Those tufts of grass out in the cattlepasture.....?'s

[IluvAltaBeef]

I posted this on cattletoday.com and haven't got much for answers, yet, anyways. So I thought I might ask here too to see what you all thought of this:


Everytime I'm out in the pasture with the cattle, usually checkin up on them or else I'll just be hanging around them for some different company, I couldn't help but notice how they graze. Every cow-pasture I've gone by on the road to wherever I'm going to has this same darn thing, I have to ask why.

The thing I notice is the tufts of grass. And every cattle person on here knows that those tufts of grass means that there's a cowpie right in the middle. And these tufts of grass are greener than the forage than the cattle like to chomp on, which, obviously, means that darker green=more nutrients, for the grass' sake of growth and survival. BUT, the cattle won't touch them tufts. And if they do, it's just to take the tops off, nothing more. I'm pretty sure that even when a pasture's overgrazed, those tufts will still be there though in a lesser form, but still there. Even if the pies are a few years old.

And what's even MORE weird, is that they WILL eat the grass that's been fertilized via fertilizer, or manure-spreader. They'll eat it right down, and get a lot of sufficient nutrients from the manually-fertilized grass.

So, why are cattle like that? Horses, they'll eat around they're piles of feces no problem (base on my limited equine experience/observation), but not cattle. Is it because of palatabilty, or is it the smell of their old, dryed up, once-maggot-infested feces that discourages them?

 

[IL Rancher]

Some horses will even eat the horse muffin so to speak, especially the wild horses (Going from what profs told me in college about this same topic).

I don't know the answer but this is one reason folks will say for every cow you run you can run 1 ewe because she will bascially be able to eat the cow pie areas and of course, the weeds the cow doesn't want to eat.

 

[Juan]

In this country during the "dirty thirtys"the cattle ate the dry horse turds.

 

[Jason]

The grass that grows around the old pies is very high in phosphorus and that makes it bitter to cattle.

 

[IluvAltaBeef]

The grass that grows around the old pies is very high in phosphorus and that makes it bitter to cattle.

Even when the pie's been thoroughly decomposed until there's nothing left? And about the phosphorus, where does that come from, that the plants uptake it in huge amounts enough to make it too bitter to eat?

 

[Mike]

The grass that grows around the old pies is very high in phosphorus and that makes it bitter to cattle.

Even when the pie's been thoroughly decomposed until there's nothing left? And about the phosphorus, where does that come from, that the plants uptake it in huge amounts enough to make it too bitter to eat?

Good one Jason! I'm gonna have to learn to make up crap like that one day. :lol:

The reason cows don't eat grass around their "piles" is nature's way of protecting them from parasites/worms contained in the droppings.

 

[TimH]

I realize that this probably isn't feasible for a very large ranch or in real rough country, but a "once over" with a set of harrows in late fall or early spring, will bust up those pies and eliminate those tufts that the cattle won't eat.

 

[Jinglebob]

What I've noticed, is that since everyone went to using pour ons, seems like we see more of this. The cowpies seem to last longer. I wonder if we ain't killed a lot of the tumble bugs who broke the manure down.

I have seen cows eat the horse apples that horse who were eating good alfalfa dropped. They are real green and just look kind of like big alfalfa pellets. Tho' they might smell a little different. it's just grass and water, after all. :wink:

And I think Jaso might be on to something.

On our ranch, if you tear up the soil on top, a greener grass grows back, but the cows don't seem to eat it as good, when it's green, but once it browns up in the fall/winter, they eat it OK.

I have large circles and half circle where I think range cattle and buffalo waited out a storm and stirred up the mud and the grass is always green on it. Seems like they are usually on the downwind side of the hills.

Wish I knew for sure. :???:

There is a type of grass that grows here, can't think of the name right now, but it is usually not eaten until the following late winter/early spring time. I always thought cows ate it then as they were hungrier, but found out that it is a very tuff grass and after it is weathered it is more palatable to cattle and is about 15% protein. Cool! Now I just need to get more of it. :wink: :lol:

 

[andybob]

Jinglebob, during the summer months, all the manure is spread by beetles in my paddocks, I rotate regularly so have little need to use excessive womers. I will see if there is a natural disseminaion of the winter accumulation of manure, or if I will need to spread it.
I had always been under the impression that the non grazing of cow pats is a natural defense against paracites,heavy worm infestations will have selected against those that ingested large numbers of eggs on grass growing through the manure leaving the selective grazers to survive and breed!

 

[Jason]

Do some research Mike. The phos content is the reason.

Harrows work great in areas that can be harrowed. Bugs break down the pies in other places, but the phos stays in the first grass and some cows just won't eat it, even after the pie is gone.

Nature kills parasites with the ultraviolet rays of the sun. Pasture rotation with enough time for it to happen protects cows from building up too many parasites. Over grazing doesn't let the grass grow like it will in Northern climes around pies.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Where we bale graze the grass grows dark green and rank like that. cattle will only top it the following spring-this works good because it gives some extra carryover. We use those fields when cows are really hunting grass in the spring-they'll graze that manured grass from the year before then. Jason is right I think on the extra PH making it a bit better. Natural manure is so superior to boughten stuff it isn't funny. We never harrow our manured patches and get by alright-I'd have to buy a tractor then and start that road to peridition lol.

 

[Mike]

Titre du document / Document title
Can animals use foraging behaviour to combat parasites?
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
HUTCHINGS Michael R. ; ATHANASIADOU Spiridoula ; KYRIAZAKIS Ilias ; GORDON Iain J. ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
Nutrition Society, London, ROYAUME-UNI

Résumé / Abstract
Host-parasite interactions are often seen as an arms race, with parasites attempting to overcome host resistance to infection. Herbivory is a common route of transmission of parasites that represents the most pervasive challenge to mammalian growth and reproduction. The present paper reviews the foraging skills of mammalian herbivores in relation to their ability to exploit plant properties to combat parasites. The starting point is that foraging behaviour may ameliorate the impact of parasitism in three ways; hosts could: (1) avoid foraging in areas contaminated with parasites; (2) select diets which increase their resistance to parasites; (3) select for foods containing anti-parasitic properties (self-medication). Details are given of the pre-requisite skills needed by herbivores if they are to combat parasitism via behaviour, i.e. herbivores are able to: (a) determine their parasitic state and alter their behaviour in relation to that state (behaviours 1, 2 and 3); (b) determine the environmental distribution of parasites (behaviour 1); (c) distinguish plant species or plant parts that increase their resistance to parasites (behaviour 2) or have anti-parasitic properties (behaviour 3). Mammalian herbivores cannot detect the presence of the parasites themselves and must rely on cues such as faeces. Despite the use of these cues contacting parasites may be inevitable and so mechanisms to combat parasitism are necessary. Mammalian herbivores have the foraging skills needed to exploit the heterogeneous distributions of nutrients and parasites in complex foraging environments in order to avoid, and increase their resistance to, parasites. Current evidence for the use of plant secondary metabolites (PSM) by herbivores for self-medication purposes remains equivocal. PSM have both positive (anti-parasitic) and negative (toxic) effects on herbivores. Here details are given of an experimental approach using tri-trophic (plant-herbivore-parasite) interactions that could be used to demonstrate self-medication in animals. There is strong evidence suggesting that herbivore hosts have developed the foraging skills needed to take advantage of plant properties to combat parasites and thus use behaviour as a weapon in the host-parasite arms race.
Revue / Journal Title
Proceedings of the Nutrition Society (Proc. Nutr. Soc.) ISSN 0029-6651 CODEN PNUSA4
Source / Source
Congrès
Symposia, University of Leeds, Leeds, UK, 2-5 July 2002
Summer Meeting of the Nutrition Society, Leeds , ROYAUME-UNI (02/07/2002)
2003, vol. 62, no 2 (dissem.), pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)]

 

[Jason]

Mike, in normal years your grass grows very fast in the South and you generally don't get much frost. Those 2 factors make parasite load there a bigger deal.

In Northern areas, cow pies can lay for several years in lower moisture areas before disappearing. Pastures can be vacant for months during winter feeding, or in some cases, under quite bit of snow.

The varied conditions all have 1 thing in common, lack of cattle and frost kills parasites.

Alberta ag has loads of studies about manure application and phos overload on ground with too much manure. It is a common practice to grow alfalfa in a regular rotation on irrigated ground that has regular manure to draw down the phos levels.

In areas of heavy snow and good summer moisture like Northern Rancher has, a heavier residue from feeding becomes like a high fertilizer practice.

In areas like I have with little snow, and semi arid summers, a heavy feed residue can kill the grass. Our grasses grow once year and hold many nutrients in them as opposed to water content in high moisture areas.

Cows will eat manure (chicken litter for example) if it tastes good to them. They won't eat as much what is bitter to them (phos, magnesium etc.)

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Titre du document / Document title
Can animals use foraging behaviour to combat parasites?
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
HUTCHINGS Michael R. ; ATHANASIADOU Spiridoula ; KYRIAZAKIS Ilias ; GORDON Iain J. ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
Nutrition Society, London, ROYAUME-UNI

Résumé / Abstract
Host-parasite interactions are often seen as an arms race, with parasites attempting to overcome host resistance to infection. Herbivory is a common route of transmission of parasites that represents the most pervasive challenge to mammalian growth and reproduction. The present paper reviews the foraging skills of mammalian herbivores in relation to their ability to exploit plant properties to combat parasites. The starting point is that foraging behaviour may ameliorate the impact of parasitism in three ways; hosts could: (1) avoid foraging in areas contaminated with parasites; (2) select diets which increase their resistance to parasites; (3) select for foods containing anti-parasitic properties (self-medication). Details are given of the pre-requisite skills needed by herbivores if they are to combat parasitism via behaviour, i.e. herbivores are able to: (a) determine their parasitic state and alter their behaviour in relation to that state (behaviours 1, 2 and 3); (b) determine the environmental distribution of parasites (behaviour 1); (c) distinguish plant species or plant parts that increase their resistance to parasites (behaviour 2) or have anti-parasitic properties (behaviour 3). Mammalian herbivores cannot detect the presence of the parasites themselves and must rely on cues such as faeces. Despite the use of these cues contacting parasites may be inevitable and so mechanisms to combat parasitism are necessary. Mammalian herbivores have the foraging skills needed to exploit the heterogeneous distributions of nutrients and parasites in complex foraging environments in order to avoid, and increase their resistance to, parasites. Current evidence for the use of plant secondary metabolites (PSM) by herbivores for self-medication purposes remains equivocal. PSM have both positive (anti-parasitic) and negative (toxic) effects on herbivores. Here details are given of an experimental approach using tri-trophic (plant-herbivore-parasite) interactions that could be used to demonstrate self-medication in animals. There is strong evidence suggesting that herbivore hosts have developed the foraging skills needed to take advantage of plant properties to combat parasites and thus use behaviour as a weapon in the host-parasite arms race.
Revue / Journal Title
Proceedings of the Nutrition Society (Proc. Nutr. Soc.) ISSN 0029-6651 CODEN PNUSA4
Source / Source
Congrès
Symposia, University of Leeds, Leeds, UK, 2-5 July 2002
Summer Meeting of the Nutrition Society, Leeds , ROYAUME-UNI (02/07/2002)
2003, vol. 62, no 2 (dissem.), pp. 361-370 [10 page(s) (article)]

It seems to me that SOMETHING is lost in the interpretation! This document is so verbose and tautologous as to be almost undecipherable. :???:

In My Opinion - Here is the Bottom Line:

1 - Don't graze where bugs live.
2 - Select forage for the purposes of 'self-medication'.
3 - Feed Minerals which will prevent bugs from reproducing.

The breeder should select seedstock which are intelligent enough to realize where bugs are and stay the heck away from them, and eat stuff which will kill the little suckers. :x But the problem is - cows are dumb animals :shock: :dunce: , and need help in doing the above behaviors - so - they must depend on their own cow pies to teach 'em! But, sometimes even the cow pies can't seem to get through to the cows! :???: :cry2:

Usually, the cows just naturally know how to do some of this "Bug Avoidance" :wink: , but they need a little help from their plant buddies - even though some of that help is ok, and some of it is goofy!

In my opinion, we need to develop Expected Progeny Differences (EPD's) which will assist cows in staying "Insect Free"! :clap: :clap: :clap: We might call that EPD, "The Bug Off" trait! :lol2: :nod: :help:

DOC HARRIS