14 day AI protocol???

[Howdy1]

Has anyone used the 14 Day CIDR program for AI. I am thinking of AI'ing my first calf heifers for the first time and I am trying to decide between the 7 day or 14 day protocols. I read that conception is much better with 14d but it is also another trip up the chute.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Howdy

 

[starvin'dog]

I'd be tempted to split the heifers and re-use the cidr's. Still get the heifers bred in about the same time for less $. Your repeats should be spread out some too.

 

[cowman52]

not sure how many head you want to run but if you have over 100 split it in 2 groups- have always had the feeling that after 50 head you are a bit out of step with ovulation-- have used lutalayse since it came out of mexico in 5 cc ampules and seems that ovulation in drug induced heats is a little closer to standing heat-- just my opinion-- we have also had equal conception using ova cyst or cysterillin in stead of the cidors-- the cidors change the ph of the vagina and cut down on semen quality-- just another opinion for what it's worth
best of luck to you

 

[LRAF]

Personally not a fan of cidrs but have used them on both cows and heifers with some success. Last year we used lutalyse alone on 15 of a buddies heifers and I settled 12 of them on the first service. Much better than using cidrs. Although our genex Rep is very high on the 14 day protocol I think will stick to the shots for now from our experience.

 

[redrobin]

Cidr's are an advantage. 14 day cidr protocol is also better than 7.

 

[hypocritexposer]

7 day co-synch will be the same conception % on average(not knowing your management system), but gain you time, IMO.


Have you considered an MGA protocol and then a CIDR protocol, to reduce costs?

 

[redrobin]

7 day co-synch will be the same conception % on average(not knowing your management system), but gain you time, IMO.


Have you considered an MGA protocol and then a CIDR protocol, to reduce costs?

That MGA followed by cidr is good. So is gnrh/pg followed by cidr if you have the time to check heats. I don't buy that 7day cosynch is as good as the 14day cidr protocol. The 14day cidr is a much more natural heat and you can use the cidr implant for your prebreeding vacs since it's 33days till insemination. To each their own. Hypo do you not have several cattle in heat early with the cosynch? I guess I should as the question, are we talking timed A.I. ?

 

[hypocritexposer]

7 day co-synch will be the same conception % on average(not knowing your management system), but gain you time, IMO.


Have you considered an MGA protocol and then a CIDR protocol, to reduce costs?

That MGA followed by cidr is good. So is gnrh/pg followed by cidr if you have the time to check heats. I don't buy that 7day cosynch is as good as the 14day cidr protocol. The 14day cidr is a much more natural heat and you can use the cidr implant for your prebreeding vacs since it's 33days till insemination. To each their own. Hypo do you not have several cattle in heat early with the cosynch? I guess I should as the question, are we talking timed A.I. ?

Breed on heat, even if they are early.

If you can check/palpate for heats, all the better. I realize this doesn't always work in the larger groups, and negates the advantage of timed AI, somewhat, but it is all about the conception rate.

When I say "breed on heat", this also means breeding on CIDR insertion day, if determined to be in heat.

If any advantage can be gained at time of handling, it's a plus.

 

[hillsdown]

7 day co-synch will be the same conception % on average(not knowing your management system), but gain you time, IMO.


Have you considered an MGA protocol and then a CIDR protocol, to reduce costs?

That MGA followed by cidr is good. So is gnrh/pg followed by cidr if you have the time to check heats. I don't buy that 7day cosynch is as good as the 14day cidr protocol. The 14day cidr is a much more natural heat and you can use the cidr implant for your prebreeding vacs since it's 33days till insemination. To each their own. Hypo do you not have several cattle in heat early with the cosynch? I guess I should as the question, are we talking timed A.I. ?

Breed on heat, even if they are early.

If you can check/palpate for heats, all the better. I realize this doesn't always work in the larger groups, and negates the advantage of timed AI, somewhat, but it is all about the conception rate.

What is the conception rate for you this way Hypo ?

 

[hypocritexposer]

That MGA followed by cidr is good. So is gnrh/pg followed by cidr if you have the time to check heats. I don't buy that 7day cosynch is as good as the 14day cidr protocol. The 14day cidr is a much more natural heat and you can use the cidr implant for your prebreeding vacs since it's 33days till insemination. To each their own. Hypo do you not have several cattle in heat early with the cosynch? I guess I should as the question, are we talking timed A.I. ?

Breed on heat, even if they are early.

If you can check/palpate for heats, all the better. I realize this doesn't always work in the larger groups, and negates the advantage of timed AI, somewhat, but it is all about the conception rate.

What is the conception rate for you this way Hypo ?

I haven't bred cattle for a while now, But when I was doing it, I found that the natural heats were always the best, whether determining that at time of CIDR insertion or not.

If I had to take an educated guess on the difference, I would say about 3-5% were in heat on insertion day.

Saving quite a bit of $$, through the savings of CIDRs and PG/GnRH.

Conception would run about 2-5% better than just the TAI.

The difference between the 14 and 7 day protocol are variable, but on average, much the same. So the extra possible 2% makes a difference no matter what protocol you choose

Heat detection is worth the time spent.

 

[redrobin]

I thought we were talking strait TAI. GNRH plus PG is all I would use unless they were anestrus . If anestrus, then a 7 day suits me fine for just bringing them into heat. Why spend the time and money though unless you can save lots of labor? I'm a TAI fan. Generally speaking total pregnant to AI is just as high with TAI as heat detect unless you're serious about heat detection. Very serious. Conception rate per cows exposed is higher with heat detection but TAI is as high conception rate to AI for a total group... at least it is for me here.

 

[hypocritexposer]

I thought we were talking strait TAI. GNRH plus PG is all I would use unless they were anestrus . If anestrus, then a 7 day suits me fine for just bringing them into heat. Why spend the time and money though unless you can save lots of labor? I'm a TAI fan. Generally speaking total pregnant to AI is just as high with TAI as heat detect unless you're serious about heat detection. Very serious. Conception rate per cows exposed is higher with heat detection but TAI is as high conception rate to AI for a total group... at least it is for me here.

Depends on the size of group, IMO. But, if one or 2 are in heat when inserting CIDRs, why not breed them?

Throw them aside as bred, and save the time of running them through the chute again.

I realize it is a balancing act between time and convenience, but if it was only about convenience you wouldn't be using AI at all. It comes down to what works for your type of management system and parameters.

But one has to look at all possibilities to determine what might work best for them.

Howdy mentioned breeding AI for the first time, so I think all options are on the table.

 

[hillsdown]

I have found, with my herd at least, that I have a much better conception if i do not breed on the seen heat after TAI but the next natural heat. Breeding on heat after TAI was at best 50 percent. Acceptable with a dairy herd of heavy milking cows but not a beef and definately not heifers.

Heat detction is the key to any AI program.

Thanks for the response Hypo. One of my AI reps was here yesterday dropping off an order of semen and we were discussing this. He said his succes rate was 50 percent on unseen heat timed breeding. He is either really good or I am really shytty as the last time I synced heifers and bred them all on a timed unseen heat I had 20 percent succes. Never again . :roll:

 

[redrobin]

I thought we were talking strait TAI. GNRH plus PG is all I would use unless they were anestrus . If anestrus, then a 7 day suits me fine for just bringing them into heat. Why spend the time and money though unless you can save lots of labor? I'm a TAI fan. Generally speaking total pregnant to AI is just as high with TAI as heat detect unless you're serious about heat detection. Very serious. Conception rate per cows exposed is higher with heat detection but TAI is as high conception rate to AI for a total group... at least it is for me here.

Depends on the size of group, IMO. But, if one or 2 are in heat when inserting CIDRs, why not breed them?

Throw them aside as bred, and save the time of running them through the chute again.

I realize it is a balancing act between time and convenience, but if it was only about convenience you wouldn't be using AI at all. It comes down to what works for your type of management system and parameters.

But one has to look at all possibilities to determine what might work best for them.

Howdy mentioned breeding AI for the first time, so I think all options are on the table.

Well for starters if I'm on a 33day protocol involving a 14day cidr, I don't want a heifer (or cow) calving a month out of the calving window. Secondly I'm just pretty simple. When I'm installing cidrs I don't have my tank, thaw unit, or gun. :lol:

 

[hypocritexposer]

I have found, with my herd at least, that I have a much better conception if i do not breed on the seen heat after TAI but the next natural heat. Breeding on heat after TAI was at best 50 percent. Acceptable with a dairy herd of heavy milking cows but not a beef and definately not heifers.

Heat detction is the key to any AI program.

Thanks for the response Hypo. One of my AI reps was here yesterday dropping off an order of semen and we were discussing this. He said his succes rate was 50 percent on unseen heat timed breeding. He is either really good or I am really shytty as the last time I synced heifers and bred them all on a timed unseen heat I had 20 percent succes. Never again . :roll:

Lots of variables that's for sure. This year 50%, next year 55%, everything remaining constant.


ROI, breakeven? Debatable!

On the dairy,do you ever use GnRH to promote ovulation?

 

[hillsdown]

I have found, with my herd at least, that I have a much better conception if i do not breed on the seen heat after TAI but the next natural heat. Breeding on heat after TAI was at best 50 percent. Acceptable with a dairy herd of heavy milking cows but not a beef and definately not heifers.

Heat detction is the key to any AI program.

Thanks for the response Hypo. One of my AI reps was here yesterday dropping off an order of semen and we were discussing this. He said his success rate was 50 percent on unseen heat timed breeding. He is either really good or I am really shytty as the last time I synced heifers and bred them all on a timed unseen heat I had 20 percent success. Never again . :roll:

Lots of variables that's for sure. This year 50%, next year 55%, everything remaining constant.


ROI, breakeven? Debatable!

On the dairy,do you ever use GnRH to promote ovulation?

When we dairied we had herd health once a month, meaning preg checking etc by DR U. So we were on top of everything, he caught any cystic cattle. We used Gnrh and prostaglandin protocols often. Hubby loved it when we had a cow checked that had yet to show heat and Dr U would say she is in heat now breed to left horn . Sure enough preg check when she was 28 days, bred confirmed. I use/used CIDRS mostly with our flush program, on the flush cows and recips.
Going from a high producing dairy herd to beef is night and day and a Gv are usually always fertile , some at 4 months old. :wink:

 

[sic 'em reds]

The 7 dya Co-Synch is probably your best bet if you are going to AI once then turn them with the bull. If you are going to attempt AI after a synch program, then why even spend the money on a sych program.

Synch programs are meant for convenience.

The 30 day CIDR program has been working for alot of people.

We have been using the Co-Synch program for the last couple years and have been around 70%. This is both on heifers and cows. The turned out with the bulls.

 

[katrina]

Personally not a fan of cidrs but have used them on both cows and heifers with some success. Last year we used lutalyse alone on 15 of a buddies heifers and I settled 12 of them on the first service. Much better than using cidrs. Although our genex Rep is very high on the 14 day protocol I think will stick to the shots for now from our experience.

This is what I do too.... And about the same conception rates.... retty:

 

[Horned Hereford]

I have found, with my herd at least, that I have a much better conception if i do not breed on the seen heat after TAI but the next natural heat. Breeding on heat after TAI was at best 50 percent. Acceptable with a dairy herd of heavy milking cows but not a beef and definately not heifers.

Heat detction is the key to any AI program.

Thanks for the response Hypo. One of my AI reps was here yesterday dropping off an order of semen and we were discussing this. He said his succes rate was 50 percent on unseen heat timed breeding. He is either really good or I am really shytty as the last time I synced heifers and bred them all on a timed unseen heat I had 20 percent succes. Never again . :roll:

I have similair results. I am getting 34-37 %. I am trying a different thing this time. I think we should be hitting 50%. It is not feasable for 30% conception rate and then they are off about 28 days.

Guess thats why we have fall calves. :wink:

 

[Northern Rancher]

I've done alot of CIDR deals and had every success rate from 30% to a 100-that was only once and on twenty head of Charolais of all things. The hard thing for me is you can have wide swings in the same herd from year to year and can't pin down why. I'm tending to go back to the old ten day lutalyse deal at home or just cow ponies and wet blankets till the grass runs out in the A'I field-spent many a happy hour riding A'I with kids and friends over the years. I'm getting to like looking at cow more over a horses ears than the barrel of a CIDR gun. If you work with your vet and tech there are definately protocols that work well. The most I have ever done is 1,000 heifers in 4 days but that was a bit much lol.