up in which ever direction you take off in! Angus isn't perfect but the other breeds are in the same boat. How about you buy bulls, semen, heifers, bloodlines, ect. the way that works for you and tip your hat to folks who do things their way. Or not! We could just pick on sheepmen! :wink:
Or not! We could just pick on sheepmen! :wink:S.S.A.P.
Well-known member
Oldtimer said:
.... that's an odd statement considering it is a closed herd?!? [scratching my head]
I'm not saying we didn't like the Pinebank breeding - we did - just never got around to using any yet.
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Anonymous
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I'm sure Harrisons comments will not endear him to the Montana Angus Mafia- but I doubt he was in the inner circles of the $50,000/$100,000 "bigger better faster bull" swapping promotion anyway.... :wink:
Oldtimer said:
will it endear him to anyone who has Angus influenced cattle anywhere? We sure as heck don't need anyone to tell us our cattle are shirt unless we use his breeding, when everyone is using his breeding guidelines exclusively? then he has the right to talk trash about all the rest.
High Plains
Well-known member
Wow! Guess who would be eating some crow if a lethal gene showed up in one of these Pinebank, Wye, etc., etc. bloodlines. This Saddle Butte outfit has just removed itself from my list of anyone I need to stop in and investigate. Through that little dissertation they haven't told me anything at all about why I would choose their cattle over others. They've just thrown some mud at progressive performance-based breeders and told me that they have stuck with really, really old bloodlines. Neither of those concepts gets me excited in the least. I don't care if their cattle are the best that have ever walked, their advertising is rude and pretentious.
HP
HP
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Anonymous
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Yanuck said:
Oh I'm sure there are some out there- that didn't follow the bull of the month fad- or get involved with the "bigger, better, faster" performance cattle- and stayed the course with the old angus who are chuckling about the article.... Several have been warning of and predicting trainwrecks/problems for quite a few years...
And actually it isn't just this outfit- I've seen several this year now that are taking advantage of their breeding decisions and promoting the fact they have no 9J9/Precision, No Fame/Focus, No 315/036/New Design, no Bando 155/Bando 598 or any of the AI Bull of the Month bloodlines in there advertisments, mailouts or catalogs.... Its just this one has probably been the most obvious with a full page ad....
And from the sale results I saw last week- it looks like these cattle have definitely increased in demand since all this genetic stuff surfaced...
Faster horses
Well-known member
OT, you keep mentioning the Fame/Focus breeding. What's the problem with them?
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Anonymous
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Faster horses said:
Nothing I know of- except Fame raised better saddle horses than momma cows :wink: That was part of a quote out of Gregs catalog:
I had a Fame bred bull he was a houndy bull and never fleshed up at all.His son's were plain with little muscle his daughter's look like they may make good cow's. I only kept a few heifers out of him. His biggest fault was his attitude.
I think there is to much empasis being put on this bashing every line other than the antiques. I have semen on Shoshone Viking GD60 which work's real well on Sitz Alliance daughter's. Or I am assumeing because Sitz Alliance sure worked well on our Viking bred cow's.
I have yet to find a problem with Bando 598 son's as I've used several and those grand daughters are productive little cows not big slob's like everyone is saying.
What I want is 1100# cows that have the ability to raise 550# calves on our feeding program.
I think feed is the breed on alot of places which in my opinion add's some to mature frame size on the cow's..
I think there is to much empasis being put on this bashing every line other than the antiques. I have semen on Shoshone Viking GD60 which work's real well on Sitz Alliance daughter's. Or I am assumeing because Sitz Alliance sure worked well on our Viking bred cow's.
I have yet to find a problem with Bando 598 son's as I've used several and those grand daughters are productive little cows not big slob's like everyone is saying.
What I want is 1100# cows that have the ability to raise 550# calves on our feeding program.
I think feed is the breed on alot of places which in my opinion add's some to mature frame size on the cow's..
kolanuraven
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A lot of this " fear" of this or that happening in cattle births will swing the focus of any breed, not just Angus, so far to the other side that many people will cut off their nose to spite their face.
It's like with the economy......people need to calm down and take a deep breath and look around you and see how and IF any of this effects/affects you and your long range plans for your herd.
The way cattle, horses, hogs and chickens are bred these days...I'm honestly surprised that more genetic defects haven't popped up.
It's nature.....and if you're in it long enough sometimes you'll get a genetic curve ball, esp when you get in there and tinker with Mother Nature ....but that doesn't mean the whole deal is gonna be worthless.
Ok....getting off my soapbox now.
It's like with the economy......people need to calm down and take a deep breath and look around you and see how and IF any of this effects/affects you and your long range plans for your herd.
The way cattle, horses, hogs and chickens are bred these days...I'm honestly surprised that more genetic defects haven't popped up.
It's nature.....and if you're in it long enough sometimes you'll get a genetic curve ball, esp when you get in there and tinker with Mother Nature ....but that doesn't mean the whole deal is gonna be worthless.
Ok....getting off my soapbox now.
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Anonymous
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kolanuraven said:A lot of this " fear" of this or that happening in cattle births will swing the focus of any breed, not just Angus, so far to the other side that many people will cut off their nose to spite their face.
It's like with the economy......people need to calm down and take a deep breath and look around you and see how and IF any of this effects/affects you and your long range plans for your herd.
The way cattle, horses, hogs and chickens are bred these days...I'm honestly surprised that more genetic defects haven't popped up.
It's nature.....and if you're in it long enough sometimes you'll get a genetic curve ball, esp when you get in there and tinker with Mother Nature ....but that doesn't mean the whole deal is gonna be worthless.
Ok....getting off my soapbox now.
Good soapbox Kola- I agree-- and we all should know--Its not nice to fool Mother Nature :wink:
Faster Horses-- Jeff Younkin called me today and in the conversation I found out that not only did he and Zane Panasuck partner up and buy the top bull at the South Montana Angus Assn sale-- an YA Image Maker 601 son from Yadon Angus- YA image maker 802-- but they also partnered up and bought half interest (Greg retained 1/2) in the Lot 244 Cole Creek bull- Cole Creek Full Juanada 106V - which is a Juanada Ridge 95R son out the Juanada G 53 T cow...
Jeff is sure high on his compliments of that Cole Creek Black Cedar 46P bull..
Big Muddy rancher
Well-known member
That Black Cedar bull looks pretty good in that picture.
bookcliff
New member
guys,
after reading all of your posts I can sure understand you views about saddle butte. however I do think he has a point. how many of you have had to section out curlies yet or have had $10,000+ bulls go AM carrier because the powers to be ignored Am's when it was brought to their attention 5 years ago (and beleive me it was and a 3,000 cow commercial outfit here in kansas was told that it was environmental not genetic--now they won't have an angus bull on the place-replacd them with hereford bulls). Oh, on the subject of dirty pedigrees, just breed 6595 to a horned hereford cow--guess what you get horned calves. try and explain that one to one of your bull customers. call me gunshy but seems that alot of people seem to want to promote bulls that ain't all pure pedigree wise or defect wise in the name of performance and that just don't fly with me. now before you all grill me for the last statement we progeny test, feedlot test, carcass test and Resdiual feed intake test so this ain't some crackpot writing this.
after reading all of your posts I can sure understand you views about saddle butte. however I do think he has a point. how many of you have had to section out curlies yet or have had $10,000+ bulls go AM carrier because the powers to be ignored Am's when it was brought to their attention 5 years ago (and beleive me it was and a 3,000 cow commercial outfit here in kansas was told that it was environmental not genetic--now they won't have an angus bull on the place-replacd them with hereford bulls). Oh, on the subject of dirty pedigrees, just breed 6595 to a horned hereford cow--guess what you get horned calves. try and explain that one to one of your bull customers. call me gunshy but seems that alot of people seem to want to promote bulls that ain't all pure pedigree wise or defect wise in the name of performance and that just don't fly with me. now before you all grill me for the last statement we progeny test, feedlot test, carcass test and Resdiual feed intake test so this ain't some crackpot writing this.