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What Happens

Northern Rancher

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Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
12,247
Location
saskatchewan
I just heard a purebred Angus outfit up here just found out a herdbull they bought stateside isn't out of the bull on his papers. They've used him for quite a few years and sold lots of progeny. How the heck do you straighten out that mess-I wonder if all the progeny have to be reregistered. I don't have many purebreds but am thinking of dna'ing everything to avoid a nightmare like that. At least his real Dad wasn't a carrier bull or EXT lol.
 
We started doing DNA test on all of the calves we register. We had a heifer that didn't dna check for the new owner we were as upset as them. The cow had calved late all we could determine was she got bred by one of the calves still on its mamma instead of the herd bull. We made things right with that transaction but it made us realize how bad it could have been if it had been a bull. So now we know if it has papers it is who we say it is.Got to hate it for your friend there is no easy fix to this kind of problem.
 
I don't know if I understand what you are saying? Are you saying they find errors in parentage of the sample submitted 10% of the time?
 
Been there...done that with horses.

I bought a stud colt & blood typing showed wrong dam. Old man who kept "meticulous records". Caused alot of problems. I didn't sell any from him for several yrs til it shook out.

Honest mistakes are made. Sometimes dis-honest mistakes are made with more frequency.
 
I know it happened a few times with bulls the A'I stud brought in but they caught it before the bulls werre marketed. Those calves born ten days past their A'I date give a guy pause for sure-they have these parentasge mix ups even in humans :wink:
 
gizmom said:
I don't know if I understand what you are saying? Are you saying they find errors in parentage of the sample submitted 10% of the time?

The way I understand it is that of all the samples sent in, around 10% were wrong.
 
Ok got ya, sometimes it takes me awhile lol. We had one heifer last year that I really don't have a clue who her daddy is. Sent in the DNA the cow wasn't AI'd so just sent herd bull and cow info. She came back the cow was right but they said it wasn't the herd bull. First thing I did was pulled another sample in case the first one was messed up since we had done a bunch of calves that same day. It still came back same issue, so then I submitted the other bulls that I was using, still no luck then sent them a list of every bull in the AI tank no go. My husband and I were talking and he said what about the 601 bull that broke his penis? He was in a different pasture, never noted him being out of it but wouldn't you know we didn't start doing the DNA until 07 so I didn't have a sample and he had been sent to town, now the calf is in the commercial herd but I bet that bull broke himself through the fence that is the only thing that I can figure. To me this is a perfect example of how errors can be made without the DNA test this heifer would have been registered to our herd bull and I would never had known there was a problem. I am sure that these type of things have happened over the years the breeders are not being dishonest they just didn't know.

Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com
 
Northern Rancher said:
I just heard a purebred Angus outfit up here just found out a herdbull they bought stateside isn't out of the bull on his papers. They've used him for quite a few years and sold lots of progeny. How the heck do you straighten out that mess-I wonder if all the progeny have to be reregistered. I don't have many purebreds but am thinking of dna'ing everything to avoid a nightmare like that. At least his real Dad wasn't a carrier bull or EXT lol.

I'm a bit confused but up here we have to have the sire DNA'd before a (any) calf can be registered. So - what is being said here is that the CAA takes the AAA word that the animal ''is what it is''? The States doesn't require parentage certification ? I realize mistakes happen (AI overlapping on cleanup). Whether the bull is used up here (ie: progeny being registered) - walking or in a straw ... I presumed ... parentage tests had/were to be done. I'm curious enough that I'll ask the CAA what protocol they follow.
 
Learn something new everyday ... :) I've received an answer from the CAA office already :tiphat:

Hi Connie.

If a bull from the U.S. is brought in by a semen company like Genex, or ABS, then the parentage has been checked, bulls used for A.I. require parentage verification to the fullest extent possible.

For AI bulls, Pg 42 of the Handbook, Section 1 (a) says:
"All bulls from which semen is collected for use in A.I. must have parentage verified by DNA typing to the fullest extent possible"

For an American registered walking bull, bought by a breeder, parentage verification hasn't been a requirement in the past. The Board recently changed the rule, after the October Board meeting, so we are requiring sire verification on every breeding bull we register calves to. Up until the recent Board meeting, the rule just stated that a bull needed DNA on file at CAA.

The DNA policy on page 53 of the handbook says:
"Sire policy – all sires used for breeding must have a DNA profile on record with CAA before their off-spring can be registered."

This wording will be changed the next time the Handbook is printed, but we are currently following the rule whereby we check for sire verification on all bulls used for breeding. This can be found on our web-site, under the Board of Directors page, summary from October board meeting.

Sire Verification
Two recent parentage errors that followed American sires used in Canada encouraged the Board to standardize our requirements. An Amendment was passed requiring that "all imported sires be sire verified before progeny can be registered in order to be consistent with Canadian standards."


We are bound to find a few errors relating to past entries, unfortunately.

Let me know if you have any questions, or if you have specific animals you want me to look up.

Sharmayne Byrgesen
Registrar
Canadian Angus Association
 

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