Working dogs

[Charlie]

I saw a post a ways down about the hanging tree dogs. I have always been interested in them too. The dog (Sadie)holding the steers in my picture posted in the gallery is a catahoula. She has always worked for me like a border collie or austrailian shepherd. She will down, come by, away to me, etc. However she does have the natural instinct to keep the bunch together also, but usually from behind. If a steer acts up and I tell her to hit she will and loves to do so :x , so I'm pretty careful. She is very intelligent or as some good trainers would call it hard headed, but it works for me. She does bark alot, which some people don't like, but then they come walk through all our calves and say how quiet they are and that nothing spooks them. That's cuz Sadie, my horse and I are in there every day and they get used to the noise. I go out to our lots to bring in a pen of steers to work and just stand there and she brings them in for me. I just open and shut the gates. She knows where they need to go. The only commands I need to give anymore are hit, that'll do and good girl. No revenge does have to go in there sometimes :lol: :lol:

I watched the Gary Ericcson tapes when she was a pup and they were very helpful. From what I hear, she is a pretty rare catahoula tho. I did have a pretty tough time getting her to listen at first.
She is now six and I got her as a rescue pup out of Texas. She had phneumonia along with 2 sisters and her mother . I think she may have a little lung scarring from that. I know it will take a long time to get a new pup started and up to par. I like the grit of the houla's , but maybe want to tone down the independence just a little. I also have another male houla that is great for a guard dog and helping load the trailer, but we call him our ADD dog. He is supposed to help Sadie, and does a great job until he finds a nice pile of crap to go roll in. He is getting a little better with age, but is more of a family pet and protector :twisted:

 

[TWOROPES]

We use alot of cur type dogs here, catahoulas, blackmouth curs, blue lacy. Your catahoula working the rear of an animal is rare, since thier instinct is to head. The barking or "baying" as we call it is natural and is a positive trait for most peaple using these dogs to locate bad cattle in the brush or swamp thickets. The best way to start a new dog IMO, is take a pup over a year of age and let her work with your old dog. These dogs are pack animals and work better with other curs. When we go after bad cattle we take three to eight dogs, you have to watch the harder dogs as they will take the ears off of calves if you leave em on too long.

 

[Charlie]

I guess what I was trying to say was that I'm not sure I want to start another catahoula. I love them, especially their grit, but in our feedlot I wonder if a cross would be better.
If I could get a pup that would follow Sadies lead and work like she does- mostly from the rear, I would love it, but I don't think a fullblood would. Thats why I was curious about the Hanging Tree. I know they are part catahoula. I worked Sadie on a long rope for quite a while and was usually on foot with her once we got out of the small goat pen. That's probably why she works the rear. It took a lot of time and patience with her. now I wouldn't trade her for the world.

 

[Anonymous]

Charlie- that is what I have to do with the border collies to get them to work from behind-- work them on a short rope first- then a long rope...Their natural herding tendancy is to gather and bring to you, but after working them on the rope for awhile they learn to chase away rather than bring.. Then I start using hand signals to send them certain directions...Just what works best for me working cattle...

I know some folks that use them in alleyways to gather...Saw one fella that buys a lot of cattle- when he's sorting calves he'll let a sort out into the alleyway and his dogs (border collies) will bring them one or two at a time to him...He just operates the cutback pen gate and sorts off those he doesn't want- and lets the rest pass.... Makes it a 1 man operation...

I know another fella thats got a couple of my pups that does a lot of riding in the family feedlot...When he's moving a pen he just rides up and opens the gate and tells the dogs to bring them out- then he rides down the alley to whatever gate he wants them to go in and lets the dogs bring them to him...

But I found that for me- where I'm using the dogs mostly in open country its easier to have them chase rather than gather.....

 

[Jinglebob]

Charlie- that is what I have to do with the border collies to get them to work from behind-- work them on a short rope first- then a long rope...Their natural herding tendancy is to gather and bring to you, but after working them on the rope for awhile they learn to chase away rather than bring.. Then I start using hand signals to send them certain directions...Just what works best for me working cattle...

I know some folks that use them in alleyways to gather...Saw one fella that buys a lot of cattle- when he's sorting calves he'll let a sort out into the alleyway and his dogs (border collies) will bring them one or two at a time to him...He just operates the cutback pen gate and sorts off those he doesn't want- and lets the rest pass.... Makes it a 1 man operation...

I know another fella thats got a couple of my pups that does a lot of riding in the family feedlot...When he's moving a pen he just rides up and opens the gate and tells the dogs to bring them out- then he rides down the alley to whatever gate he wants them to go in and lets the dogs bring them to him...

But I found that for me- where I'm using the dogs mostly in open country its easier to have them chase rather than gather.....

When I got my first Border Collie, the first thing I learned was that once you get your cattle broke to dogs, all you have to do is take the lead and let the dogs bring them up behind you. Which really works good, once you get used to it, as cattle like a leader and are more comfortable following than being pushed.

I need to get me another good pup and start over training I guess.

I want another square headed/foreheaded dog. I had a good one and probably will never have another as good.

When I was recieving yearlings, I would get the chute set up and put some in and start working them. Usually the dogs brought the rest of the pen and I very seldom had to go back and get any more cattle, until the pen was empty and I had to refill it. Sure was handy.

But I spent a lot of time training on them dogs, just like a colt. The more effort you put into them, usually the better they get.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep Jinglebob-- I know another fella that has some forest service mountain pasture- has to trail about 10 miles back and forth...In the fall when he brings them home he just goes up and once he and the dogs get the pasture gathered, he rides ahead and opens gates...Dogs do all the work of bringing them along...

 

[Jinglebob]

Are you close to Poplar, OT? Had a feller from this country go up there to get a AI breeding barn, or somesuch. He said when he takes it back, I should ride along.

He's kind of a wild man, so I ain't too sure it would be a good idea, but if it was a chance to get to meet you, it would be worth it. :wink:

 

[Charlie]

I have a friend with a well trained kelpie, and he had me totally convinced that it's impossible to get a catahoula to do what all I want them to do. Sadie does an awesome job, but I was getting pretty worried myself if he wasn't right. She isn't the best in real tight spots when I am gate sorting. A little to hyped for that, but I just tell her to get out and then down. If she still wants to help too much, " go to the yard" and off she goes and won't come back unless I call her. I have had border collies before and they were lots easier to work with, but didn't have the hit in em. Thats been quite a while back tho and maybe I didn't have the right bloodlines.

 

[Jinglebob]

We've got a guy around here who went to breeding border collies, trying to get them real "tuff'. Mostly he's just got them bred back to where they are really dingo's! :lol:

We all call them "dryland phirana's". :lol:

Seems to me like, if they are real tuff, they ain't real smart. There is a fine line between one who'll keep getting kicked and is tuff and one who will be smart enough not to let it happen again, but still tuff enough to stand up to a nasty ol' critter. It ain't real smart to keep gettin' whacked.




But some of us do it! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Are you close to Poplar, OT? Had a feller from this country go up there to get a AI breeding barn, or somesuch. He said when he takes it back, I should ride along.

He's kind of a wild man, so I ain't too sure it would be a good idea, but if it was a chance to get to meet you, it would be worth it. :wink:

JB- Poplar is about 80 miles east of me...I don't get there much anymore unless I have to see the Tribe on something...Its the BIA and Tribal headquarters for the res....

Wildman huh-- Poplar is kind of a wild place, too...At one time it had the highest murder rate per capita of any place in the country....

Haven't been there for years- I spent one year (74) living there when I was packing a badge-- but they used to have a Legion Club that was a good place to eat and a safe place to have peaceful cool one...Most of the rest of the town is a little hinky-- always had a big drug problem but now I understand they have a huge meth problem over there....

 

[Charlie]

I don't want them to get whacked, but I do want them tuff enough to protect me :???: ie; while bent over filling mineral feeders. Some of our steers like to get a little to close when they first come in until they have been schooled.

 

[Jinglebob]

Are you close to Poplar, OT? Had a feller from this country go up there to get a AI breeding barn, or somesuch. He said when he takes it back, I should ride along.

He's kind of a wild man, so I ain't too sure it would be a good idea, but if it was a chance to get to meet you, it would be worth it. :wink:

JB- Poplar is about 80 miles east of me...I don't get there much anymore unless I have to see the Tribe on something...Its the BIA and Tribal headquarters for the res....

Wildman huh-- Poplar is kind of a wild place, too...At one time it had the highest murder rate per capita of any place in the country....

Haven't been there for years- I spent one year (74) living there when I was packing a badge-- but they used to have a Legion Club that was a good place to eat and a safe place to have peaceful cool one...Most of the rest of the town is a little hinky-- always had a big drug problem but now I understand they have a huge meth problem over there....

I do believe I'll stay home then. Don't sound like my kind of place.
But if I ever get close, expect a visit.

 

[Anonymous]

Are you close to Poplar, OT? Had a feller from this country go up there to get a AI breeding barn, or somesuch. He said when he takes it back, I should ride along.

He's kind of a wild man, so I ain't too sure it would be a good idea, but if it was a chance to get to meet you, it would be worth it. :wink:

JB- Poplar is about 80 miles east of me...I don't get there much anymore unless I have to see the Tribe on something...Its the BIA and Tribal headquarters for the res....

Wildman huh-- Poplar is kind of a wild place, too...At one time it had the highest murder rate per capita of any place in the country....

Haven't been there for years- I spent one year (74) living there when I was packing a badge-- but they used to have a Legion Club that was a good place to eat and a safe place to have peaceful cool one...Most of the rest of the town is a little hinky-- always had a big drug problem but now I understand they have a huge meth problem over there....

I do believe I'll stay home then. Don't sound like my kind of place.
But if I ever get close, expect a visit.

Sounds good- but I really think Poplar is definitely someplace you won't mind missing :wink: :lol: I know some good folks over there- but there is also a lot of riff raff.....

 

[Soapweed]

JB- Poplar is about 80 miles east of me...I don't get there much anymore unless I have to see the Tribe on something...Its the BIA and Tribal headquarters for the res....

Wildman huh-- Poplar is kind of a wild place, too...At one time it had the highest murder rate per capita of any place in the country....

Haven't been there for years- I spent one year (74) living there when I was packing a badge-- but they used to have a Legion Club that was a good place to eat and a safe place to have peaceful cool one...Most of the rest of the town is a little hinky-- always had a big drug problem but now I understand they have a huge meth problem over there....

I do believe I'll stay home then. Don't sound like my kind of place.
But if I ever get close, expect a visit.

Sounds good- but I really think Poplar is definitely someplace you won't mind missing :wink: :lol: I know some good folks over there- but there is also a lot of riff raff.....

But it must be a pop'lar place for some to call home. :?

 

[CattleRMe]

I have been to two of Gary Ericson's work dog clinics. The man knows dogs and how to get them to work. His tapes are good information but in person is much better. They are a great resource for a handler and his dog.

The Hanging Tree dogs I was around his and a friend had one......are tough yes but seemed rather hard headed to me. Wouldn't back down from a cow but at times also seemed hard to call off. Plus they come with a very high price tag.

Myself I prefer a border collie. However I've been around a real nice Austrailian Shepard. The ones I was around tended to be very tough and prefer to work the back.

Half of making a really good dog is a handler that knows what he is doing. Dog broke cows really help the situation too.

 

[Charlie]

I have also been around some good Austrailian Shepards. Had some Good border collies too. I hadn't watched Gary's tapes until I got my catahoula. I learned a lot from him. Will probably watch them again when I get another pup. I hope people don't misunderstand me. I don't want a mean dog chewing up our livestock every time I go out there. I was trying to make a joke in the previous post about the mineral feeder and getting pushed in while bending over filling it by a nosey steer. Some are pretty curious. We also buy bred weigh up cows in late fall and early spring to calve out since we run grass that is in a restoration project. Burned in april, pairs in early may and pulled off and sold mid to end of June depending on rain. Tend to get a few cows with some attitude. With our business, one of us is usually gone so I am calving or checking cattle alone. That's why I also want the grit in the dog. We have those cull cows in lots for quite a while too. I check everything and pull anything that needs to be pulled and treated cow or calf.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Jinglebob did you ever have one of Paul Schultes's border collies that sounds like his breeding philosophy.

 

[Jinglebob]

Jinglebob did you ever have one of Paul Schultes's border collies that sounds like his breeding philosophy.

Nope, that is who I'm talking about. I want some bite in them, but I don't want to have to use a shock collar to train one. :wink:

I ain't tryin' to start no fights, but I don't want any more Heelers. Had enough of them and thats what he's got them bred to act like.

 

[Ranchy]

Hubby had a Hangin Tree Border Collie for a while, back in the mid-90s. Al and I got it for him, for Christmas one year. He was smart as a whip, but had a stubborn streak in him a country mile wide, too.

I was really sad when he started attacking the critters every time he got turned loose........Hubby's dad even took him and tried to get that worked out of him, but couldn't either. Guess ole Freckles has gone on to his reward.........

Then, we had a son of Freckles, and Hubby had to get rid of him while we were at Encino, NM. He was bad to chase the sheep there, and you couldn't get him to stop, either........so Spanky got what-for, too.

We have a good Cur, now........Ole Snip can hunt up cows and push em.........just about whatever you need to have done. Not sure what my little Rebel pup will end up being best at, since he's Cur and Blue Lacey......maybe he'll be a good, all-around dog, too! Got my fingers crossed, cause I've gotten kinda attached to that little rascal....... :lol:

 

[greg]

Jinglebob did you ever have one of Paul Schultes's border collies that sounds like his breeding philosophy.

Nope, that is who I'm talking about. I want some bite in them, but I don't want to have to use a shock collar to train one. :wink:

I ain't tryin' to start no fights, but I don't want any more Heelers. Had enough of them and thats what he's got them bred to act like.

Have to agree,once yu have a herding dog--and YU learn to use,can't be beat