jodywy
Well-known member
TWINS
Ranch Picture 3-26-2014
- Thread starter jodywy
- Start date
TWINS
gcreekrch
Well-known member
Look like good, strong ones too.
OldDog/NewTricks
Well-known member
Jody - I posted on this/your Photo on FB in reference to Freematins.
I said "Not Always"!
I found this to back-up my comment.
kanshow:
I think there is a chance she might not be a freemartin. We have quite frequently had heifers out of mixed sets go onto to breed and produce.
What age do you normally check the heifer to see if she is a freemartin? How soon can this be done? We have a heifer/bull set this year that we really like and would like to know what this heifer is as soon as possible. We normally wait until the majority of the rest of the heifers are cycling and check them only if they haven't cycled but as I said, it would be nice to know on this one before we start putting a lot of work into her.
Takes some management to save twins... Since we get a good amount of twins every year, we manage likewise.. We watch the cows who have calved (doesn't matter what size the calf is) to see if they are going to go again. Cows will often have the first one, maybe even clean & nurse it and then go off to have #2 and proceed to claim that one, forgetting #1.
Jill:
If she was fertilized at 2 different times the heifer shouldn't be a freemartin, I believe that happens from the split egg rather than the seperate eggs you are talking about.
Cowboy:
Folks, I feel I need to input a little bit of info for all to think about here.
In reality -- the ONLY possible way a twin hfr to a bull can be fertile is if she resulted from an egg fertilized on the OPPOSITE side of the uterus to the bull -- in other words -- an egg released from each overy during the heat cycle .
This results in the bull having a totally seperate placenta, with no co-mingling of the blood supply to each other. The bull, even at this very young age, will have residual levels of testosterone that will affect the development of the hfrs reproductive structures if they are in the same placenta so being from seperate placentas would be the only way to prevent the injection of testosterone into the hfr.
Normally speaking, a hfr twin to a bull is going to be predominately freemartin -- the bull will always be fertile or at least have all the parts he is sposed to regardless.
The vast majority of cows that have twins fall into two categories -- one being a split embryo resulting in identical twins of the same sex and will have a very high degree of similarity.
The other would be that the cow double ovulated on the SAME ovary -- more times than not this is what happens -- and then you may either get twins of same sex or the bull/hfr deal. THIS set of twins will always have a freemartin hfr. Problem is you may never know which scenario it was until you can palpate or test them later in life.
The odds are against a fertile hfr twin, but it does happen!
Hope that clarifies some information -- it is a facinating business isn't it??
Terry
renegade:
Off topic but a guy out here where I live said he had triplets from a black angus - Has anyone ever heard of this? Probably sterile?
Jill:
"The other would be that the cow double ovulated on the SAME ovary -- more times than not this is what happens -- and then you may either get twins of same sex or the bull/hfr deal. THIS set of twins will always have a freemartin hfr. Problem is you may never know which scenario it was until you can palpate or test them later in life."
Ok, I have a stupid question then, when you super ovulate a cow the eggs are all from the same side, how is it that they are not freemartins, according to the explanation you just gave that should be the case?
Old Dog
Years ago I had a Vet teach me how to spot a Freemartin at the Auction Yard after I got stuck a time or two…
Freemartins are developed in the same "PLACENTA" with a Bull Calf
I said "Not Always"!
I found this to back-up my comment.
kanshow:
I think there is a chance she might not be a freemartin. We have quite frequently had heifers out of mixed sets go onto to breed and produce.
What age do you normally check the heifer to see if she is a freemartin? How soon can this be done? We have a heifer/bull set this year that we really like and would like to know what this heifer is as soon as possible. We normally wait until the majority of the rest of the heifers are cycling and check them only if they haven't cycled but as I said, it would be nice to know on this one before we start putting a lot of work into her.
Takes some management to save twins... Since we get a good amount of twins every year, we manage likewise.. We watch the cows who have calved (doesn't matter what size the calf is) to see if they are going to go again. Cows will often have the first one, maybe even clean & nurse it and then go off to have #2 and proceed to claim that one, forgetting #1.
Jill:
If she was fertilized at 2 different times the heifer shouldn't be a freemartin, I believe that happens from the split egg rather than the seperate eggs you are talking about.
Cowboy:
Folks, I feel I need to input a little bit of info for all to think about here.
In reality -- the ONLY possible way a twin hfr to a bull can be fertile is if she resulted from an egg fertilized on the OPPOSITE side of the uterus to the bull -- in other words -- an egg released from each overy during the heat cycle .
This results in the bull having a totally seperate placenta, with no co-mingling of the blood supply to each other. The bull, even at this very young age, will have residual levels of testosterone that will affect the development of the hfrs reproductive structures if they are in the same placenta so being from seperate placentas would be the only way to prevent the injection of testosterone into the hfr.
Normally speaking, a hfr twin to a bull is going to be predominately freemartin -- the bull will always be fertile or at least have all the parts he is sposed to regardless.
The vast majority of cows that have twins fall into two categories -- one being a split embryo resulting in identical twins of the same sex and will have a very high degree of similarity.
The other would be that the cow double ovulated on the SAME ovary -- more times than not this is what happens -- and then you may either get twins of same sex or the bull/hfr deal. THIS set of twins will always have a freemartin hfr. Problem is you may never know which scenario it was until you can palpate or test them later in life.
The odds are against a fertile hfr twin, but it does happen!
Hope that clarifies some information -- it is a facinating business isn't it??
Terry
renegade:
Off topic but a guy out here where I live said he had triplets from a black angus - Has anyone ever heard of this? Probably sterile?
Jill:
"The other would be that the cow double ovulated on the SAME ovary -- more times than not this is what happens -- and then you may either get twins of same sex or the bull/hfr deal. THIS set of twins will always have a freemartin hfr. Problem is you may never know which scenario it was until you can palpate or test them later in life."
Ok, I have a stupid question then, when you super ovulate a cow the eggs are all from the same side, how is it that they are not freemartins, according to the explanation you just gave that should be the case?
Old Dog
Years ago I had a Vet teach me how to spot a Freemartin at the Auction Yard after I got stuck a time or two…
Freemartins are developed in the same "PLACENTA" with a Bull Calf