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"Sportsmen" - stop landowners from profiting!

Happy go lucky said:
Please post the per acre price you pay for your land? Compair that to city dwellers and see who is paying the bulk of property taxes in any state per sq ft? Yet all the people of that state benefit correct?
Most desriable lands in any state demand high price premiums from outside interest not ag related and NO, I will repeat No state Game agency can aquire such lands with limited funds, these go to private interest who have deep pockets 99% of the time or unless someone who is very conservation minded passes on a "deal" or wills it to a state agency. Staes can not or are in the land market to be able to compete with high dollar private interest people or groups, that is fact!
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In Wyoming for every $1 in property tax paid on agricultural land there is a return to the land of less then 50 cents in services. Every acre of developed land outside of town for every $1 they pay there is $2.50 in services, so you subsidizing who?
 
A few posts bak you had a discussion about public hunting on private land beteen me and Public Hunter. Since then we have all seen why everyone who owns land is a little touchy about anyone coming on their land for free.
Those who don't own land are all for forcing public access and think we(landowners)have it all and don't have to pay taxes or don't have to struggle for a living.
To Public Hunter, we are on the same side. I am all for public access to as good a hunting as possible. The difference is you are with the GF&P about forcing public access in every way possible. The fact is that private property rights and the right to make a buck are getting in the way of the public access. GF&P buying land and renting the big tracts for more than they will pay for good tracts is making the problem of public access WORSE, not better. To all hunters out there, I am on your side, but there is no way you will hunt for free in 10 years unless you are a relative of the guy who owns the land. 75% of all walk in hunting is owned by people who are over 60 and 50% is owned by those over 70. The land will be up for sale soon and the deep pockets who buy it will not allow public hunting. I am 38 and had my land in the program until I was told that it no longer was acceptible to have a lot of hunting on a small tract. 10-15 years from now all public hunters will wish that decision would have been different. 90% of the pheasants shot 10 years from now will be at $500 per gun per day and deer will cost $1500 per doe and $5000 per buck. A smart man told me that 5 years ago and I thought he was nuts. Now I think his figures might be low.
 
Jody in WY what? If your paying let's say 1.95 per acre for ag land, then what is the city person paying per acre? I know of towns where people have 10,000 sq ft of property and they pay 3,200.00-3,600.00 a year oin property tax. At an ag rate you could afford to have 1,900 acres of land for the same price as 1/4 acre in town.
Your land will make you some return yearly on those taxes, be it farming,ranching,hunter fees, farm programs, etc. What can a guy in town do to make a yearly return on that property?
I'm not repeat NOT anti farming or ranching, but to use the excuse some do that they need that high dollar hunter money to make a living is BS in alot of cases, as if there wasn't a demand no one would look at it twice.We have some of the highest grain prices we have seen in a long time, the cattle market is still pretty strong. 3.30 bushel corn average 170 bushel per acre = 561.00 per acre farming 1,000 acres that is 561,000 dollars. Now you know why farm ground is going for 1800.00-2200.00 per acre sold! Yes people are buying at these prices correct? Paid hunting comes with a price and alot of times is unethical and illegal behaviors from some to satistfy clients, again that is a fact! Not all but one can follow the road of pay hunting and see these operations bending and breaking laws to keep those 2500.00-4,000.00 clinets comming back to there places and not elsewhere.
I care about the tradition of hunting and that of wildlife and yes sadly Doug T you are right, but again how many acres does your state outright buy in a given year? I see your figures and "if" they are correct you can see the old school mentailty of what hunting use to be and those that care about the future, are those that aren't chasing the big$$$$ from paid clients and want to do there part to see the heritage continue and those only looking for that almighty dollar and put a fee on every critter that roams there land.
The one thing is many lease rights for paid hunting rights fall short of what one can get to lease there grounds to state agencys and not have to worry about insurance and baby sitting rich spoiled people. Again not all of the time but enough. If your ground has good habitat then you should deserve a bonus, and the sportsman can speak loud on these issues, as they will enquire where did or what happened to that good public access area we used to hunt? After all sportsmans dollars go along ways paying for access areas of these types in many states.

My last post on this issue good day!
 
Doug Thorson said:
To Public Hunter, we are on the same side. I am all for public access to as good a hunting as possible. The difference is you are with the GF&P about forcing public access in every way possible. The fact is that private property rights and the right to make a buck are getting in the way of the public access. GF&P buying land and renting the big tracts for more than they will pay for good tracts is making the problem of public access WORSE, not better. To all hunters out there, I am on your side, but there is no way you will hunt for free in 10 years unless you are a relative of the guy who owns the land. 75% of all walk in hunting is owned by people who are over 60 and 50% is owned by those over 70. The land will be up for sale soon and the deep pockets who buy it will not allow public hunting. I am 38 and had my land in the program until I was told that it no longer was acceptible to have a lot of hunting on a small tract. 10-15 years from now all public hunters will wish that decision would have been different. 90% of the pheasants shot 10 years from now will be at $500 per gun per day and deer will cost $1500 per doe and $5000 per buck. A smart man told me that 5 years ago and I thought he was nuts. Now I think his figures might be low.
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I'm afraid you may be right, but I think there will be a revolt among in-state hunters before that happens. I don't have access problems, I can hunt my own land, but the day the neighbors ask for that, is the day the guns get hung up on the fireplace.
 
Happy go lucky said:
Jody in WY what? If your paying let's say 1.95 per acre for ag land, then what is the city person paying per acre? I know of towns where people have 10,000 sq ft of property and they pay 3,200.00-3,600.00 a year oin property tax. At an ag rate you could afford to have 1,900 acres of land for the same price as 1/4 acre in town.
Your land will make you some return yearly on those taxes, be it farming,ranching,hunter fees, farm programs, etc. What can a guy in town do to make a yearly return on that property?
I'm not repeat NOT anti farming or ranching, but to use the excuse some do that they need that high dollar hunter money to make a living is BS in alot of cases, as if there wasn't a demand no one would look at it twice.We have some of the highest grain prices we have seen in a long time, the cattle market is still pretty strong. 3.30 bushel corn average 170 bushel per acre = 561.00 per acre farming 1,000 acres that is 561,000 dollars. Now you know why farm ground is going for 1800.00-2200.00 per acre sold! Yes people are buying at these prices correct? Paid hunting comes with a price and alot of times is unethical and illegal behaviors from some to satistfy clients, again that is a fact! Not all but one can follow the road of pay hunting and see these operations bending and breaking laws to keep those 2500.00-4,000.00 clinets comming back to there places and not elsewhere.
I care about the tradition of hunting and that of wildlife and yes sadly Doug T you are right, but again how many acres does your state outright buy in a given year? I see your figures and "if" they are correct you can see the old school mentailty of what hunting use to be and those that care about the future, are those that aren't chasing the big$$$$ from paid clients and want to do there part to see the heritage continue and those only looking for that almighty dollar and put a fee on every critter that roams there land.
The one thing is many lease rights for paid hunting rights fall short of what one can get to lease there grounds to state agencys and not have to worry about insurance and baby sitting rich spoiled people. Again not all of the time but enough. If your ground has good habitat then you should deserve a bonus, and the sportsman can speak loud on these issues, as they will enquire where did or what happened to that good public access area we used to hunt? After all sportsmans dollars go along ways paying for access areas of these types in many states.

My last post on this issue good day!
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Was saying building outside of town(subdivisions) don't pull their weight in survives for taxes paid. While ag ground paid more in taxes then services received. Work was done by University of Wyoming
 
Jodywy: That is because cost of goods,materials and services keep rising through the years! Do you stop building new construction because of higher cost? City folks want/demand certain services and they pay for those services through various forms of taxes. If you want to be a robust city you need to keep adding to your town as far as services or amenities or people will go elsewhere.

Do you really think those living in the country on farm and ranches require the services or infrastructure as city's do? Does most of your sales tax revenue come from rural places or city's in any state? Those taxes and bed/booze taxes help all people of each state. If you want to look at federal dollars paid and sent back you will see that the higher portion of those % go to rural states as it just stands to reason. You collect less from rural states but cost of goods and services are not so much lower that they need the higher % of federal tax payer dollars. I think ND ranks first in this statistic.
 
Does anyone know how much land the South Dakota Game and Fish has purchased this past year? The way some are acting, its all the depts fault the prices are going up. I would be willing to bet they make up 1% or less of the land transactions. Wasnt the title of this thread about sportsmen not wanting landowners to profit? Now theres complaints fromt he gfp buying the land for more than its worth? Sounds like a profit to me!

Farmers/Ranchers are their own worst enemy often. How many of you know a neighbor who would buy your place for more than you think its worth? I would bet most do.

Out of state hunters are also driving up the price.

I have not seen any hunters on this site that feel they have any right to private lands. Why does that keep coming up? What hunters want is for those not allowing hunting, to not look for help when the game becomes a problem.

The reason Tony Dean is saying what he is saying, is because the higher prices for corn will make some farmers and ranchers to plow land that was never ment to be turned over. Once they turn over that land, it will never be the same again. Natural prairie is getting harder and harder to find. There is land along the vermillion river in eastern south dakota, that is so hilly, (river bluffs) it should never have been turned. It was turned and the farmer planted corn this last spring. Its all clay, nothing for black dirt, and the corn grew to 2-3 foot. most not having an ear. Does that make any sense? Think before you plow!
 

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