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NAIS @ Colorado St. Fair

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Sandhusker

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By Kevin Vaughan, Rocky Mountain News
August 30, 2007

It was the kind of feel-good news expected from the Colorado State Fair - the biggest junior livestock sale ever, with $412,950 in purchases and a $50,000 grand champion steer.

But even as the big dollars were rolling in this week, dust was kicking up over the disqualification of two youngsters caught up in a battle over a contentious program aimed at getting farmers and ranchers to register their animals with the federal government.

Fair administrators concluded that the contestants did not properly register their animals.

"We have rules and policies here at the fair that we have to follow," said Chris Wiseman, the fair's general manager. "It's unfortunate that it led to the disqualification of two young people."

On the other side of the controversy stood Cathy Calderwood, whose daughter was one of the kids kicked out of the sale.

"We don't believe we've done anything wrong," she said. "We've followed their rules."

The issue revolves around a program known as the National Animal Identification System. It is designed to stop the spread of disease and make it easier to respond to an animal health crisis.

Those who sign up register their "premises" - providing information on where the animal was raised and can be found - and the animals themselves.

The program has caused concerns about the government's motives, private property rights and liability.

"We see our records on our children and our livestock as private property, and we don't think it should be in any kind of database people can tap into," said Kimmi Lewis, of La Junta.

The program is voluntary as far as the federal government is concerned. But in January, the state fair board unanimously voted to require that 4-H and Future Farmers of America members provide a premises ID, a number that identifies where the animal was raised, as part of their entry.

"What's sad about the whole deal is they're pushing this whole premise ID thing on these kids, and it's not even mandatory for us adults," Lewis said.

In the past week, as fair officials checked entries, they found a dozen with problems. Ten of them were cleared up.

But according to Wiseman, two of them listed the premises ID of the La Plata County Fairgrounds, and that's not where the animals were raised.

So fair administrators made the decision to kick the competitors out and replace them with alternates.

The fair agreed to pay both ousted contestants the cost of the trip home and the amount of money the replacement animals brought in the sale.

Calderwood, who lives near Ignacio, said her 16-year-old daughter, Brandi, followed the letter of the law. She said the entry simply had to contain a "valid" premises ID number

Calderwood said she listed the premises ID for the La Plata County Fairground.

Calderwood said an agent with the Colorado State University Cooperative

Extension Office told her she could list the fairground's ID even though that wasn't where the animal was raised.

The extension office was closed Wednesday evening and no one could be reached for comment.

"It's a valid number," Calderwood said. "There wasn't anything we did that wasn't in good faith."

Calderwood said she and her daughter had been at the fair for several days when administrators told them Monday night, "You're disqualified and security is here to escort you off the property."

State Rep. Wes McKinley, D- Walsh, said there has been talk about legislation next year to guarantee 4-H and FFA members the right to show their animals without a premises ID. "That's heavy-handed bullying government against the kids," he said.
Tracking animals

What is the National Animal Identification System?

• A voluntary system that allows the U.S. Department of Agriculture to track animals.

• Participants register the "premises" where they raise animals and the animals themselves.

SUPPORTERS SAY:

• It's the best tool to prepare for the threat of an outbreak of disease or other animal health crisis.

• Farmers and ranchers who register will be notified quickly in the event of an outbreak or crisis.

• The system helps reassure consumers and trading partners that everything possible is being done to prevent the spread of disease.

OPPONENTS SAY:

• There is concern that the information in the registry may not remain confidential.

• Farmers and ranchers could face an increased exposure to liability if an ill animal is traced back to their property - even if that animal got sick somewhere else.

• Nobody has analyzed the costs and benefits of the program.
 
"We don't believe we've done anything wrong," she said. "We've followed their rules." No you didn't follow the rules and thats's why you got kicked out.

In the past week, as fair officials checked entries, they found a dozen with problems. Ten of them were cleared up.

But according to Wiseman, two of them listed the premises ID of the La Plata County Fairgrounds, and that's not where the animals were raised.

So fair administrators made the decision to kick the competitors out and replace them with alternates.

The fair agreed to pay both ousted contestants the cost of the trip home and the amount of money the replacement animals brought in the sale.
They were given every chance and then treated very fairly. This is little more than people using these kids to seek media attention against NAIS and its quite clear who was trying to take advantage of the situation. Congrats to the officials who had the balls not to cave into the grandstanding.
 
This is about government stooping about as low as they can by using kids to further their back door agenda. You tell me why the State Fair, or any show, would need everybody's place registered.
 
Denmark, has a good handle on cattle and data registry. All dairy cattle are registerd in one of three databases, and herds are classified into one of four category risks for Salmonella transmission. As with zoonotic diseases, Salmonella may only be transient in these cattle, but if your herd tests hot on multiple occassions, your herd classification for risk of food borne contamination goes up. That's not something I feel that producers in the US should need to contend with. Good management and decreasing food borne pathogens...yes. But, allowing the government to track and control data back to the producer to assign blame NO. It's assigning culpability, which with the etiology of these disease, is best controlled at the manufacturer level.
 
Sandhusker said:
This is about government stooping about as low as they can by using kids to further their back door agenda. You tell me why the State Fair, or any show, would need everybody's place registered.

Its for intermingling, Sandhusker. If one of those animals turns up with an infectious disease, and officials know who else's animals were at that same place, it makes tracking much easier.

This kind of thing is important, and its why I support tracking on intermingling.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Sandhusker said:
This is about government stooping about as low as they can by using kids to further their back door agenda. You tell me why the State Fair, or any show, would need everybody's place registered.

Its for intermingling, Sandhusker. If one of those animals turns up with an infectious disease, and officials know who else's animals were at that same place, it makes tracking much easier.

This kind of thing is important, and its why I support tracking on intermingling.

Rod

That's what they say, but all the information they would need to track any animal is on the entry form. Why couldn't they use that?
 
Sandhusker said:
That's what they say, but all the information they would need to track any animal is on the entry form. Why couldn't they use that?

Ok, so lets take a for example:

A producer takes his animal to a state fair and then returns home with that animal. 2 weeks later, that animal is diagnosed with some sort of infectious disease. Obviously, the powers that be will want to find out whose animals that animal was intermingled with. So now lets examine two options:

1) Paper route. The investigator first must find out which fairs/events the producer attended. In the case of a purebred breeder, this may not be an insignificant number. And then, for each show/event, that investigator must get a paper listing of all the producers who attended each show. Privacy rules would be invoked, and I suspect they'd need court permission to seek out that information. If they did need court permission, someone would have to deliver the notification to the event headquarters. Small town events would be tougher, since there wouldn't be a "full-time" organizer easily able to contact. Even if privacy laws do not apply, suspicion of these investigations runs high, so prying the information out of people is going to be difficult. And how long will it take to compile that information? In the case of a small town affair, it may be days before the person who looked after the event is able to drop their full time job and compile the information. For example, I know our local livestock show is NOT computerized, so each entry form would have to be pulled and handed over.

2) NAIS. First, let me say I disagree with the use of those stinkin' ear tags. Horrible pieces of junk. Hide boluses are extremely reliable. So a diseased animal is found. Investigator types in th tag number/bolus id. Bang, in 30 seconds (probably way less) all the shows that animal went to are displayed. Poke another button and bang!, all the producers who attended all those shows are displayed, probably in under 5 minutes. Poke the print button and the list is generated. So in an hour (giving time for coffee and nose picking breaks), the invesigative team is ready to roll. In the case of a very infectious disease, that time may be critical.

Sandhusker, I often see you referring to manual systems or paper trails as acceptable ways to deal with problems. Often a manual system is very workable, even more workable than an electronic system. In my other life as a business analyst, I often recommended manual systems. But in cases like this, they make no sense at all.

For producers who are concerned about privacy, I just shake my head. ALL, and I mean ALL, of that information is accessible by some means. So why would you want to delay that information recovery, possibly putting your own animals at risk? I know if my animals were intermingled in a crowd of animals where an infectious disease was found, I'd want to know ASAP so I could take steps to ensure that my own animals were safe.

Rod
 
They're just going to make a few key strokes and they'll be able to track all the animals that were at several shows over the course of a couple weeks? Rod, remember the Van Dyke debacle? These are the same guys who couldn't track a single load of cattle who had been in the country for less than 24 hours. All they had to do was match a set of documents from two sources and it took them two months - and they still got it wrong!

I think your fears of needing a warrant are unfounded. If there is a problem, nobody is going to say "Get a warrant" and nobody is going to have to sit down and compile a list of entrants - they can simply fax the entries if needed. No matter what, they're still going to have to get on the phone and call people. They claim they need to be able to track an animal in 48 hours, they have the resources available now.

I'm not convinced this whole premesis ID deal is about safety. If the USDA was prioritizing safety, why do they allow product that is contaminated with e-coli to leave the packer - with their inspected stamp on it? Why are they cutting inspection staff and allowing the people they are supposed to be policing to police themselves? Why do they put a "USDA Inspected" label on product that they actually only inspect 1% of? Why allows holes in our feed ban and at the same time import more problems that can exploit those holes? I realize I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, but I guess I'm trying to point out so many areas that they are completely dropping the ball on safety to show why I'm skeptical when they want to pry into my business and claim it's in the name of safety.

Another question is why are they pushing this thing so hard when there are so many unanswered questions with the program and many states can already accomplish their stated means in the desired time frame? Why are they being so underhanded in claiming it is voluntary, but then paying states to make it mandatory? Why spend a bunch of money on a program that tracks a disease when it gets here, when it is easier, cheaper and makes more sense to keep it out in the first place?

This whole thing just reeks of somebody pulling a fast one, and the USDA has a strong history of pulling fast ones. I'm not buying into this.
 
Here are a few things most people do not know about NAIS and some of the reasons why I oppose it...

**** The reasons we are told NAIS is needed keeps changing. (Disease protection, bioterrorism, global market, etc) Yet when Creekstone Beef wanted to test every cow they process for BSE, the USDA says they cannot!!!Creekstone had to take the USDA to court to sue for the right to test for BSE!

1. Loss of property rights...In the NAIS document those who own livestock are called "stakeholder" and the land upon which the livestock presides is "premises". Contracts use certain words for a reason. The lectric law library states that the word premises signifies a formal part of a deed,and is made to designate an estate; to designate is to name or entitle. Therefore a premises has no protection under the United States constitution and has no exclusive rights of the owner tied to it. Stakeholder (the term the USDA is using to identify us) refers to a third party who temporarily holds money or property while its owner is still being determined.
By signing up for NAIS, title to property rights are clouded, basically making the owner little more than a sharecropper.


2. There are disease protocols in place that already work and have worked for years. (Besides more people get sick at fairs because of the food they eat, not commingling with the stock! If the stock have a disease, the paperwork filled out at entry time is info enough to contact a person. There have been no major disease outbreaks due to animals commingly at fairs over the hundred plus years fairs have been held.) can't

3a. NAIS was developed to benefit the marketability of corporate ag for the global market. Disease traceback is the way they are trying to get us to buy into it.

3b. NAIS is trying to be a one-size-fits-all program yet there is a huge difference between granny's back yard hens, a pot belly pig in suburbia, horses which are not in the food chain and the multi-billion dollar corporate ag and factory farms, which this program was ultimately made for. (oh by the way, the factory farms get one lot number per groups of animals, but granny has to microchip every animal she has and report their births, deaths and off-property movements.)

4. Several Constitutional rights/religious rights will be broken by NAIS regulations. How can the Amish comply with this program when they feel it will go against what they believe and they do not have electricity. How about the impoverished who keep a few animals yet can barely afford potato chips, let alone microchips? Then there is the Santeria religion, legal in the US, animal sacrifice is practiced (chickens and goats) often in city apartments. Will those animals be reported?

5. Tracking disease is not new. In 1938-Nazi Germany targeted one segment of society they thought responsible for spreading disease, the JEWS. A law was passed that ALL JEWS had to register their property, i.e. every piece of property they own into a massive database. IT worked. The Gestapo knew exactly who to raid by the value of their art and jewelry. We know the rest of the story, a minor event called the Holocaust!

6. Nearly 14000 signed up without their knowledge or permission in Idaho.
 
Man but is that ever grasping at straws. Premise ID causing lost property rights?????? Infringement against rligious beliefs and possible causing the second haulocaust???????? Amish being forced to get power??????? "Factory farms simply getting one ID number for its herd yet dear old feeble granny has to microchip every animal she has???????? 14000 signed up in Idaho without their permission????????

Where do some of you come up with some this stuff?
 
Sandhusker said:
They're just going to make a few key strokes and they'll be able to track all the animals that were at several shows over the course of a couple weeks? Rod, remember the Van Dyke debacle? These are the same guys who couldn't track a single load of cattle who had been in the country for less than 24 hours. All they had to do was match a set of documents from two sources and it took them two months - and they still got it wrong!

Exactly, paper documentation Sandhusker. Its much easier to screw up. When every animal crosses into a fair, if its scanned and uploaded to the database, I can't see how they could possibly make an error, at least on the entry side.

Sandhusker said:
They claim they need to be able to track an animal in 48 hours, they have the resources available now.

You couldn't track an animal and all those that intermingled with it in 48 hours from one show unless that show kept excellent records. Do you really want to risk it taking longer?

Sandhusker said:
Another question is why are they pushing this thing so hard when there are so many unanswered questions with the program and many states can already accomplish their stated means in the desired time frame?

If every state is using paper documentation only, then there are NO states that can guarantee a traceback in 48 hours under every circumstance. You forget Sandhusker that I've got 22 years of business analyst experience with both manual and automated systems. With a paper system, I guarantee that there will be a few cases that cannot be traced within the 48 hour period. Look at your vaunted brand system. How long has it been since those Alabama cattle and their cohorts couldn't be tracked?

Sandhusker said:
Why spend a bunch of money on a program that tracks a disease when it gets here, when it is easier, cheaper and makes more sense to keep it out in the first place?

NAIS isn't just about BSE Sandhusker. Besides, you ALREADY HAVE BSE! And you also have a whole host of other infectious diseases within your borders. Keeping it out is not an option unless you have a way to keep out all the flies and insects that go across borders.

Its too bad you hadn't had an NAIS in the 1700s. Perhaps you could have tracked down the Anthraxed cattle that your Louisiana cattlemen brought into North America.

Rod
 
Longcut said:
Man but is that ever grasping at straws. Premise ID causing lost property rights?????? Infringement against rligious beliefs and possible causing the second haulocaust???????? Amish being forced to get power??????? "Factory farms simply getting one ID number for its herd yet dear old feeble granny has to microchip every animal she has???????? 14000 signed up in Idaho without their permission????????

Where do some of you come up with some this stuff?

Sorry that it's so far over your head, Longcut.

Have you contacted your government yet to stop that trade barrier of labeling Chinese chicken?
 
Sandhusker said:
Longcut said:
Man but is that ever grasping at straws. Premise ID causing lost property rights?????? Infringement against rligious beliefs and possible causing the second haulocaust???????? Amish being forced to get power??????? "Factory farms simply getting one ID number for its herd yet dear old feeble granny has to microchip every animal she has???????? 14000 signed up in Idaho without their permission????????

Where do some of you come up with some this stuff?

Sorry that it's so far over your head, Longcut.

Have you contacted your government yet to stop that trade barrier of labeling Chinese chicken?
Is that your problem? Is premise ID forcing you to get power? Is your granny forced to microchip her chickens.

My government? What is your biggest fetish Chinese or chickens???????????????Now be a good lad and quit crying it's chasing everyone out of your little Sandbox.
 
Where do some of you come up with some this stuff?
Yes I know it sounds crazy...i wish it all were just a fantasy in my mind but I have read the NAIS document and seeing what is in there and knowing some things about history and doing a little logical thinking have lead many to the same conclusion about NAIS. My grandparents (both sides) came from Italy because the fascist govt owned all the cows.

There are lawyers interpreting the NAIS document and there are reasons certain words are used in any contract.
I suggest you contact the lawyers at the nonais websites and see what they have to say. farmandranchfreedom.org

Premise ID causing lost property rights??????

The terms stakeholder and premise are in the NAIS document. Look them up in any law library and you will see they have nothing to do with ownership.

Infringement against rligious beliefs and possible causing the second haulocaust???????? The Amish cannot do this program as they believe the Bible warns against marking and numbering the beasts. Many will not do this program because of the infringements to several constitutional rights.

"Factory farms simply getting one ID number for its herd yet dear old feeble granny has to microchip every animal she has???????? It is in the NAIS document...all animals moving as one group to slaughter need only a lot number while the rest of us have to microchip every critter. Factory farms have those animal groups moving as one while the rest have animals that commingle.

14000 signed up in Idaho without their permission????????

I have a news article from 2006 that was printed in the Burley ID newspaper. Texas tried signing people up with a phone call pretending to be a survey on what kinds of animals you owned.
 
I'm not convinced this whole premesis ID deal is about safety.
You are right!!! NAIS is not what it claims to be.
Johanns, (see note below) claimed that we need NAIS to protect us from BSE, yet when Creekstone Beef wanted to test every cow they process for BSE, the USDA says they could not!!!Creekstone had to take the USDA to court to sue for the right to test for BSE! Johanns said there were just not enough cases in the US to justify what Creekstone wanted to do!!!!



"Other Republicans who could enter the race are former Gov. Mike
Johanns, now the U.S. agriculture secretary; former
Omaha Mayor Hal Daub; and Columbus businessman Tony Raimondo."

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2835&u_sid=10126829
 

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