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I had one last week during the storm that had both front feet back. I wasn't watching close enough and ended up pulling a dead calf out of her. Darn heifer won't take a replacement calf either. :(
 
ranch77rocket said:
I had one last week during the storm that had both front feet back. I wasn't watching close enough and ended up pulling a dead calf out of her. Darn heifer won't take a replacement calf either. :(
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Sounds like she's looking for another home,maybe in the freezer. :wink:
 
I tried to straighten out the partial torsion I ended up C-sectioning for the neighbor 3 weeks ago. At one point the cow swung right with my left arm inside, elbows aren't made to bend backwards. Still bothering me.

Lost an early born calf with a head back on the 27th. If we had been checking the older cows then we may have delivered it alive. They weren't all created to become beef I guess.
 
I had a limber - neck on a heifer this AM. First set of chains I've had on this bull's calves, and I've had 55 of them since I've started using him. Don't feel too bad about that. This will probally be his last year as he is getting crankier in his old age........like me.
 
We've pulled at least 3 backwards calves and had at least 4 with a font leg back so far. But so far we haven't had one with the head back..... I haven't seen one with the head back or a prolapse yet. I'm sure they're coming though. We seem to get a prolapse every 2-4 years whether we like it or not, and it's been at least 2 years now :shock:
We do have a heifer that's been down for about a week, and she was standing this morning so things are looking up maybe :D I think she must have fell down while calving and split / pulled something in her hips.

Now, if those two blind calves would regain their vision and we found a home for the two bummers we'd have to find something to do with our spare time!
 
A vet once told me that he thought 20% of calves born come backwards if a person was to watch every calf born. He said that some of those are born just fine with no troubles. It's those leg/neck back calves that make you wish you were "gumby"! How long do ya'll let a cow try before taking a feel to see what's not going on?

Katrina, hope the rest come front feet first and happier than a gopher in soft dirt! :wink:
 
leanin' H said:
A vet once told me that he thought 20% of calves born come backwards if a person was to watch every calf born. He said that some of those are born just fine with no troubles. It's those leg/neck back calves that make you wish you were "gumby"! How long do ya'll let a cow try before taking a feel to see what's not going on?

Katrina, hope the rest come front feet first and happier than a gopher in soft dirt! :wink:
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Thanks H.

I had been watching this little gal and I thought the other leg was right there.... Usually one is more foreward than the other.. I watched her prolly for an hour :shock: after the water broke. The head and one foot was out.. Sheesh.... :roll: I guess I shouldn't complain cuz these heifers are the sweetest I've had to handle for awhile... Last year I didn't pull a hiefier calf and only one backwards calf....
 
Had a backwards calf born last year that had brain damage . It took him almost month to be able to stand and then when he got to be around 5 months old he got to big to be able to get up anymore and I had to put him down. Was a fruitless effort on my part.

Had two heifers this year with a leg back, one was pulled while she was laying down and she didn't get back up. Moved her to the shed in the bucket of the skid steer, hauled food and water for her as well as clean bedding for 5 weeks. Not too much I could do by myself with hubby laid up . So that was my only option. The vet was coming out to put her down and do a BSE on her ,then we were to have her butchered for Nikki's dog food that I make her. Went out one morning of the week Dr u was coming out and she was standing in her pen eating. The look she gave me was priceless and I had to pick my jaw up off the ground. She is back out with the herd and doing well .If circumstances were different she would have been put down after a week, weird how things work out, not even bed sores just some swelling in her right front hock.

Hopefully this was the only blip in your calving season Katrina . :)

Silver ,do you know what caused your calves blindness ? I had a blind one born years ago, very strange. He did well and his mom was great for always being by his side even out in pasture.
 
Had a couple backwards but the feet were presented so not much of a problem. Just don't want to let them work to long so they drown the calf. Most backwards ones I either hang upside down for a bit or give them a swing and a little centrifugal force to clean the crud out of the throat.

I have come to the conclusion that many calves that have their head not presented perfect need a little more time. Seems most will go ahead and present the head if given a little time. Mainly those that their head slip back out of place once you put a little chain pressure.
 
We went to a dystocia clinic put on by dr mortimer who teaches vets in colo.

Collectively, his students will be involved in --i think--20,000 births a spring---ojt deals with several big ranches.

He calls 'back feet first' presentation 'normal'--occuring in about 5%. 'Tail first' is true breech.

One tip i got, like when head first and leg back---is to use a toilet plunger to push calf back in, so you had more room to straighten leg out.

Another--from somewhere--is have a package of Crisco---you can get it in 1/4 # sticks, like margarine----for a cow that;s dried out----with some body heat and smearing around, it makes a pretty good "slickem"

Our rule is if no visible progress--and she is trying, stage 2---we'll give heifers 30 min, cows an hour.

Sometimes a guy feels like a dope--few yrs ago, i had a cow i'd thought several times was gonna calve, over a couple days---but never even saw a water bag----finally decided something was up---somehow the calfs mouth was way open, had tore up cow plum up to where it starts over pelvis, jaw was shattered, calf dead---and i'd never ever really seen her get serious and push. Now, any doubt, and i stick an arm in them---and if i reach in and feet are right there, it's coming out--i've lost far more calves by "give her another 30 min" than i have by intervening and moving on.
 
Faster horses said:
The only time I can remember having a head back, or not where
it was supposed to be was due to high nitrates. That was a lesson
learned.
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If nitrates were to blame it would only be because the calf was premature and therefore not presented right. If the calf was to term then as far as I know nitrates would not be the cause. Dystocia will happen as a matter of course and is not a function of diet, but more likely lack of exercise.
 
No, it was nitrates and it was because of what you mentioned, Silver.
We'd never had that before, but because we fed some high nitrate
hay barley (we'd been feeding it daily, but feeding it after feeding grass
hay) we lost 2. We moved the cows and there was just a little bit of it
in the processor. Mr. FH fed it the next morning, and then went to get more grass hay. It affected 2 cows...they were fairly close to calving, but we lost both calves. The vet showed us how their gums are white from
nitrates, because in essence, the calves smother; therefore it turns
into a malpresentation.

Since then we have not fed high nitrate feed after February, just
to be on the safe side.
 
I agree with Silver, exercise is the main ingredient for malpresentations. Since I have started calving on grass the cows get looked at once a day. In the 2 years I have been doing this if a cow has a tail first or leg back calf she will probably die in the process of calving. Knock on wood but I have yet to go out and find a dead cow. I always had those kind of problems in the calving pen but the excercise they get now must put all those calves in the right position at calving. I can't think of any other difference. Backwards calves don't bother me any more either because they evidently have them on their own.
 
Big Swede said:
I agree with Silver, exercise is the main ingredient for malpresentations. Since I have started calving on grass the cows get looked at once a day. In the 2 years I have been doing this if a cow has a tail first or leg back calf she will probably die in the process of calving. Knock on wood but I have yet to go out and find a dead cow. I always had those kind of problems in the calving pen but the excercise they get now must put all those calves in the right position at calving. I can't think of any other difference. Backwards calves don't bother me any more either because they evidently have them on their own.
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Well said, Big Swede. Exercise not only helps cut down on calf malpresentations. Also agree with Silver. Since I started the later calving and having heifers calving on pasture along with the cows I have seldom had to pull a calf from a heifer due to the calf being "too big". It's been ages since I had to get a C-section. I haven't used the calf puller for a couple years. Maybe I'm doing a better job of picking heifers, and heifer bulls?

A couple weeks ago the guy I bought my last heifer bull from asked me if I still had him and how he turned out. I told him I had never needed to pull one of his calves. With his daughters coming into the herd I've moved him on to servicing mature cows. It's always a bit tense at first to see how the new heifer bull will work out.
 
We calve at home, apr 1. Our cows are ran out till close till then and fed occasionally, depending on weather. More feed the closer they get to calving, and best hay we got is fed pre-calving, as we look at it as protein supplement.

Winter pasture is a couple miles across, terrain , elevation and feed vary and cows travel alot. Last yr 10% calved on range, before we brought them home----this yr cows are 25% done, 5 "official days into it. The black bulls we use seem to have short gestation, the herefords we run on our straight blacks seem to be full term.

I think there's gonna be a certain amount of abnormal presentations no matter what you do, feed, or how you operate. If weather is good, it's the main reason we bring them home--a yr like last yr, we probably saved 5% by having them home, the rest woulda been fine--and seldom any scours when they got lotsa room. 5% death loss due to range calving is unacceptable to us----can't save them all, but can try--
 

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