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11th Circuit Grants Tyson "Economic" Eminent Domai

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Elementary economics: "SH, under your scenario, why would packers use the captive supply at a higher price when they could get a lower price in the cash market for the same delivery date?"

The formula cattle were sold last week. Their price is based on last week's price for delivery this week. The formula cattle are already committed. The packer can't back out on the deal just because this week's cash market is lower. I guess the packer should sue the feeders for market manipulation in that case huh? Same ridiculous logic.

You probably didn't understand a thing I said again.


~SH~
 
~SH~ said:
Elementary economics: "SH, under your scenario, why would packers use the captive supply at a higher price when they could get a lower price in the cash market for the same delivery date?"

The formula cattle were sold last week. Their price is based on last week's price for delivery this week. The formula cattle are already committed. The packer can't back out on the deal just because this week's cash market is lower. I guess the packer should sue the feeders for market manipulation in that case huh? Same ridiculous logic.

You probably didn't understand a thing I said again.


~SH~

No, they just are not allowed to break the enumerated prohibitions of Section 202 of the Packers and Stockyards Act of 1921. A "legitimate business reason" is no excuse to break the act. Tyson just mixed a legitimate business reason of having captive supplies with abuse of them to lower the cash market and hence the overall cattle price producers got.
 
~SH~ said:
There was no PSA violation! NONE! You are wrong again.



~SH~

That is just your opinion. To come up with that conclusion, the appellate courts had to add something in the law. They showed their ignorance of an economic law meant to curb the abuses of market power by not interpreting it litterally. They had to have the word "whatsoever" taken out by the Clinton administration for a 5 year time period to get some case law that made it easier to change the "or"s into "and"s in the case law (Glickman vs. IBP included, Agman).

They rewrote the law to get the answer they wanted. All this started with Hillary's payoff through Tyson of $100,00.00+- from the insider trading commodities scam. Attorney Bill Clinton already knows how to change the meaning of little words. What is the definition of "is"?

What gets me is that this scam goes over two administrations and includes either a little help from the USDA or requires them to take a little "nap". They have been "napping" on a lot of poultry issues that have come before GIPSA and the court even cited the London case, where another judge overruled the jury.

Maybe we should just not have a jury system anymore and rely on compromised judges like they do in Mexico. Oh, that is already the reality. This case screams for justice. So far those screams have been muted by Tyson's money machine. These are more like mafia tactics. I suppose that is why the poultry people call Tyson the chicken mafia. It doesn't help to have Arlen Specter on the Senate Judiciary Committee. He acts in the Senate as if he is still representing the interests of Frank Perdue, as he did before he became governor of Pennsylvania. And yes, Frank Perdue did have ties to the mafia (Frank died earlier this year). Some people are obviously above the law when they have friends in such high places.

The process for complaints for poultry goes like this: GIPSA investigates (or tries to squash any investigation and tell Tyson who made the complaint) and then asks the Justice Department to prosecute. They never do. Economic harms are never corrected and farmers never collect the value of the economic harm. All tied in a nice and convenient little bow.

The power of the packer's influence at the USDA is showing up in this, the Bush administration but the seeds were planted a long time ago. Wendy Gramm has a lot to do with it, as her hands are soiled by her influence by being on the board of the commodities futures trading board, enron, ibp, and the ultra conservative think tank in Texas that Delay is now having to deal with.

All of these are economic harms. Wendy and her husband, x-Senator Phil Gramm are both economists in positions that would allow these scams to be played out. What a story!

These abuses create deadweight losses in the economy. They have enriched a few choice politicians at the expense of the producers. They are a part of the revolving door politics here in the U.S. and they underpin the current loathesomeness of our current government.
 
Econ101 said:
Agman, I know the avenue for publication well. The fingers run deep. Publishing articles in the current ag. economic publications doesn't mean a thing. I could give you example after example of that problem. Are you saying that to not have "Daubert" issues you have to be published in the current ag.eco publications? That is a joke. The current USDA/economics funding is and should be scrutinized. If the USDA can not come up with the right reporting in the cattle industry to be able to clearly see if market power is exerted (which is the main criticism or the panhandle studies in the peer review) then why should they be able to pull the money strings of economic papers and research at the land grant universities? Their incompetence is only multiplied.

You refer to Hauseman. How much did he get paid from any source? Are you willing to expose his potential bias?

You don't want this discussion to go any further because too many people will see what you don't want them to see.

Did Taylor do his work for the plaintiff's pro-bono? I think you overlooked that in your haste to make another phony accusation. Your comment... How much did he get paid from any source? Why is it OK for Taylor to get paid for his services and not Hauseman? You are simply too easy and transparent to fool anyone but yourself.

I did not say he had to be published. I just pointed out that Taylor is a production economist, not an econometrician. Unless he has published anything recently up to the point of trial he had issued only one paper on the livestock industry which was not subjected to peer review.
 
agman said:
Econ101 said:
Agman, I know the avenue for publication well. The fingers run deep. Publishing articles in the current ag. economic publications doesn't mean a thing. I could give you example after example of that problem. Are you saying that to not have "Daubert" issues you have to be published in the current ag.eco publications? That is a joke. The current USDA/economics funding is and should be scrutinized. If the USDA can not come up with the right reporting in the cattle industry to be able to clearly see if market power is exerted (which is the main criticism or the panhandle studies in the peer review) then why should they be able to pull the money strings of economic papers and research at the land grant universities? Their incompetence is only multiplied.

You refer to Hauseman. How much did he get paid from any source? Are you willing to expose his potential bias?

You don't want this discussion to go any further because too many people will see what you don't want them to see.

Did Taylor do his work for the plaintiff's pro-bono? I think you overlooked that in your haste to make another phony accusation. Your comment... How much did he get paid from any source? Why is it OK for Taylor to get paid for his services and not Hauseman? You are simply too easy and transparent to fool anyone but yourself.

I did not say he had to be published. I just pointed out that Taylor is a production economist, not an econometrician. Unless he has published anything recently up to the point of trial he had issued only one paper on the livestock industry which was not subjected to peer review.

I don't know if Taylor got paid. You seem to know the packer side of every issue so I asked you about Hausman. Hauseman getting paid or not getting paid is of interest in a contextual aspect but his argument against Taylor's work with specifics is something I am more interested in.

If the judge and then appellate court (they proved they don't know anything about economics with their RPA example) were not capable of understanding the economics involved why would they overturn the jury? In their judgements they said NOTHING substantive about the disagreement between Hausman and Taylor. I simply asked for the reasons for overturning the verdict and the Daubert issues they raised. Specifics are required here, not their personal judgements. They were not the jury. A simple "nuts" is not enough.

Do you have those arguments, Agman, and why were they not in the decisions?

As far as Taylor's economic work, I have read it and found it to be much more real world than many econometrician's esoteric study of probable tainted data. Garbage in, garbage out. This was one of the complaints with Schroeder's panhandle study. If the data collected is biased then the outcome will be biased. The ag. economists that looked over the work pointed this out as a criticism. Looks like the USDA wants to go shopping for economist to agree with them instead of find answers. Same with the GIPSA data gathering mechanisms.


If you want to discuss some of the tainted studies, I would be glad to oblige.

Did you ever find your Glickman vs. IBP example?
 
Isn't it ironic that the 9th court said the USDA should be given deference as they should be in the position to know their field, but Strom decided he knew more about economics than Dr. Taylor and he himself should be given deference?
 
ECON wrote"Maybe we should just not have a jury system anymore and rely on compromised judges like they do in Mexico. Oh, that is already the reality. "


We feel the same about Judge Cebull.
 

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