cattle dealers

Things that come up in the daily operation of a ranch.
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Soapweed
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Post by Soapweed » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:29 pm

lazy ace wrote:
Soapweed wrote:
lazy ace wrote:Hey Soapweed how do you market your calves in the fall?

have a good one

lazy ace
I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace
They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :-) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.



Oldtimer

Post by Oldtimer » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:31 pm

Soapweed wrote:
lazy ace wrote:
Soapweed wrote: I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace
They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :-) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.
Must be Joe Rafters relative :???: :wink:

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Post by Soapweed » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:33 pm

Oldtimer wrote:
Soapweed wrote:
lazy ace wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace
They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :-) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.
Must be Joe Rafters relative :???: :wink:
And a cousin to Ralph Roof and Sally Ceiling. :-)

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Post by Justin » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:34 pm

Soapweed wrote:
lazy ace wrote:
Soapweed wrote: I market them through a sale barn. On regular feeder sales, there is very little hanky-panky, but at bull sales and Black Hills Stock Show horse sales it runs rampant. Another pet peeve of mine when it gets down to the end on selling a bull, is when the auctioneer will only take a $250 bid and nothing else. That is a full $500 from the bidder's last bid. To the big name bull purveyors that doesn't sound like much. To a commercial cattleman, that is the price of one calf, or far more than what is costs to travel to the bull sale in the first place.

Just my humble thoughts, for what they are worth. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: Those auctioneers at the Black Hills Stock Show are just rotten :roll: especially when they sell at every major auction market in the fall selling feeder cattle.

have a good one

lazy ace
They do a good job--sometimes it is just too good a job, and way beyond the call of duty. :wink: :-) And the fieldmen can be just as guilty.

In my dad's first Hereford bull auction at the ranch in 1973, some of the ringmen got a bit carried away. When the sale was over, a Ron Wall supposedly from Chadron, Nebraska, had "bought" three bulls. There was no such person, and Dad got hung with those three bulls. The following year, my dad had a little visit with the auctioneer and sales crew before the sale started. He told them he wanted an honest sale run, and if nobody bid to not act like someone did. Well, about three bulls into the sale, they hung up on a rafter bid. Dad stopped the sale, and told those guys in a little firmer tone of voice that he meant what he said. The mob frenzy was no longer part of the deal, but the rest of the sale was on the up-and-up.


:clap: :clap:

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Post by jingo2 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:49 pm

DejaVu wrote:Okay. Here's the story from the other side. I buy those calves. I buy mainly over the internet. I get them home and must have GOOD pens. These calves might weigh 600lbs and are right off the cow. No shots, never have seen a feed bunk. Absolutely no health program behind them. Some are still bulls, some have had an idiot cut them and leave one nut, some have had the nuts shoved up in them and then banded. :mad: So I spend the money on shots, worming, and probably antibiotics. I damn near live with these calves for weeks. Out of 100, I'll probably lose 2. That's my average. I have them bunk broke, hot wire broke, all vaccinations up to date, and more tame than they came in. They get salt and mineral. Fresh clean water. I do the work that someone is too lazy to do. You have issues with that? I see no reason to reward anyone with high prices for his calves when he didn't do anything to earn it. That's the government's job, it's called welfare. We don't need it when it comes to our cattle. My opinion is, animal cruelty starts with the person too lazy, too indifferent to provide herd health. He/she is selling those calves with no regard to their future.


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Post by lazy ace » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:15 pm

Soapweed I applaud your father for his great honesty and integrity. My family is also a purebred operation, holding our 32nd annual sale and being in the purebred business since the early sixties. Grandpa and dad have worked there butts off to have a good honest reputation backing it up with sound cattle. I can honestly say what happened at your dad's sale has never happened here that I can recall. I am really surprised that the same crew that hung your dad for three bulls got a second chance :oops: No second chances here for that kind of crap.

We have known our ring staff and auctioneer for years and left them money and have had them buy cattle for us at numerous sales. We have had them call people for us sale day and represent cattle for us. We have had the ring men talk people out of certain bulls because that animal would not work for the potential buyers situation. Our no sale bulls are announced as they walk out the ring.

I have no grievance with the way you buy bulls but am just tired of every purebred breeder that has an auction being the scoundrels of the earth and accused of taking all the funny money and rafter bidding.

I have read 14 pages on how CAB is a well oiled machine and is helping the industry by selling more beef. It is definitely true it is all about marketing the product you raise and being proud of it. Selling bulls for a purebred outfit is no different. The average reader takes roughly three seconds on every picture they see in an advertisement. When you are paying for advertising you are going to put the best picture you can possibly take to draw attention.

Now I am not sure why auctioneers only take $250 bids. We gladly take $100 bids. You are right that is a lot of money for both buyer and seller. What would you say if the auction market sold your calves without trying to get that last dime out of them? I have witnessed plenty of feeder sales that they backed up and started over at a lower price and on the other hand have seen cattle start above market and go from there.

Now on a lighter note sale barns is a common name for livestock auction markets but some owners don't appreciate being called sale barns. It would be the same thing if an auction market owner came into Cherry County Nebraska and told you that you had a good looking farm. Some like the respect and courtesy.

have a good one

lazy ace :wink:

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cattle dealers

Post by Hay Feeder » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Cherry County is normal cattle country. Got a great herd bull at Valentine he lasted here 9 years.

Where I live almost every sale barn is owned by cattle traders. Those guys have to buy everything sold that day for a price. That day they have to feed, haul and do there own vet work on them. So many people just make stupid mistakes in marketing their cattle and thats when the cattle trader makes his money. Just this week someone sold black cows with new born babys on them, because they did not have to worry those calves in the winter.. Those cow calf pairs were dumped next door for three days and then loaded to another sale barn and resold again in 4 days. The kid that hauls the cattle had to take individual sale barns tags off the cows and calves for his boss so they would look farm fresh.
BTW that was our local vet that bought and resold these. Sale barn trader and vet all in one package.
He also does the preg and semen checks at two not so popular sale barns.

Cattle dealer in Cherry County and Vet cattle trader here are two differnt slices of the pie.

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Post by BlackCattleRancher » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:15 pm

Hayfeeder, you are correct. There are cattle dealers in cattle country, and there are cattle dealers in the Corn Belt, and other places I'm sure. Seller and buyer beware when you wander into salebarns around here.

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Post by Soapweed » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:12 pm

lazy ace wrote:Soapweed I applaud your father for his great honesty and integrity. My family is also a purebred operation, holding our 32nd annual sale and being in the purebred business since the early sixties. Grandpa and dad have worked there butts off to have a good honest reputation backing it up with sound cattle. I can honestly say what happened at your dad's sale has never happened here that I can recall. I am really surprised that the same crew that hung your dad for three bulls got a second chance :oops: No second chances here for that kind of crap.

We have known our ring staff and auctioneer for years and left them money and have had them buy cattle for us at numerous sales. We have had them call people for us sale day and represent cattle for us. We have had the ring men talk people out of certain bulls because that animal would not work for the potential buyers situation. Our no sale bulls are announced as they walk out the ring.

I have no grievance with the way you buy bulls but am just tired of every purebred breeder that has an auction being the scoundrels of the earth and accused of taking all the funny money and rafter bidding.

I have read 14 pages on how CAB is a well oiled machine and is helping the industry by selling more beef. It is definitely true it is all about marketing the product you raise and being proud of it. Selling bulls for a purebred outfit is no different. The average reader takes roughly three seconds on every picture they see in an advertisement. When you are paying for advertising you are going to put the best picture you can possibly take to draw attention.

Now I am not sure why auctioneers only take $250 bids. We gladly take $100 bids. You are right that is a lot of money for both buyer and seller. What would you say if the auction market sold your calves without trying to get that last dime out of them? I have witnessed plenty of feeder sales that they backed up and started over at a lower price and on the other hand have seen cattle start above market and go from there.

Now on a lighter note sale barns is a common name for livestock auction markets but some owners don't appreciate being called sale barns. It would be the same thing if an auction market owner came into Cherry County Nebraska and told you that you had a good looking farm. Some like the respect and courtesy.

have a good one

lazy ace :wink:
You have raised many very good points, lazy ace, and I respect your thoughts. In my case, I got burned out on the purebred business way back in my youth. It seemed like a lot of hard work without too many rewards. At the time my dad was trying to sell something that was rapidly going out of style. I was in my twenties when he was having bull sales at the ranch. Dad read and re-read the breed journals. He knew the pedigrees, and could talk the talk. My own interests were just in being a cowboy. I didn't care two whoops and a holler for showing cattle, or messing with pedigrees. I was a good cowhand and ranch worker, but just flat didn't like the hoopla of the registered business and bull sales.

We would get several loads of ear corn every year, along with several truck loads of oats. It was my job to grind all of this feed with only a scoop shovel to keep me company. Then it all had to be hauled out to feed bunks with gunny sacks over my shoulder. Each sack contained three five gallon bucketfuls of grain, or about 90 pounds per sack. I could step out of the house early in the morning, clean and feeling like a cowboy. By the time I came in for breakfast, I'd be dirty and dusty from all the grain, and have enough oat dust down my gizard to be itchy for the rest of the day. Not that I didn't want to be a rancher, but way back then I figured if I ever got into a position of authority, things were going to be different. Now my philosophy is to run the most cattle on the least amount of work per head possible. Black Angus fill the bill as well as anything.

Sorry for hijacking my own post. :roll: Anyway, I appreciate honesty and integrity, from people in all walks of life. When people are dishonest, it blows our faith in humanity.

Thanks for educating me on the difference between a sale barn and an auction market. I have always used the terms interchangeably, and find that this is in error. I will try to mend my ways. All of your points were presented very well, and I have taken them all into consideration. Sorry if I have stepped on anyone's toes in my earlier commentary, but there is enough of that kind of B.S. that goes on to make many of us wary.

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Post by gcreekrch » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:56 am

Sadly enough, most people you/we deal with are only as honest as you make them be. :wink:
Don't tell people your problems, half of em' don't care and the other half are glad you got em' We can all run the neighbors better'n our own

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Post by PPRM » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:45 am

A freind of mine once called and said he was buying his dads calves because his dad always got "Screwed at the Auction". After 3 years of making no money and me explaining there are 10 guys buying who make thier living at paying what cattle are worth; I think he gets it. Those 10 guys seldom ever let someone make a steal.....
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Post by Soapweed » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:50 am

Kind of along the same lines, is it ethical for an auctioneer or seller to advertise a "complete" cattle dispersion, and then not sell every cow? How about an "absolute" land auction where the land doesn't actually sell? The seller is ultimately responsible to answer their conscience on the matter. However, it would also seem if an auctioneer is involved where they knowlingly advertise a "complete dispersion," or an "absolute land auction," and these conditions don't happen, the credibility of the auctioneer is also at stake.

Both absolute and complete basically mean "all" with nothing held back. It is a fairly easy straight-forward concept, and one which should be adhered to if it is advertised as such.

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