Using a Hackamore

[LadyRichards]

Yes, I have a problem with my horse. She is a x barrel/pole racer, she leaves the pasture just fine, we go all over on rides and she does just fine. But when we get close to home it gets very hard to hold her back, I fight with her the whole way, I can do this but it doesnt make coming home very fun, small trips are even worse if I havnt wore her out. Do you think switching to a hackamore would work. I hear they work really good for making a horse behave.

Thank you need help on this mater, im not a experenced rider have been ridding for 3 yrs and I do go out with her alone, I have managed to come home safe everytime, she is more talk than action, I just dont like the acting up on the way home.

 

[katrina]

IMHO, I would say no......... Am not a professional horse trainier by any means, but I've had horses do that and I lope circles then stop and walk my horse back towards home. When the horse tries and trots or jigs around I then go and lope circles again, then stop and walk towrds home again.. I keep doing this all the way back to the barn..... Pretty soon the horse realizes it's way more work to act up as it is just to walk home quietly........ Also I would recommend a low calorie diet.... Horses that have lots of alfalfla and grain maybe a little more high strung than horses on a hay diet......... Bottom line is be safe when riding by yourself........

 

[LadyRichards]

when you say lope does that mean just turning her around in a circle in place. Thank you for info

 

[PPRM]

I have heard two solutions, both take time and sticking with it....

Most common is make it harder and more work to "Go Home" than the other direction.....This can include loping circles in which the pace is faster when pointed to home and easy when going the other way.....I have heard some guys that will do other things, but the general idea is the same...

An older lady that worked on some ranches/drives with Tom Dorrance showed me this next trick and it worked well on an older mare that I had acquired with a variety of spoiling deals......I was riding a split bit and think that would work best, mine had some shank on it....Shorten one rien so that whenever your horse steps outta a walk, as the leg on the short rien side goes forward the horse in essence hits the resistance of the bit...I usually choose the left lead for this They get tired of "Hitting the bit" and eventually decide life at a walk is best.....This is a light deal and by picking up the pace, they feel like they are choosing to hit the bit/resistance...IT IS NOT JERKING ON THEM...

One other comment........Switching to a more severe bit often means to me that when the horse feels the resistance of the bridle, for whatever reason it does not mean anything to them......Maybe you have constant pressure to balance yourself? Maybe at times you have lifted on the rien without it meaning anything.....The horse basically has to decipher over time what is and is not a signal to move in a direction...Are the signals different in the arena than on the trail home? If so, how does the horse know?

Anyways, I would work on lightening the horse up......reward it for giving to pressure by immediatley releasing pressure....A lot of drills I do for this I do in the halter....For this to be effective, you must be consistent....start evaluating what signals you are sending your horse....Do you "bump" them and then get after them for moving that way? I know looking at life that way has done wonders for me..

Lastly, I am not one that gets overly concerned about bits. Ideally, I want a horse that I can ride in little to nothing. Ultimately, I want my horse to be relaxed and enjoying life when they are around me if that makes any sense,

Hope that helps,

PPRM

 

[Canadian_Cowgirl]

when you say lope does that mean just turning her around in a circle in place. Thank you for info

No lope is like a run, you would run her in circles. Lope is faster than a trot but slower than a run its also called a canter.


Katy

 

[LadyRichards]

thanks im going to try both turning in circles and the thing with shorting one rein, will keep the same bit she has, thank you.

 

[PPRM]

when you say lope does that mean just turning her around in a circle in place. Thank you for info

Ummmmm...That sounds like spinning.....I don't want a horse to ever come to dislike this by overdoing it or using it as a punishment,

PPRM

 

[katrina]

when you say lope does that mean just turning her around in a circle in place.

No I mean lope big circles if you can............... spinning them around or just turning them may create more problems........ Lope big enough circles to make it work for them.... Or if you don't feel that comfortable loping, a fast brisk trot will work... Just make em work..... Work up a sweat on the horse....

 

[Canadian_Cowgirl]

when you say lope does that mean just turning her around in a circle in place. Thank you for info

Ummmmm...That sounds like spinning.....I don't want a horse to ever come to dislike this by overdoing it or using it as a punishment,

PPRM

Yeah you dont want to spin her in circles you want to make a bigger circle. Like pretend you are riding her in a ring on the fence, you want to follow the fence when you loping her not turn her in a tight circle.

 

[azcowpuncher]

Its called being barn sour , and its a tuff one to break , some horses never get over it . Its from someone runnin them back to the house all the time , when you leave in a walk and come back in a lope thats what does it . The more you jerk on their head the worse they are gonna get and maybe even some day just stampede off back to the house . I wouldnt change your bit or what ever your ridin them in , katrina hit the nail on the head with what she said you just have to show them that they are not gonna get away with tryin to lope home , if it takes you till midnight to make that horse walk home every night do it and they will learn . Keeping constant presure on a horses mouth or even a slow light pull every few minnutes makes a hard mouth horse and will make the problem worse and they will get to were they run right thru the bit . So i would say take Katrina's advice and try that and see how that works its not complicated anyone can handle doin that with their horse and its about the only thing that works .

 

[Kato]

My first horse was the Runaway King of the World. :shock: :shock: :shock: And I was too stubborn to give up on him because he was my first horse. He used to take off with me every time we got past a trot, not just when we turned toward home. He was so good at it that he'd reach down and actually grab the shank of the curb bit and then away we'd go!!! I was using him as a lead horse for a trail ride outfit, and he was in very good shape, so some of our little runaways lasted literally for a couple of miles before he got the edge off. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: (This didn't happen with the trail rides because they were pretty slow :wink: )

This was a habit I inherited with him, and this is how I fixed it. Rather than go to a stronger bit, I went right back to basics and put him in a big ringed snaffle bit. Then, since I'd had so much experience in being able to tell when he was getting ready to bolt :roll: :roll: :roll: , I would reach down the left rein just as I felt him begin to gather himself, and pull his head to the left. We'd do about four tight circles with his head almost back to my knee, then we'd do about four to the right immediately. Then I'd loosen the reins right off, and cue him to walk. He hated this!!! If he started to bolt again, we'd do it again. And again. It did not take long for him to figure this out, so it wasn't long before all I had to do was move my left hand up the rein and he settled. This has to be done before he gets momentum though. You don't want a wreck!

Once we got this little problem settled we worked on the barn sour issue. This is an ongoing process. The rules I followed were that I never ever got off in the same spot. At least every second time, I'd ride him past the lane before turning around and letting him go in. I'd also stop before the yard once in a while and get off to walk the last distance. This always surprised him. The bottom line is to never become predictable. If he bolts to the barn with you, turn around and bolt right back out of the yard. Then get off and walk back. Keep him guessing! My horse was an exceptionally smart one with long standing habits, so probably not all horses would need this much preventative medicine, but some might.

I did such a good job of keeping him honest that one day we got caught in a bad storm, and there was no way he was going to hurry home! We travelled the last half mile in crashing lightning and pouring rain at a steady jog. :roll: :roll: :roll:

With reference to using the spinning as punishment, it didn't seem to cause any problems with him. We never did more than four each way at a time, and it only took a few sessions to stop the bolting. He eventually became a pretty good reining horse, and never minded spinning. It's kind of a different type of spin anyway. More of a front ended thing as opposed to a drive from the hind quarters proper spin. My horse definitely knew the difference.

 

[katrina]

Good job Kato.......

 

[Northern Rancher]

Yeah that's the best way-never be predictable at where the days work is going to end-one that wants home bad is almost as bad as one that won't leave the yard.

 

[Jinglebob]

Lots of good idea's here.

When you get home, go to training him. Lope figure eights, work on his backing up, work on making him side pass, etc. When he finds out that he is going to get worked when he gets to the barn, he may decide that he's not in such a hurry.

I have a horse who really wants to get out and travel and he hits a little jiggity jog.After trying several things, the thing that helped the most was just reaching down the rein and picking it up and tipping his nose to the side, as Kato talked about, but not forcing him to go anywhere, just setting passivley, waiting hfor him to stop and wait patiently.

First one side than the other and making him stand for a moment when he stopped and holding his head to the side. What I was taught as "picking up a soft feel".

On one trip in the evening the skeeters were bad and they would be thick on his face, so while his head was turned to me, I would wipe the skeeters off. He soon found that it felt good to get them off and would slow and then stop, as soon as I lightly picked up one rein.

This is not an arm pulling contest. I never jerked on him or applied much force, just put up passive resistence.

Now when he gets ancy working cattle or whatever, I just go to bending his neck from one side and the other until he relaxes.

As stated above, don't start something you are not going to finish or you will just make it worse.

If I start out wanting a horse to give slightly to me, I will stay after it until I gt the slightest response and then go do something else for awhile and come back to it again.

Also, think about the feed and shape he is in. Too much feed and too little work ain't good for horse or man. :wink:

 

[kolanuraven]

My old Appy was also an " x" barrel horse and I also inherited the ' run home' attitude. I went home a different way each and every time, that way he was not sure if we were going to another pasture or what? Plus the circle method will work also.

Never let the horse decide when you are done.

Good luck and be careful, any runaway horse is DANGEROUS, lots of things can go wrong.

 

[azcowpuncher]

Your right runaways are dangerous i would rather have one flat blow up and burry his head and kick so high he rings my spurs that i would have one run off and stick his foot in a hole and fall over on me , or run thru a fence or into anything for that matter .

 

[katrina]

Me too az......... Runaways scare the heck outta me...........

 

[Faster horses]

Reading this reminds me of things top horsemen tell you, like
Pat Parelli says not to use both reins at once, use one rein at a time.
He advocates using one rein even on a solid bit. It's kinda fun after
you get used to it. Sure keeps you from pulling back on the horse and the horse from pulling foreward on you. Looks like several of you have figured that out!! NEAT!!!!

Not all horses that are 'barn happy' (as an old cowboy I knew used to call them :wink: ) have been run to the barn. We had a horse we bought as a yearling and I guarantee he had never been run home. NEVER. But he was such a lonesome bugger that he was a menace to ride. We finally sold him and the young man that bought him made an arena horse out of him. He sent him to a trainer to be trained as a calf roping horse. That family just hated the way this horse was so lonesome. He would walk the fence when he was loose, worrrying about the other horses. He was an idiot to ride to the barn, all that UN-nice stuff. They started calf roping on him, gave him a REAL JOB, and he quit all that other stuff. And they say he is the hottest calf-roping prospect in this part of the country...sooooooo
like someone earlier said, "too much groceries and too little work isn't good for men or horses." Well put, I say.

 

[azcowpuncher]

Did the guys ride him outside of the arena anymore after he was a calf horse ??? Cause most folks wont take a horse they just spent alot of money on to go trail ridin . I have had some lonsome horses before in my time as well but never had one that would damn near run off to get back to the house , unless they have been run back to the house a few times before . She is havin trouble goin home not whiile they are out or thats the way it sounds to me , its not like he jigs all the time , now if he jigs all the time then i would say thats a feed and no job problem , but not with just tryin to beat feet back to the house .



IMHO pat parelli is a dill weed that sells a pretty good game . Folks that buy into that should have their head checked for more holes than they are suposed to have . :roll: ...... I am gonna start widdlin me cedar sticks and call them the magical trainin stick , get someone who talks a good game to use it and i will be rich . :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Faster horses]

Well, believe it or not, Pat Parelli has "been there, done that". Sure, he's gotten way too commercial and he gears a lot of his stuff towards people that want to own horses but not necessarily want to RIDE them, IMO.

Before all this hoopla, he was a bronc rider...and he earned some of his entry fees by working people's spoiled horses. HE CAN DO IT!!!
So, even though you don't like him, I'll bet you can't do some of the stuff with a horse he can. I saw him in Butte, Mt. YEARS ago work a horse that was running off with a guy. He worked this horse OUTSIDE of an arena.
He had to be pretty sure of himself to do that, and guess what? He cured that horse of running off!! The guy is amazing. And he is entertaining. And he is now rich. But he wasn't always rich and believe it or not, he wasn't raised in a 'horse' family. He's pretty self made, ya gotta hand him that.

So, even though his style doesn't fit yours, (and I understand that), it does fit someone else. And look at the interest in horses guys like Pat Parelli have promoted. I'd hate to think where our horse industry would be without them.

Not many have a job for a horse like you do, AZ. I'll be one of the first to admit you can't beat wet saddle blankets. And I do admire that you think of your horse as a partner...not a slave.

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And yes, they did ride the horse outside after the calf horse training.
A young rancher/roper bought him.
And the young man that owns him didn't pay all that much for him from us...he was a dink, remember? At least now he has a future, that's more than he had with us. Mr. FH tried a lot of things with that horse to get him over his 'problem'. We gave him til he was 7 years old and we figured that was long enough. He stumbled and bumbled around, sometimes he'd fall down because he wasn't paying attention. Roping calves at a branding and draggin them to the fire, he'd whinny at the other horses. He never knew where he was, but he sure knew where the other horses were. He just didn't have a hard enough job at our place, I guess. We didn't have enough riding for all those wet saddle blankets he needed...