Weaning Protocols
- Thread starter cleland
- Start date
We booster with an 8-way and an IBR/BVD/PI3 2 weeks pre-weaning. When we wean we run everything into the sorting alley, sort the cows off, and put the calves back into the paster they just came from. Then they fenceline wean for another few days and cows go back out into the boonies. We have had a 0% pull rate for the last several years using this method. The important point is good vaccination at first processing and then boostering in advance of weaning.
Ultrabac 7 with somnugen, Pyramid 4 on the calves
Express 5 on the cows.
By the way our vet's program works we are now BI Prime Protection, and BI Express Verified with our calves. I am not sure if we are Pfizer Gold certified because of the Ultrabac or not.
Express 5 on the cows.
By the way our vet's program works we are now BI Prime Protection, and BI Express Verified with our calves. I am not sure if we are Pfizer Gold certified because of the Ultrabac or not.
PureCountry
Well-known member
We're an all-natural beef program so we don't vaccinate anything. As for weaning we've tried different methods, and we utilize what works best with the weather and forage conditions we have in any given year. My preferred method is to let the cows wean the calves themselves. We calve starting May 20th or so, and by fall here the calves are still small. We've tried weaning at 150 days some years ago, didn't like it one bit. The calves hardly gained a pound all winter - although it was a very severe winter and the pricey feed we bought wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
Anyway, we keep everything over till they're at least 2, so we leave the calves on most winters. The herd is on stockpiled native well into the New Year most years, and then go to swath grazing oats/barley/rye in February. By Late March-early April some cows will be weaning their calves, others won't until just before they calve in May if you leave them on. We generally wait until mid-April at the latest, then pull whatever hasn't weaned itself. The cows go back out on stockpiled native and the calves stay on swaths. By the time the grass is greening in May the cows are shiny, healthy and ready to start all over again.
Please note, there are always cows in this system that run themselves down by fall, by February or maybe later. When we see that happening those cows get their calf pulled. It's a pain to yard a handful of calves, but worth it to keep a cow pregnant and healthy. Once those calves are over their bawling they go in a separate swath grazing field with our yearling bulls or if it's a more mature heifer calf they usually stay with the milk cow.
I'd like to be a lemming and listen to Kit and do fence-line weaning, as i'm sure it works, we just haven't found any need to stop what we're doing. We have a group of cows that do well this way, so why change?
Anyway, we keep everything over till they're at least 2, so we leave the calves on most winters. The herd is on stockpiled native well into the New Year most years, and then go to swath grazing oats/barley/rye in February. By Late March-early April some cows will be weaning their calves, others won't until just before they calve in May if you leave them on. We generally wait until mid-April at the latest, then pull whatever hasn't weaned itself. The cows go back out on stockpiled native and the calves stay on swaths. By the time the grass is greening in May the cows are shiny, healthy and ready to start all over again.
Please note, there are always cows in this system that run themselves down by fall, by February or maybe later. When we see that happening those cows get their calf pulled. It's a pain to yard a handful of calves, but worth it to keep a cow pregnant and healthy. Once those calves are over their bawling they go in a separate swath grazing field with our yearling bulls or if it's a more mature heifer calf they usually stay with the milk cow.
I'd like to be a lemming and listen to Kit and do fence-line weaning, as i'm sure it works, we just haven't found any need to stop what we're doing. We have a group of cows that do well this way, so why change?
PC - don't vaccinate or don't treat? Just curious.
Does the calf on the cow pull her down much over the winter? We wean early for the reason that we can get a cow fat prior to cold weather without her calf on her. We figure for us that a calf on a cow over the winter costs too much $$$, although we have neighbours that are the exact opposite (their calculator must be in a different denomination
)
It is neat to see the differences in what works for people.
Does the calf on the cow pull her down much over the winter? We wean early for the reason that we can get a cow fat prior to cold weather without her calf on her. We figure for us that a calf on a cow over the winter costs too much $$$, although we have neighbours that are the exact opposite (their calculator must be in a different denomination
)It is neat to see the differences in what works for people.
PureCountry
Well-known member
We do not vaccinate, as in no annual run them through and give them this that and the other thing. We haven't done the calves for 3 years and the cows for 4 years. Haven't used Ivomec or any such product for 9 years.
We do treat for illness and injury if need be.
As for dragging the cow down, we're talking quite different cows from yours to mine. Mine are averaging 1100lbs, and don't milk nearly as heavy as yours. Yours raise bigger calves so that calf will certainly take in more milk if it's available, ultimately taxing the cow harder. We've simply selected this way. The key to the system is making sure the cows are good and fat prior to winter. In some of the recent drought years when the stockpiled tested 6% protein and low energy, we swath grazed in the fall, fed some hay through January, then kicked the girls out in February when we got a warm spell and the snow melted off the prairie wool. That worked out alright because they pounded on the weight when they needed to in the fall before winter really set in. This year we ought to be able to graze some high quality pasture for quite a while.
It's all a matter of planning, monitoring and replanning.
We do treat for illness and injury if need be.
As for dragging the cow down, we're talking quite different cows from yours to mine. Mine are averaging 1100lbs, and don't milk nearly as heavy as yours. Yours raise bigger calves so that calf will certainly take in more milk if it's available, ultimately taxing the cow harder. We've simply selected this way. The key to the system is making sure the cows are good and fat prior to winter. In some of the recent drought years when the stockpiled tested 6% protein and low energy, we swath grazed in the fall, fed some hay through January, then kicked the girls out in February when we got a warm spell and the snow melted off the prairie wool. That worked out alright because they pounded on the weight when they needed to in the fall before winter really set in. This year we ought to be able to graze some high quality pasture for quite a while.
It's all a matter of planning, monitoring and replanning.
PureCountry said:
Maybe not so different as you think. A wee bit bigger perhaps, but not as much milk as you might think. We don't breed bigger/better/faster.
I would be pretty nervous to stop our vaccination protocols but only because the way to find out if they work is so expensive. In my mind, at least for us, our vaccination protocol has to cover us from cattle that may not have a protocol and have exposure to issues such as BVD. If all the neighbouring cattle were high health (even organic but high health) I would not worry.
GM88
Well-known member
What is the triview vaccine??
cowsense
Well-known member
Pure Country........No Vaccinations?? Not even Blackleg? There have been major losses in several of our neighbours herds from blackleg & other clostridial diseases over the past several years. Organic production does allow health vaccination protocols doesn't it? Not trying to pick a fight but IMHO a calf is just too valuable to chance losing when a simple & cheap vaccine is available.
PureCountry
Well-known member
Don't worry, you didn't offend me. We're not certified organic. CFIA protocols for "All Natural Beef" state that you can't use any type of vaccination, period. Lots of people label their meats "All Natural" and get away with it. For us, what's on our label is what's in the beef. We can back it all up, and it's not just a matter of doing it so we can be different at the expense of the animals in our care.
I always wanted to try running the cattle this way and seeing what we could do on a genetic level. We certainly saw an improvement in cow health and pregnancy rates when we switched to late May-June calving, due to the cows getting a "rest" for the summer since the bulls didn't go out that year until August 15th. But after a couple years we saw the open rate rise, and some death loss in calves. Calves in December/January storms would be healthy one day, then runny nose the next, then dead. We learnt quick to keep some stuff on hand because it seemed like if they got even a sniffle, they could be gone in 48 hours.
The genetics side of this was fascinating to watch though because the same calves that were dying or getting sick were out of the cows that were thin and open. Poorly functioning endocrine systems, which had been masked for years with our Feed-Them-All-Winter-Long regime. I believe that animals fed high quality forage from high quality soil should have everything they need. There's no reason that system can't work because we can test soil and forage. There's no excuse not to know what's going in their mouths, and nothing stopping us from amending soils or supplementing poor forage with better forage.
As for disease outbreak and such, we have less risk than RSL and most folks I think because we have a small herd grazing a large block of land(by local standards) with no cross roads and only adjacent to 1 other cowherd - my Grandad's red Angus cows. And they're so big the air they breathe is in a different climate than mine so I think they're safe. :lol:
Anyway, we're running a little group of cows now that thrive in this system. I most likely won't buy in purebred Galloway genetics anymore because when ever I have - for the most part - the cattle haven't taken well to going on forage alone. THere are a handful of breeders doing what we do, and I may source a bull from one of them eventually. For now, there's no need. Our genetics are improving, as are our forage and soils. If those 3 things are improving, it means selling beef is going to get easier.
I always wanted to try running the cattle this way and seeing what we could do on a genetic level. We certainly saw an improvement in cow health and pregnancy rates when we switched to late May-June calving, due to the cows getting a "rest" for the summer since the bulls didn't go out that year until August 15th. But after a couple years we saw the open rate rise, and some death loss in calves. Calves in December/January storms would be healthy one day, then runny nose the next, then dead. We learnt quick to keep some stuff on hand because it seemed like if they got even a sniffle, they could be gone in 48 hours.
The genetics side of this was fascinating to watch though because the same calves that were dying or getting sick were out of the cows that were thin and open. Poorly functioning endocrine systems, which had been masked for years with our Feed-Them-All-Winter-Long regime. I believe that animals fed high quality forage from high quality soil should have everything they need. There's no reason that system can't work because we can test soil and forage. There's no excuse not to know what's going in their mouths, and nothing stopping us from amending soils or supplementing poor forage with better forage.
As for disease outbreak and such, we have less risk than RSL and most folks I think because we have a small herd grazing a large block of land(by local standards) with no cross roads and only adjacent to 1 other cowherd - my Grandad's red Angus cows. And they're so big the air they breathe is in a different climate than mine so I think they're safe. :lol:
Anyway, we're running a little group of cows now that thrive in this system. I most likely won't buy in purebred Galloway genetics anymore because when ever I have - for the most part - the cattle haven't taken well to going on forage alone. THere are a handful of breeders doing what we do, and I may source a bull from one of them eventually. For now, there's no need. Our genetics are improving, as are our forage and soils. If those 3 things are improving, it means selling beef is going to get easier.
PureCountry
Well-known member
cleland said:
What did you mean by this? Did you mean what vaccines do the cows get, or the calves while still on the cow?
John SD
Well-known member
Yesterday we did fall shots on a batch of the neighbor's calves with Pyramid 5 and Vision 7 HS. That's probably what I'll use on my calves.
MLV vaccines can be used on nursing calves as long as the shots on the cows are current within the past year. Neighbor's cows had ViraShield 5 shot last fall at preg checking time. My cows got PregGuard Gold FP 10 this spring a couple weeks before the bulls were turned out.
MLV vaccines can be used on nursing calves as long as the shots on the cows are current within the past year. Neighbor's cows had ViraShield 5 shot last fall at preg checking time. My cows got PregGuard Gold FP 10 this spring a couple weeks before the bulls were turned out.
I try to do all my shots prior to weaning. Fenceline weaning and the calves are real used to the bunks they are eating from and stay in the same pasture.
IBR/BVD/BRSV
Pastuerella
8 Way
Dewormer
We also hit with a Pink-eye vaccine
I think it is important to have claves on a good nutrtional plane before weaning. Including minerals. If they aren't truly hungry, then they get over it faster and easier. Otherwise, they really did need "Mamma" and it will show
IBR/BVD/BRSV
Pastuerella
8 Way
Dewormer
We also hit with a Pink-eye vaccine
I think it is important to have claves on a good nutrtional plane before weaning. Including minerals. If they aren't truly hungry, then they get over it faster and easier. Otherwise, they really did need "Mamma" and it will show
Kato
Well-known member
Cows here get Cattlemaster 4 VL5 in the spring. Bulls too, as well as pinkeye and footrot vaccine. We do it on the way to pasture, so some cows are still bred. That's why we use the killed vaccine.
Calves get OneShot, Bovishield Gold, and Ultrabac/Somubac at pasture turnout. They get a booster at weaning. We haven't treated a calf in a long long time with this, except the odd one that wasn't old enough for the spring shot. Goes to show how well the double vaccination works.
We buy feeders to background, so we absolutely need to vaccinate everything in the yard. And vaccinate them well. By the time our replacement heifers are bred, they've had three goes of IBR/BVD vaccine.
Our own personal experience from buying feeders is that if we come across a herd that has no vaccination program, we will run the other way. It's one thing in a closed herd that stays on the farm until finish, but when these cattle hit a feedlot it is a disaster waiting to happen. You can pick these cattle out in the sick pen. They'll all have matching eartags. And they will not usually have any brothers left out in the main pen.
It works for PureCountry I expect, because of the lack of exposure to the kind of riff raff you meet at the auction mart. Our herd is not so lucky. They get to meet the riff raff. :wink:
We wean a couple of ways. We've sometimes just gone to the pasture, loaded the calves and left the cows behind. That works really well. The cows just hang around the corral and drive the neighbours crazy. The calves quit pretty quick because they're not getting any answers to their bawls. The pairs that all come home together get fenceline weaned. The cows choose between standing by the corral, and being out in the corn field. It doesn't take too much time before they prefer the corn.
Calves get OneShot, Bovishield Gold, and Ultrabac/Somubac at pasture turnout. They get a booster at weaning. We haven't treated a calf in a long long time with this, except the odd one that wasn't old enough for the spring shot. Goes to show how well the double vaccination works.
We buy feeders to background, so we absolutely need to vaccinate everything in the yard. And vaccinate them well. By the time our replacement heifers are bred, they've had three goes of IBR/BVD vaccine.
Our own personal experience from buying feeders is that if we come across a herd that has no vaccination program, we will run the other way. It's one thing in a closed herd that stays on the farm until finish, but when these cattle hit a feedlot it is a disaster waiting to happen. You can pick these cattle out in the sick pen. They'll all have matching eartags. And they will not usually have any brothers left out in the main pen.
It works for PureCountry I expect, because of the lack of exposure to the kind of riff raff you meet at the auction mart. Our herd is not so lucky. They get to meet the riff raff. :wink:
We wean a couple of ways. We've sometimes just gone to the pasture, loaded the calves and left the cows behind. That works really well. The cows just hang around the corral and drive the neighbours crazy.
The calves quit pretty quick because they're not getting any answers to their bawls. The pairs that all come home together get fenceline weaned. The cows choose between standing by the corral, and being out in the corn field. It doesn't take too much time before they prefer the corn.