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Texas A&M Study Cow Size

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cowhunter said:
Finely, some body that agrees with me 100 percent!
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I don't know that DOC would agree with you 100%. He might agree with you that bigger isn't necessarily better, but that doesn't mean that smaller is always better, either.

A 1,000 pound cow is one thing - but a 700 pound cow is an entirely different matter. Your example of running Angus bulls on "scrub cattle" and being able to sell calves for just as much as other calves of that size might work for you, but it sure cheats the next guy that owns them.

It's no different than the Longhorn-Charolais cross that we see a lot of in Texas. Guys buy $300 Longhorn cows, run a Char bull on them and as long as they sell the calves weighing around 300-350, you can't really tell 'em apart and they bring the same money. So I get them in on an order with some other Char cross calves and they've cost me just as much money. But when I get them straightened out and turn them out, they start showing up within a few months.

And by the time I have yearlings ready to sell, many of them no longer fit the group. I have to sort those off and take a pretty good loss on them. Because if anything expresses even the slightest bit of Longhorn look - either in muscling or color - I'm not going to take a chance on him going to the feedlot with a good set of yearlings with MY brand on them.

Yeah, I could probably get some of those cattle by without anybody noticing. But since I see them every day, I KNOW what they are and how they WON'T perform in the feedyard. So, since I know what they are by that time, they get cut off - and I lose money on them.

Just looking out for yourself and not thinking about the next guy that owns your calves is one of the things wrong with this industry right now...
 
Well, not tryin to gouge anybody but gougin go's both ways. When calfs bring a dollar a lb here and a buck thirty yalls way. It don't take much peckin on a calulator, figerin freight and what's left on the table to see where the gougein comein from. They all get eat and I'm sure yall still fair ok. Like we do at a buck or so for the last many years. But its plenty fair. And like u say. Then longhorns slip out of them heifers like them angus slip out of our scrubs. I'm in the ropen stock cattle business. But they eat good to. You don't leave a pile of fat on the plate when your done. Yall start doin dna or quit bitchin.
 
Texan said:
cowhunter said:
Finely, some body that agrees with me 100 percent!
Click to expand...
I don't know that DOC would agree with you 100%. He might agree with you that bigger isn't necessarily better, but that doesn't mean that smaller is always better, either.

A 1,000 pound cow is one thing - but a 700 pound cow is an entirely different matter. Your example of running Angus bulls on "scrub cattle" and being able to sell calves for just as much as other calves of that size might work for you, but it sure cheats the next guy that owns them.

It's no different than the Longhorn-Charolais cross that we see a lot of in Texas. Guys buy $300 Longhorn cows, run a Char bull on them and as long as they sell the calves weighing around 300-350, you can't really tell 'em apart and they bring the same money. So I get them in on an order with some other Char cross calves and they've cost me just as much money. But when I get them straightened out and turn them out, they start showing up within a few months.

And by the time I have yearlings ready to sell, many of them no longer fit the group. I have to sort those off and take a pretty good loss on them. Because if anything expresses even the slightest bit of Longhorn look - either in muscling or color - I'm not going to take a chance on him going to the feedlot with a good set of yearlings with MY brand on them.

Yeah, I could probably get some of those cattle by without anybody noticing. But since I see them every day, I KNOW what they are and how they WON'T perform in the feedyard. So, since I know what they are by that time, they get cut off - and I lose money on them.

Just looking out for yourself and not thinking about the next guy that owns your calves is one of the things wrong with this industry right now...
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"Texan"

You are absolutely right! Your entire post is "Right On!" "Extremes" almost invariably result in extreme results! A 700# cow is as PROFIT-LESS as a 2000#+ cow. It just manifests itself in different ways. Whether a producer is a seedstock breeder, or a Terminal producer for the feedlot, the business is a 'balancing act' which depends on many factors, common sense being primary among them. The continuing integrity and good will one develops as a beef producer follow him throughout his life, and that is worth more than dollars at the moment!

The entire 'agenda' of 'cow size' is usually obscured by ambiguousness because the subject allows for more than one interpretation of the term "size". In 'doing the math', Lee Leachman states that high EPD's of yearling and milk measure output - not profit. PROFIT is output minus cost. Animals with higher EPD's for yearling and milk don't convert more efficiently, they just eat more per day. UP go the costs (EXPENSES!) That is an example of "Extremes".

In "figuring" a successful beef operation, keeping operational factors in balance is Job ONE! "TOO BIG" is too big. "too small" is too small. There are a lot more factors to consider when talking about PROFIT than just "Pushing The Scales Down!"

SMALLER COWS MAKE $75.00+/- MORE PER COW PER YEAR!

Do the Math! Figure in your Forage costs, your Feed costs, your costs to 'put up hay', your missed 'breeding cycles, - - EVERY EXPENSE of doing your business. But don't expect to make any profit with 700# cows!

DOC HARRIS
 
I haven't played devil's advocate in a while, so here goes:

700 lb. cow crossed with 2200 lb Hereford bull = 550 lb. heifer calf.

Claire_Sept_2008.jpg

700 lb. X 2.5% body weight = 17.5 lbs of hay/day into the cow
17.5 lbs of hay X 6 cents/lb X 75 days = $78.75 winter feed
$78.75 + 290 days grazing @ 80 cents/day = $310.75

550 lb. hfr calf X 90 cents = $495 - $310.75 = $184.25
That margin gets a whole lot fatter if we grass finish that heifer and market her as beef.

Now if I can replicate that 500 times over, I might just be onto something. :wink:
 
Well, I sold but hope I've sold my last scrub calf at the market. But if I buy a few more cows that are bred to angus bulls. The calfs will sure go there. There's no sign when u back up your trailer that says. No calfs out of scrub cattle. Sence I've been fightin cancer for 4 years, I've hade a lot of time thinkin about what we eat. What we inject into them, what we feed them and how there bred. My cattle have been bred, wild for years. There surviveallist. What lives, breeds and reporduces. Almost like a wild animal. That way, better for u to eat. And they do eat well. That's my longterm goil. And hopefully my youngins. There into the healther way of livein. Watchin there daddy fightin cancer has sure changed the way we live. Were tryin to make a nitch market. From natural raised,natural feed and out of natural cattle. Sellin everything from ropen cattle, to steak, to saltcured, stiff, colored hides to sculls. Our cattle, our land our money, our way. If it don't work. Oh well. But the only way I have lost money on a 700 lb cow is if she died. So go refiger doc. And I've don't like bein told I'm gougein from some texas precondishioner that's takin my 15 cents.yall don't hear me bitchin about it till u started. You'll have rurnt my story tellin for the evenin.
 
PureCountry said:
I haven't played devil's advocate in a while, so here goes:

700 lb. cow crossed with 2200 lb Hereford bull = 550 lb. heifer calf.

Claire_Sept_2008.jpg

700 lb. X 2.5% body weight = 17.5 lbs of hay/day into the cow
17.5 lbs of hay X 6 cents/lb X 75 days = $78.75 winter feed
$78.75 + 290 days grazing @ 80 cents/day = $310.75

550 lb. hfr calf X 90 cents = $495 - $310.75 = $184.25
That margin gets a whole lot fatter if we grass finish that heifer and market her as beef.

Now if I can replicate that 500 times over, I might just be onto something. :wink:
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Where there's a will there's a way PC. :wink:

There was a fella out Nazko way that had about 150 Highland cows, they were wild until he started crossing them with Simmental.

Then they were CRAZY. :shock:
He used to take the 12 gauge along when checking cows at calving for personal protection.
A country cow buyer that bought his cattle for years went there once to get a 5 ton load of dry cows. The first one up the chute took out the bulkhead of the rack and the 11 following her helped remodel the cab of the truck and kept going. :lol:
 
Pure country, that old high horned gal would fit in with my bunch. I don't have one that color. How's she bred. She's a good mama from the looks of the calf. Did u have to stay up with her or put her in a stall when she calfed? Or was u watchin the duke on a old western like I was. Is her feet sorry? Does she graze good and brouse like I deer? I bet she knows what them horns are for? Walk like the duke!
 
I bought her for 6 cents/lb. at an auction, nobody else wanted her, so she cost me $42. She's supposedly straight Highland, but the guy also had some yak X beef crosses there, and the way her horns sweep up, I'm not sure she doesn't have a 1/4 yak in her. She's also got guard hairs on her tail all the way to her tailhead. Either way, I don't care because she's taught alot of our cows what real browsing and grazing is. Even the other Highlands I think learnt a thing or 2 from her. She's an amazing little creature. That Hereford cross heifer came out running at about 55lbs, and never looked back. Lots of milk in that little udder, and by fall that calf was on her knees to get it.

She does have long toes on her back feet, so we'll see how her daughters feet hold up over the years. I wouldn't mind having a crackin' good black Highland bull to breed her to, and see if we could get a good bull calf, then use him on crossbred heifers. It'd be a fun experiment. :wink:
 
gcreekrch said:
Where there's a will there's a way PC. :wink:

There was a fella out Nazko way that had about 150 Highland cows, they were wild until he started crossing them with Simmental.

Then they were CRAZY. :shock:
He used to take the 12 gauge along when checking cows at calving for personal protection.
A country cow buyer that bought his cattle for years went there once to get a 5 ton load of dry cows. The first one up the chute took out the bulkhead of the rack and the 11 following her helped remodel the cab of the truck and kept going. :lol:
Click to expand...

I've been lucky with my Highlands Dave, they're all real quiet. I'd like to find a few more that are a little better put together than these girls. They were just dirt cheap at an auction where everyone was there to see the spectacle, and there was only 2 of us buying! :lol: If I had about 20 or so, I'd put a Tarentaise bull on them, then breed all those F1's back Galloway. I think it would be fun to play around with that, it'd almost be like developing a Polled Highland. Novel notion, we could take over the beef business don't ya think?

Today the Angus, tomorrow the World!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Purecountry, I can't help wonder about the guy that sold the highland cow. I hope he didn't have to haul her very far to get to the sale barn, or he may have spent more on his fuel than what he got paid. I wonder how many more he is looking forward to raising and selling?
 
gcreekrch - some of your carnivore varmints must have scared those highlands as I don't know of a quieter breed of cattle when run under extensive conditions than the Highland.

PC, I wondered about that cow the last time you posted her picture There certainly looks to be something else in there but Highland but I think there is too much horn for her to have much yak in her. We have a yak farmer quite near me and I've seen quite a few of his crossbreds. She is also an unusual color of brown for a "black" highland - usually they are either properly black or golden colored.
700lbs is a small cow - we once had a simmy x galloway get bred as a calf and calved at about 15 months. Apart from the first calf being a dink she turned in a good, regular size calf until she was 14. She probably was about 900lbs mature.
 
Is a yak them wild hairy cattle the live in the snow and eat moss off of rocks? No, that's a musk ox? What's a yak? I aint knowed they would cross with cattle. Looks like a tipical lookin cracker with a different color.
 
Yaks are the ones from the Himalayas cowhunter. The sherpas use them for beasts of burden as well as milking them. They have real horse like tails which looks odd on them.
My neighbors have a website with a lot of their pictures on it - they have a number of simmental x yaks as well as straight yaks.
check them out at http://shanepatti.tripod.com/id30.htm
 
Grassfarmer said:
gcreekrch - some of your carnivore varmints must have scared those highlands as I don't know of a quieter breed of cattle when run under extensive conditions than the Highland.

PC, I wondered about that cow the last time you posted her picture There certainly looks to be something else in there but Highland but I think there is too much horn for her to have much yak in her. We have a yak farmer quite near me and I've seen quite a few of his crossbreds. She is also an unusual color of brown for a "black" highland - usually they are either properly black or golden colored.
700lbs is a small cow - we once had a simmy x galloway get bred as a calf and calved at about 15 months. Apart from the first calf being a dink she turned in a good, regular size calf until she was 14. She probably was about 900lbs mature.
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Well the highlander's I've been around would give ext cattle a run for their money.
 
PureCountry said:
gcreekrch said:
Where there's a will there's a way PC. :wink:

There was a fella out Nazko way that had about 150 Highland cows, they were wild until he started crossing them with Simmental.

Then they were CRAZY. :shock:
He used to take the 12 gauge along when checking cows at calving for personal protection.
A country cow buyer that bought his cattle for years went there once to get a 5 ton load of dry cows. The first one up the chute took out the bulkhead of the rack and the 11 following her helped remodel the cab of the truck and kept going. :lol:
Click to expand...

I've been lucky with my Highlands Dave, they're all real quiet. I'd like to find a few more that are a little better put together than these girls. They were just dirt cheap at an auction where everyone was there to see the spectacle, and there was only 2 of us buying! :lol: If I had about 20 or so, I'd put a Tarentaise bull on them, then breed all those F1's back Galloway. I think it would be fun to play around with that, it'd almost be like developing a Polled Highland. Novel notion, we could take over the beef business don't ya think?

Today the Angus, tomorrow the World!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

We had 30 1/2 highlander 1/2 beef cow of various breeds the best cross I seen on them was tarentaise long haired tarentaise looking half bloods bred red angus raised some poping calves I think I'd stay with red hided cattle on them myself.
 
cowhunter said:
Pure country, that old high horned gal would fit in with my bunch. I don't have one that color. How's she bred. She's a good mama from the looks of the calf. Did u have to stay up with her or put her in a stall when she calfed? Or was u watchin the duke on a old western like I was. Is her feet sorry? Does she graze good and brouse like I deer? I bet she knows what them horns are for? Walk like the duke!
Click to expand...

cowhunter-

Wall, Ah done figurd lik'n u sed, and if'n u kin make a go of it the way yer doin' it - good fer u.

I feel fer u in fiten' cancer. Ah bin doin the same thing for 13 yrs, and it ain't no fun. but God kin hep u with that, and the cow bisnes too, if'n u jes ask HIM!

As the man sed, ther r exseptuns to ever rul. Sounds like yer one of 'em!

DOC HARRIS
 
Lord knows doc, I might be takein this wrong. Its 4 in the mornin and I feal like a coon in a box trap. And I'm shakein like a dog tryin to pass a peach seed after readin your last post. Sorry about digin at u for u sayin u can't make a profit on a 700 lb cow. Have done it and seen it done a lot. And I'll leave it at that. And I can handle you atempt at mowlkin my spellin and my way of talkin. That's no problem. But your jab at me fightin cancer and your jab at god. Well if u lived 50 miles from me, I'd be camped in your yard and when you drug out goin to do what ever u do, one of us wood soon be totein a ass wippin and I'd be tryin real hard to make sure hit wernt me. Now like I said, I might be readin it wrong. I took 2 zanax, a 15, oxycodon and a swig of hydrocodon to try and counter act this steroid. That was 4 hours ago and it worked. I don't like takein dope and have not took much untill now. I sure hope u never get struck down with this cancer. It not only ravages u, but your wife and youngins and the rest of your family. And if I aint had god, I'd hate to know how it would be fightin cancer. Pm me ur adress, I'd love to send u a little bible for cowboys that I give out. Got lots of pics and testamonials about cowboys and cowgirls in it and tells u how to start readin it. I'll even sign my name and drop u a little note doc.
 
Cowhunter, you are big enough to forgive those that think it's cute to mock you. Try not to let those steroids do your talking.
Take care and hang in there.
 
Dylan Biggs said:
Purecountry, I can't help wonder about the guy that sold the highland cow. I hope he didn't have to haul her very far to get to the sale barn, or he may have spent more on his fuel than what he got paid. I wonder how many more he is looking forward to raising and selling?
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Actually Dylan the gentleman that sold them was elderly, and couldn't care for them anymore. They were thin and looked rough, it was just one of those days where someone took their cows to the wrong market with no thought or planning into the marketing - we've all had those. Instead of taking them to an "odd and unusual sale" or promoting them a bit which would have attracted more folks looking for these kind of animals, they called a truck in, called the auction and said they're on their way. All the younger stock went to a guy in Sask for quite a bit more than my $42 cow. This one was by far the cheapest.
 

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