You just do not get it.RH

[QUESTION]

Now this is more like it. You state your feelings on the problem and I state mine. I see your point to a certain degree. Yes, USA needs to test more, let Creekstone test for market. The USDA can still control the tests, but let them test. As for sending younger cattle to USA I don't care for. IF we find one down here, then it looks bad on us and we lose. Honestly if the shoe was on the other foot you would be bad mouthing our beef and I would be cussing you. We need to start looking out for ourselves the same as you do. The government on both sides does honestly need the producer, they can just import it in from other countries. Labeling Cool in the long run will help USA and Canada. I would pick Canada product over any other country besides my own anyday. As far as wanting you to find more bse I don't, so don't know why you want us to find more. If we tested like R-calf wanted, we would be finding more.

If we have more positives i want them found and eliminated. Not hidden :roll: As for the US looking bad, you are in denial finding positives means your system is working maybe even finding a canadian positive shipped down there. But not finding any more positives just show that the US is intentionally endangering the consumer. And Canada is the number one consumer of US Ag goods. So your customer is telling you what they want . Please just give us what we want.
The another reason for me wanting the US to find BSE positives is that your feedban has loopholes and some of that infected feed comes back to canada and infects our cattle when we are trying to eliminate the disease. So because your system is screwed up, i have to suffer. Maybe fix your problem and grow a concience. Or is that so hard to understand.
If one looks at the CFIA food recalls and health warnings most are US products yes it is a funtion of Canada being the largest market for US Ag. exports but to say i would trust COOL USA most from export market certainly isn't true.
Do you understand the reasoning now?

 

[ranch hand]

You forgot your pm to me, that I was posting back to. :lol: :roll: :roll:

Yes we would be finding more BSE cases if we tested more, and I am afraid how many of them come from you. :???:

Civil discussions i have tried to have. the problem on here like many other sites, rather than admitting one doesn't know everything or could be wrong they make personal attack or start childish name calling. Like attacking the my manliness, the fact is that the US does not have a leg to stand when it comes to BSE as the disease is in the US so how can anyone justify restricting trade. Simple it can't be done. You can see base differences between Canada in the US. We want to label product of Canada or not whereas the US want to label from other counties. The base difference is canada is proud of it's produce and wants the domestic consumer to know that Product of canada means Quality. Where as M-COOL singles out foreign countries so to make it easy to do negative advertizing and attaching political reasons for discriminating against a COOL product you know the whole foreign is bad idea. I'll will put it more simply canada promotes openess and transparentcy while the US system promotes fear and distrust .
As for your theroy of small man issues sorry but i am a 6 fot 6 inch former college athelete, Yep and educated cowboy. The problem i run into usally is that once people see me they seem to be a little quite.
I earn my living from cattle, what steams me is many on here who talk the talk but only own a few cows from time to time like SandH who makes his living as a banker and doesn't own a herd of cows or OT who runs a remuda of ponies and is a retired lawman of some type, brand inspector and what ever else he claims. These hard core r-calfers don't and never will make their living from cattle yet think they have the right to tell somewone who does how things are to be done. I guess if they didn't have computers with internet connecvtions they would have hung themselves years ago.

 

[QUESTION]

This is what is so frustrating. The fact that you are in such a deep state of denial RH! Playing the blame game does nothing but pit cattlemen against each other. The fact is you have to get up to the canadian standards at a minimum. You really don't see what canadians want. I can only speak for myself I WANT TO ELIMINATE BSE AND ALL VARIANTS. If you guys took this seriously it could be done. So what is stopping you guys are you too greedy, too lazy or apathedic? Why would you not want to get rid of something that is so costly. Maybe look long term at what is good for everyone.

 

[Sandhusker]

Q, "Maybe fix your problem and grow a concience. "

How in the hell can you tell us that when you know that you're going to find more positives, you know that there is a huge crack where positive animals can be shipped down here, and you know that our feed ban has holes in it - then you blast R-CALF for wanting to keep your cattle out of our country unless we can be assured they are not carrying BSE? That, Q, is the very definition of hypocricy. I suggest you practice what you preach.

 

[ranch hand]

The fact is you have to get up to the canadian standards at a minimum. You really don't see what canadians want. I can only speak for myself I WANT TO ELIMINATE BSE AND ALL VARIANTS. If you guys took this seriously it could be done. So what is stopping you guys are you too greedy, too lazy or apathedic? Why would you not want to get rid of something that is so costly. Maybe look long term at what is good for everyone.

What canadian standards would that be? Finding more BSE cows after the feed ban than before. What do you care what we do, testing or not. You said your self that you were looking out for yourself as cattle is your business. We the producers don't control the USDA and how much or little testing they do. NCBA controls that. bench at them. R-calf wants tighter feed bans, more testing and to keep out any BSE cows that could go into the feed ban with holes, THAT INCLUDES ANY BSE COWS THAT COULD COME ACROSS THE BORDER that would prolong the BSE and not iradicate it. Now what is so hard understanding that, but yet you still bench and not to the NCBA people who want the other.

 

[QUESTION]

:roll: I guess apathy is the answer. SandH keep on playing the blame game. Afterall it has fixed all your problems so far hasn't it. Hypocrite - fix the US feed ban loopholes and or prove canadian positives are going into the US then you can slam the border shut for however long you want. It has been proposed years ago. Still no action. Complain and don't offer any solution it is what you are best at.
Rh Canadian standards = SRM removal policy, complete feedban with no loopholes, disallow the movement of down cattle period do i need to keep going :roll: Yes i look out for my cattle business but i also submit samples from high risk cattle as i expect all to do. I want BSE to be gone period end of sentance. So i am trying to do everything i can to accomplish that goal, but i can't do it alone it is the problem for every country that has had an indeginous case to work together to get rid of this disease. why isn't it your problem? ignoring it doesn't work. Why do i care what the US does like it or not this business is global and if someone isn't pulling their weight it effects the rest of the producers in the world. Sorry the cop out isn't going to fly You guys elcect the senators, congressmen and presidents so you do control the USDA you just have to elect the right guys. But hey if you want to do nothing and complain keep it up at least i Am trying to do my part.

 

[ranch hand]

But hey if you want to do nothing and complain keep it up at least i Am trying to do my part.

Name one frickin thing you have done to solve the world problems that I haven't done?????????????????????????????????????????????

You sound like a 2nd grader, spell like a 2nd grader and act like one.

 

[Sandhusker]

"I want BSE to be gone period end of sentance."

If so, the first thing you need to do is learn about the disease. When you make comments like, "prove canadian positives are going into the US" you're showing either ignorance or denial.

 

[QUESTION]

Rh funny how different you are in a pm and on a post almost complete polar opposite. But Lets see what an i doing to solve the BSE problems. Signed and fulfilling a contract to not use any animal based feed supplements. So the is no way that the disease can perpetuate in my herd, Secondly providing individual animal ID on every animal i produce to the appropriate agency(CCIA) and keeping feed and health records so in case someone else feeds infected feed to one of the animals originating from my herd so it can be traced back to the proper point of infection. Have you ever voulentarily submitted a sample for BSE testing from an animal that hasn't left your farm, last year i did. By the way the sample came back negative. Have you done all of this ?
Hilarious you can only criticize the grammer and spelling of my post the concepts you have no defence for when i explain my thought process. But by all means keep up the name calling that will help fix every thing :roll:
SandH this is so simple find a positive from canada being killed at a US processing plant they are the cattle with the CAN brands and paperwork following them back to the border and the border can be closed for how ever long you want and the restictions can be set how ever you want. IF there are so positives going to the US it shouldn't take more than a couple of tries to find one.
You want to play the part of expert OK tell me - when an animal is exposed to BSE exactly how many days will it take for that animal to test positive from exposure date. Prove your theroy that canadian cattle are coming into the US that will test positive. Are you ignorant or in denial? :cry2: :lol2: :devil2: Do you not see the flawing your thought process even if animals eat infected feed they do not test positive the next day or even next year or next 4 years. Explain your way out of this! :roll:
By all means change the subject , ignore the obvious, call names you know, do what you have been doing - it seems to be doing great things for you so far. :lol2:

 

[Anonymous]

You want to play the part of expert OK tell me - when an animal is exposed to BSE exactly how many days will it take for that animal to test positive from exposure date. Prove your theroy that canadian cattle are coming into the US that will test positive. Are you ignorant or in denial? :cry2: :lol2: :devil2: Do you not see the flawing your thought process even if animals eat infected feed they do not test positive the next day or even next year or next 4 years. Explain your way out of this! :roll:
:

That is one of the unknowns of BSE- it has been shown the disease can manifest itself in cattle as young as 21 months old- and in cattle as old as 15 years.....The accepted theory is that the amount of infectivity and amount of infective material consumed play a role in the age it shows up later...With the higher levels of BSE exposure causing the disease to show up in cattle of younger age...

Since the disease has a long incubation rate (average 8 years) it can incubate in an animal for periods of years before manifesting itself (at which time it will show up on the current tests being done) and then causing symptoms --Many cattle exposed to infected feed in Canada could easily be entering the US today.....

This current cow- is believed to have incubated the disease for 4- 5 years- and if it had been shipped for slaughter months before it died- could have been manifesting the disease when it entered the US - and when it was slaughtered in the US...
And if BSE Testers Canadian research is correct- once these animals ingest the prion- they are carrying it forever- since they claim their test can pick it up in urine of unsick cattle...

 

[ranch hand]

Rh funny how different you are in a pm and on a post almost complete polar opposite. Lets just say if you can't beat them join them. But Lets see what an i doing to solve the BSE problems. Signed and fulfilling a contract to not use any animal based feed supplements. So do I. So the is no way that the disease can perpetuate in my herd, Secondly providing individual animal ID on every animal i produce to the appropriate agency(CCIA) and keeping feed and health records so in case someone else feeds infected feed to one of the animals originating from my herd so it can be traced back to the proper point of infection. So[/b] Do I. Have you ever voulentarily submitted a sample for BSE testing from an animal that hasn't left your farm, last year i did. No, I am not going to kill a healthy live animal just to get it tested By the way the sample came back negative. Have you done all of this ? Have you stopped other countries from sending in BSE animals?Hilarious you can only criticize the grammer and spelling of my post the concepts you have no defence for when i explain my thought process. What thought process? But by all means keep up the name calling that will help fix every thing HA, from the king of naming calling, talk about calling the kettle black.

SandH this is so simple find a positive from canada being killed at a US processing plant they are the cattle with the CAN brands and paperwork following them back to the border and the border can be closed for how ever long you want and the restictions can be set how ever you want. IF there are so positives going to the US it shouldn't take more than a couple of tries to find one. How in the hell as a producer are we able to test a Canadian cow? Talk about thought process. What college did you say you went to?You want to play the part of expert OK tell me - when an animal is exposed to BSE exactly how many days will it take for that animal to test positive from exposure date. Prove your theroy that canadian cattle are coming into the US that will test positive. Are you ignorant or in denial? Can you prove when they get it, and that none are being imported in to the USA? Do you not see the flawing your thought process even if animals eat infected feed they do not test positive the next day or even next year or next 4 years. Explain your way out of this! What about the last cow that you had, what if she was imported a week before she went down? Can you explain your way out of that one?By all means change the subject , ignore the obvious, call names you know, do what you have been doing - it seems to be doing great things for you so far. This is so stupid reasoning with you that I am back out to fight the breakdowns on the swather. Have fun, as I have better things to do than explain to a 2 year old.

 

[QUESTION]

I'm in for luch break to let the tractor cool a bit the conditioner just having a tough time getting thru that jungle of alfalfa.
OT we both understand that once infected feed is consumed nobody knows how long or when an animal will show clinical signs or if they will test negative for some time prior to clinical signs. That is the problem with saying canada is exporting positives to the US. Could there be some going south, yeah . BUT you have never found any, much as WMDs have never been found in Iraq. Sorry but accusations are not enough. She was down thus could not leave the herd where she went down and a sample HAD to be collected as she became entirely SRM as she exhibited clinical signs of BSE. Can you answer this would have she tested positive a year ago when she was apparently healthy?
So Rh you act like an bada$$ on the thread but a decent person on PM's. So you are part of a manditory national animal ID program like my self. :sure: Could you please give me the name of the agency you report to for NAIS. Man you just do not get it, just for you- the cow that i got tested on farm, the local vet sampled as part of the surveilence program because she was becoming uncoordinated as well as getting extremely thin eventually from blood samples and post mortum it was determined that she had ingested poisonous plant material while out on summer pasture that basically destroyed her liverfunction. That is why she was not resondiong to treatments. Oh well more name calling i guess that is what you do when you have lost a debate!
Ok you want to take up the gauntlet from sandH buy a bunch of canadian culls ship the stateside to be slaughtered find a small plant that will collect sample then find a lab ( you can choose any one in the world) and get the sample tested for BSE. Afterall once you buy the cull cow you own her . Is this so hard to figure out how to do that ? Yeah that process lacks logic. Rh since you are such an expert on BSE tell me when does an animal exposed to BSE test positive. I just went thru this with others but that is part of this infection .Nobody knows when an exposed animal apparently healthy will test positive.
Acutally i went to a University as well as college so i have more that one piece of paper. But my degrees are not in english composition. As for my thought processes i was told by other mensa members that most who think in a linear fashion have great troubles following people like myself.
Again with the hypothedical questions. :roll:

 

[Sandhusker]

Q, let me explain something to you. From the time a BSE positive animal first eats the agent that gives them the disease (generally as a calf with your dairy cattle), they have the disease until they're dead. If they are not tested or even if they are with a test that can not pick it up, the fact remains, they have it.

Q, "Could there be some going south, yeah "

At last, a glimmer of hope that you may actually have some reasoning ability!

Q, "BUT you have never found any"

And that glimmer disappears as we both know that those animals are not tested.

Q, "Acutally i went to a University as well as college"

The university that you went to was not a college? OOOOKAAAAAAYYYY

Q, "Ok you want to take up the gauntlet from sandH buy a bunch of canadian culls ship the stateside to be slaughtered find a small plant that will collect sample then find a lab ( you can choose any one in the world) and get the sample tested for BSE. Afterall once you buy the cull cow you own her . Is this so hard to figure out how to do that ? Yeah that process lacks logic."

Other than you, who is questioning Canada sending BSE positives here? You want to talk logic?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Sandhusker in Canada colleges are usually 2 year courses leading o a Diploma. Our universities are 4 year leading to a Degree and onwards to mMsters and Doctorate.

 

[Sandhusker]

Sandhusker in Canada colleges are usually 2 year courses leading o a Diploma. Our universities are 4 year leading to a Degree and onwards to mMsters and Doctorate.

In the US, universities are colleges.

 

[mrj]

Being often accused of not studying issues or doing research by Sandhusker, and innacurately at that, I must point out that the bold statement that "in the US, universities are colleges" in not at all accurate.

A very quick google search shows:

Historically, the US institutions of higher education began as colleges, with students required to study in Europe to get masters and doctorate degrees.

Traditionally, the term 'college' applied to a partof a University system, with 'colleges' being departments offering different degrees with Deans as heads of the various colleges in a University with a President as the head overall.

The terms "college" and "university" MAY be synonomous, or "university" may reflect the higher status of offering advanced degrees.

A college can indicate an institution which doesn't offer more than a batchelors degree.

Some other nations use the term "college" to indicate jr. high, highschool, or jr. college offering associate degrees.

mrj

 

[Sandhusker]

Being often accused of not studying issues or doing research by Sandhusker, and innacurately at that, I must point out that the bold statement that "in the US, universities are colleges" in not at all accurate.

A very quick google search shows:

Historically, the US institutions of higher education began as colleges, with students required to study in Europe to get masters and doctorate degrees.

Traditionally, the term 'college' applied to a partof a University system, with 'colleges' being departments offering different degrees with Deans as heads of the various colleges in a University with a President as the head overall.

The terms "college" and "university" MAY be synonomous, or "university" may reflect the higher status of offering advanced degrees.

A college can indicate an institution which doesn't offer more than a batchelors degree.

Some other nations use the term "college" to indicate jr. high, highschool, or jr. college offering associate degrees.

mrj

Well I'm dang glad we got that settled. Now that you're familiar with Google, so a search and find out how much beef we exported to Japan and Korea in 2002 compared to the total since then and tell me again how our policy is working.

 

[mrj]

That would be like comparing apples to marbles.

A total different trading world for beef since BSE became a problem.

I stand by MY premise that standing by what the animal health experts of the world regards as the best available science in this trade issue will, over the long term, serve the US cattleman better than catering to the emotion and politics injected into it by those with agendas other than simple beef trade.

mrj

 

[gcreekrch]

Don't you think that if the North American beef industry gave the consumer what they are asking for that business would return to "simple beef trade" ?

 

[Sandhusker]

That would be like comparing apples to marbles.

A total different trading world for beef since BSE became a problem.

I stand by MY premise that standing by what the animal health experts of the world regards as the best available science in this trade issue will, over the long term, serve the US cattleman better than catering to the emotion and politics injected into it by those with agendas other than simple beef trade.

mrj

The present policy has cost us money for the 5+ years that we've been following it and will continue to cost us money. It's called a failed policy, MRJ. A proven loser. How does it serve US cattlemen better to continue to lose sales and money? Just what the hell is it going to take? How much money has to be left on the table? How much?