• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Working Dogs (This one's for you Soap)

Help Support Ranchers.net:

Another dog story.

We lived in California during my career with a major oil company.

Most of the back yards in California are about ten feet square unless the ground is not good for anything else. Our house was on a hillside and when we went outside, we overlooked the yard in the house next door.

Some new neighbors from India moved in - he was an engineer with Bechtel Corporation. They had some sort of a cur dog that was a real pain. Every time I went into the back yard, the dog would start barking and wouldn't stop until I went back inside. The neighbors would even be in the yard and never did anything to keep their dog quiet. This became very irritating after a few months. Talks with the neighbors were ignored.

I finally went out and bought an air rifle. We had a retaining wall that provided pretty good cover so every time I went out, I took the air rifle and shot that miserable barking cur. In a couple of weeks time, the problem was solved - when I went out back, the dog scurried into the garage and didn't come out until I was back inside. Problem solved, but it really had been pretty good sport shooting that miserable cur and I missed it.

One day, the neighbors had a patio party. There were about 40 people there and here comes the cur looking up at me like "what are you going to do now, wise guy?" He was walking around the yard with impunity - or sol he thought. I carefully concealed myself behind the retaining wall and waited my chance. All the people were just behind a wall and the cur was about two feet away from his owner when I popped him. He let out a yelp and the owner says "Poopsie, what is the matter?." They never figured it out.

One day, the neighbor comes to the door and wants to borrow a "spanner", apparently a wrench, to remove a starter from a car. I went into his garage to assess what kind of a wrench he needed.

Lo and behold, there must have been 50 BBs laying around on the floor of his garage, mostly close to the walk door where I had been practicing my sharpshooting skills.

Believe it or not, he never even noticed or wondered where those had come from. Talk about unaware!!

Just so you won't think I am cruel, that dog bit several young kids in the neighborhood. He should have been put down, but I kept him pretty well pinned down.

By the way, those folks were unusual. They put a spinkler system in and left the pipes ON TOP OF THE GROUND. Where they crossed a sidewalk, the pipes were on top and you had to be careful where you walked. The fact that he was an engineer with Bechtel building refineries and major chemical plants always concerned me.
 
Soapweed said:
A few years ago we had four dogs kicking around the place, all with "cowdog" bloodlines. Early one morning we heard a ruckus in a small lot where we had some selling cows. The stupid dogs chased about fifteen head of cows half a mile and through two fences. Gates were wrecked, fences tore down, and my tolerance for cow dogs hit rock bottom right then and there. It wasn't long before we had two less dogs, and the other two are still on probation. :?
Click to expand...
dogs were doin what they're bred to do,always should tie up or lock up a good stock dog!! 8)
 
I hate a barkin dog to. I get these bark collars at tractor supply and they help a lot but like u did, a good old bb gun will sure shut them up. Sometimes I just shoot the water bucket. If ours r barkin, there's somethin goin on like a stray in the yard or somebody pulled up. Also, the word cur down here don't mean a mutt. Its a breed. Mutts down here r called sh!t eaters. there r several breeds of curs. Yella blackmouth curs from texas. Laddners from miss. Kemmer curs from tenisee. And many more. They say the originated in england at a stockyard and was a cross between a bulldog and a fox hound. Lots are born bobtailed. Like a english bulldog. Mine r. Some times every pup. Sometimes over half the litter.
 
The monkey and the foot ball reminds me of my neighbor who's dog was named Sarge. Old Sarge was no good for anything at all but causing trouble. My female came in season and I penned her up in a heat pen I built. Old Sarge came to visit and had his mouth all bloody from trying to get in the pen. I called the neighbor to come and get his dog. He came but within a few hours, old Sarge was back at my place and at that fence again. That time I just got my banding pliers and banded old Sarge. A few months later I asked my neighbor what had happened to Sarge cause I never seen him any more". He said " I don't know what's the matter with that SOB, he just lays around the barn and must have gained 20 pounds!
 
greg said:
Soapweed said:
A few years ago we had four dogs kicking around the place, all with "cowdog" bloodlines. Early one morning we heard a ruckus in a small lot where we had some selling cows. The stupid dogs chased about fifteen head of cows half a mile and through two fences. Gates were wrecked, fences tore down, and my tolerance for cow dogs hit rock bottom right then and there. It wasn't long before we had two less dogs, and the other two are still on probation. :?
Click to expand...
dogs were doin what they're bred to do,always should tie up or lock up a good stock dog!! 8)
Click to expand...

That's right!!!
 
I am reviving this topic hoping you guys will help me.

I am writing an article about hired help using or wanting to use dogs.
I am including the article(unfinished) so you can have an idea what I am after. The article(if accepted) will be published in the Stockdog Journal.

If you have anything that you would like to contribute - Just pick your section(hired help/boss) tell me your story (and answer the main questions I listed) and I will include you in the article.

I have someone that will edit the article so you don't have to worry about being a proper writer.

Thanks
Karen Hart

Working Dogs: Employees and Bosses

Its hard enough getting going with a dog when the only person you have to motivate and please is yourself. Add in having to convince a boss and keep him/her satisfied during the transition period makes it an even bigger obstacle to overcome.
I have interviewed several people on all sides of this issue. Hopefully their stories will make it easier to get your boss on board with using dogs and give you insight to your part in making sure it works out for them.


If you are lucky your boss might see some value in using dogs and might be realistic enough to know things aren't going to be smooth at first- and might even be forward thinking enough to understand that you get what you pay for.
Odds are they won't and you will be fighting an uphill battle. One thing I have learned over the years is that working a dog to impress someone else ALWAYS backfires sooner or latter, resist the urge to showcase your dog, and don't have the mindset that the dog has to be perfect all the time so that you look good all the time. Working a dog(even a good one) is a constantly humbling experience- accept that fact and things will go better for everyone involved..

First obstacle is to convince the boss that dogs will EVENTUALLY improve working conditions for both the stock and the employees. Don't oversell the product as being a perfect solution- new dogs and new handlers are anything but perfect at first. We need to be selling the future, The first dog/dogs are going to be costly(time and money) and some are going to be complete failures. But after that the ranch/farm can have an endless supply that start a lot easier. Having an experienced handler and dog broke stock(or dogs good enough to break stock constantly) are the key to eventual success with dogs. That takes time for most people to accomplish and it might not even be done with the first couple of dogs.

Trust is a key ingredient. The boss has to trust that using a dog is going to make him money. The boss has to trust that you are going to work his stock the way he wants them to be worked. There are some bosses that will want the cattle intimidated and will be disappointed if there aren't some tore up ears. But most are going to be worried that the stock or the fences will take too much punishment- and end up costing him money. It helps if you have already proven that you have stock sense and just want the dogs to make things work better.

Education is the next key ingredient. Get your boss involved with going to other ranches, fundays or trails to see good dogs working. Get you boss on the internet to read and see (utube) others who are using dogs. Get into conversations about what you like and don't like about dogs/handlers you are watching with you and other handlers. Get them some books to read about training so they understand what is involved. Try to get the boss to let other people bring trained dogs over so he can see first hand how things could be better on his own place with his own stock. Be VERY careful to pick the right people/dogs to come- the last thing you want is bad dogs or a bad handler showing up.
Make sure he understands that cattle need to be broke before everything settles down and gets smooth looking- even with good dogs.


Sometimes we have to counter a bosses bad experiences with dogs/handlers in the past. This is tough , its a lot easier to sell an idea if the person doesn't already have a bad taste in their mouth that you have to overcome. People that don't understand dogs will blanket all dogs by that one experience. Its even harder to overcome a prejudice against other people that used dogs and left them unimpressed. This happens a lot when cattlemens first exposure is to sheepdogs trying to work unbroken stock or they get ahold of a dog of the right breed but not bred for livestock work(lots of them around). Or they watched someones dogs run cattle thru fences or ripped their ears to shreds- or worse failed to get the job done.



It helps greatly if the boss is also interested in the dogs and takes some personal satisfaction in their being used. My Husband (who persists in the thought that hes my boss) is not a dog person and has no concept of training. He gets no joy out of seeing a dog work. He also sees no need for dogs. If I would just listen to him and try harder I could get done everything without having to BOTHER with a dog. My husband has this unique ability to just look at cows/calves and have them do whatever he wants them to even at a distance.. He really does have no need of dogs.
He can't understand that I don't have that natural influence on cattle and I never will. The only reason I have dogs is that I threatened to quit unless he let me use them. I think that is also part of the reason he will never appreciate them. Plus he has blinded vision, he doesn't remember the bad stuff in the past, that having the dogs has permanently fixed.
No "boss" accepts gracefully being forced into using dogs, especially if the boss is your husband too. In hindsight I don't think there is anything I could have done differently that would have made a difference to his view of dogs. Some "bosses" are just a lost cause.
So leverage works, but it will cause resentment on both sides.


Following are some more stories from other bosses and hired hands of their experiences.



Questions

Bosses who already let employees use dogs

Tell me your story?

Did you see a need for dogs in the beginning or did someone have to prompt you – and what convinced you that getting dogs was a good idea(either way)?

What were your reservations?

Were there some employees you were more comfortable with the idea of them using dogs and why?

What were your main roadblocks to getting started with using dogs?

What would you change about how you started if you had a do over?

What was the most effective incentive for you to try dogs?

Is there something I have not addressed that should be in the article?



Bosses who refuse to try dogs

Tell me your story

Why are you against using dogs?

Are there any circumstances that could possibly change your mind?


Employees that convinced a Boss to use dogs

Tell me your story.

What were your most effective inputs to convince your boss to use dogs?

What were the drawbacks to being the one wanting to use dogs?

If you had a do over what would you do different?

Is there something I have not addressed that should be in the article?
 
About a year after I got out of high school, my younger brother got a Collie pup from some people in Kilgore. Dad and I picked it up and brought it back in the pickup and he got car sick. I spent a lot of time with him on a leash and practically pulled him up on a bale pile. Once up there he liked it and after that he would always be climbing on a haystack or bale pile.
Dad taught him to help put in the chickens in the evening. He would never harm anything, and was good with the chickens.
We had some young cats that grew up with him and they would play together. He always loved to climb the ladder into the hay loft to find new kittens. He would search the out and stick his long nose in there and the mother cat would swat him and he would go right back in.
My sister also spent a lot of time with Rover too.
Rover also was good with pigs and would go and put them back in the pen if told that they were out. He could make a pig go anywhere he wanted by grabbing them by the tendon on the back leg, but he didn't harm them.
Rover would bring cattle in if your were with him, and herded them well. One time a cow kicked him and then when he had a chance, he sneaked up and bit her on the rear leg.
He loved riding on the hay sled whenever someone went to get hay or feed hay, riding on the front of the sled.
Rover was so dumb that he would do anything you asked him to do, even climb a ladder, or jump onto something.
I think you have to spend a lot of time with a dog to get him to trust you and understand what you want like that.
That goes for cats too, I had this one litter of kittens, (3 black and white males and one female with large yellow, white and black spots) that loved for me to go out with them and explore the neighborhood.
The neighbor kids helped to name them: Max, Herb, Herman and Fannie.
One night when they were about 1 1/2 years old, they were following me around the block. They all stopped and were looking around a trash can, and Herman kept following me. Herman had been run over when he was about 5 months old, and for a couple of weeks could not use his back legs, and slowly recovered.
Anyway, Herman was walking beside me and then the other cats came running, following a large rat. The rat was outrunnning them. Herman then took off after the rat. I didn't know he could run that fast. He was a big long legged cat and thinnner then his brothers. He ran up along side the rat and with perfect coordination, reached over and clamped his teeth into the rats shoulder, braking with his front feet, swinging his rear around with his long tail swinging, and he had the rat!
Herman left home because his brothers liked to wrestle and he didn't like that. He found a home just a block north with some other cats that accepted him. For about three years I would see him over there, and sometimes would see him about a half a block away on the sidewalk. I would say, "Herman, is that you?" and he would come running with loud meowing to meet me. But he never stayed.
Herb just came up missing one day, and some one swerved over and ran over Fannie as she sat at the edge of the street worring about kittens playing under the street light one night.
And Max, my best mouser and hunter, was recently killed by a dog.

So I think the best dog (or cat) is a product of spending a lot of time with them, or training them.
 
whose really your best friend? your dog or your wife?

stick them both in the trunk of your car for an hour, and when you open it up.

whose happy to see you
 

Latest posts

Top