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A few photos of my favorite young bull.

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BAR BAR 2 said:
I would imagine that if I or someone else from these northern climes were to send one of our fat angus bulls down there, within a month or two it would look like a split rail fence. When we pull'em out after they've been with the girls they look pretty bedraggled. I can only imagine if they had to deal with the heat. There was a reason the longhorns did so well in warmer climates. They were the basis of the cattle industry in the US. Raising cattle in a hot tropical climate is a completely different deal than what most are used to. I sure as heck wouldn't want to do it. How many acres does it take for a pair down there? Your operation is pretty interesting.
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:D

Good points. And this guy has been working the girls hard this month. I commented to one of the hands just yesterday that April of next year will be very busy for us. We've not only had a number of Charolais being serviced by my two herd bulls, but this young fellow has stayed really busy with the criollo ladies.

I'm working with a ranch that's a bit over 930 acres in size though a significant portion of that land is either marginal or not yet producing the way I want it to produce.

In total I've got about 200 cattle (bulls, cows, young-uns) and they're doing well so far though the end of the summer months is always interesting and challenging. Last year we went for months without a drop of rain. This year, my 5 ponds are all almost full to capacity, I've installed an extra 1600 meters of 4" irrigation lines, and we're planting bermuda like crazy.
 
I've got a couple more questions Whitewing. What is your elevation? How do you market your cattle? Do you put up hay, or are you able to graze year round? And lastly, exactly what is a "Criollo", and what do they look like? Are they similar to a corriente?
 
BAR BAR 2 said:
I've got a couple more questions Whitewing. What is your elevation? How do you market your cattle? Do you put up hay, or are you able to graze year round? And lastly, exactly what is a "Criollo", and what do they look like? Are they similar to a corriente?
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The criollo or "country" cattle are indeed like the corriente cattle. They're mixed breed and have probably been here for hundreds of years. There's a lot of brahman influence, of course. They're tough animals that can survive on very marginal grazing land. I'll see if I can find some pics of my criollos. If I don't have some pics I'll get some of the better animals...those that are producing the most milk, often nursing a Charolais calf as well as their own.

I've been crossing them with my Charolais and the results are impressive in that they grow rapidly and generally seem to aquire the best traits of both. I'm thinking of crossing my F1's with a Senepol bull. The senepol is also a Bos taurus breed but was developed on St. Croix, a tropical island.

On average we're about 750 - 1000 feet above sea level. There's a long coastal mountain range that runs most of the length of the country. We're just south of that range. Prevailing winds are from the east and usually blow hard most of the year. Our "winter" is from May/June through December and is really just the wet season. Summer is from January to May and DRY! Temps range from a low of about 60F to a high in the low 90's though it's usually pretty dry when we hit 90F.

This year will be my first year to put up hay and we're doing that right now. In the past we've managed to keep the cattle going through the dry season by using an irrigation system I installed on my largest "laguna" or pond. Last year we almost ran it dry. Right now it's full and I've got an interconnecting line to a small stream nearby that will allow us to keep it full even during the summer.

The few cattle I've sold for meat have gone to the local pueblo for consumption. Cattle for consumption are typically either bought via a price per kilo live weight or "al gancho" which is the carcass weight after slaughter.

I've also sold a number of Charolais bulls to ranchers in the area who'd like to put a bit more beef on their animals. As they see the results I've seen with cross-breeding, more and more folks have been heading my way to buy bulls.
 
I don't know...but to me..your weather sounds nicer than ours. We have average highs in the winter months in the low 60s...but we do get down around freezing a few nights each winter......but our summer temperatures are alot hotter than yours. Goin to 100+ degrees for about 3 months outta the summer every year. If we aren't at or above 100 we are at 98 99 degrees with 70% humidity and above.

We do have years when there's very little rain thru the summer months.

So here's my question....what makes your climate so hard on cattle....verses our climate.? (South East Texas)
 
the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
I don't know...but to me..your weather sounds nicer than ours. We have average highs in the winter months in the low 60s...but we do get down around freezing a few nights each winter......but our summer temperatures are alot hotter than yours. Goin to 100+ degrees for about 3 months outta the summer every year. If we aren't at or above 100 we are at 98 99 degrees with 70% humidity and above.

We do have years when there's very little rain thru the summer months.

So here's my question....what makes your climate so hard on cattle....verses our climate.? (South East Texas)
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I'd have to say the intensity of the sun. We're only 11 degrees north of the equator and though I was born and raised and S. Louisiana, I can attest to the fact that the sun here is scorching. It's drier than SE Texas or S Louisiana, but we have almost no twilight in the morning or evening.

The sun pops up over the horizon and by about 7AM the heat is on....and it stays scorching until it finally sets after 12 hours overhead. The "winter" here is mild and refreshing for me.....some here think it's too cold. :)
 
LOL got me googlin all over the place today. You are correct. Even tho your temperatures aren't as intense as ours.....the suns rays are more direct...so therefore they are more intense....

So basically you'd be more apt to need sunscreen than we are here. Just simply because you are closer to the equator.......
 
Now I know how I am gonna make my fortune!!!!!!!! :D

SUNSCREEN FOR BOVINES!!!

:wink:

Glad your cattle work how you want them too on your part of the world. If the end result is cash money, then you are doing it right. Sure an interesting climate and set of circumstances where you ranch. I enjoy seeing how ya'll do stuff. Thanks!
 
the_jersey_lilly_2000 said:
LOL got me googlin all over the place today. You are correct. Even tho your temperatures aren't as intense as ours.....the suns rays are more direct...so therefore they are more intense....

So basically you'd be more apt to need sunscreen that we do here. Just simply because you are closer to the equator.......
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Indeed. I recall my engineer telling me that when he worked for PDVSA (government-owned oil company) a number of years ago, they had a group from Norway visit to evaluate some oil project south of here. He said that by mid-day those guys were bright red. I imagine they'd never been treated to a day of such lovely sunshine. :lol:
 
Whitewing said:
Thank you BB2. While I don't mind my bull getting hammered here on the forum, I do suspect most posters don't appreciate the impact a tropical climate can have on an animal that otherwise was designed for much more temperate environments.

The summers here (about 6 months in length) are just brutal and I'm amazed that these animals have held up as well as they have.

The quality of the meat, rate of growth, carcass yield, etc have impressed me with these animals. This particular "line" started in the US, was exported to Cuba, and later brought here to Venezuela. I can see that the gene pool is now limited to the point where I'll either need to import semen or start doing some cross-breeding......the latter I'm already doing.
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Whitewing, I like your bull just fine . :D

We raise Charbray (5/8 Charolais, 3/8 Brahma) seed stock in northern Mexico; our summer temperatures are kind of extreme, and depending on the part of the state where they ranch, the ranchers to whom we sell bulls get anywhere from 6"-8" of rain in a dry desert environment, to 25"-30" of rain in a subtropical climate (per year, on average). The temperatures are pretty high in the summers; daytime highs above 40°C (104°F, for the non-metric folks that might be reading) are the norm from mid-May through mid-October, and above 35°C (95°F) well into November, with a lot of 45°C (113°F) -- or better -- days from mid-June through July. These bulls do really well in the hot weather, regardless of the humidity, and produce really stout, fast-gaining babies that yield high carcass weights for our customers (and their customers further down the production chain, either in Mexico or in the U.S.). The cows do just as well when crossed with either Charbray or outcross bulls. The Charolais have a thinner skin than a typical Hereford or Angus, and the cross with the the Brahma yields additional heat resistance and gain efficiency due to the hybrid vigor. So they've been really good to our customers, who have consequently been really good to us.

If you're looking for additional white seed stock, I´d be happy to send some your way from Mexico, if your import regulations allow :wink:

Anyway, it's nice to see another fan of white cattle here; there aren't very many of us :D
 
Thanks for that response and kind offer, Chimenea. Sounds like you've got a heck of an interesting and profitable operation going there.

There had been a ban on the import of cattle from the States into Venezuela though I'm not sure if it's still in effect. I really need to check into that again.

Interesting that you mention the Brahma/Charolais cross too. I bought a group of young bulls a year or two ago. They're all gone now with the exception of a single Brahma bull that I really liked and kept.

Because I'm concerned that my Charolais are on the verge of being gene-bound, I've been crossing my Charolais hefers with this Brahma. The boys at the ranch really like the idea and are anxious to see the results. I am as well and we'll know by about mid April of next year how it's going to work out.
 
Whitewing said:
Thanks for that response and kind offer, Chimenea. Sounds like you've got a heck of an interesting and profitable operation going there.

There had been a ban on the import of cattle from the States into Venezuela though I'm not sure if it's still in effect. I really need to check into that again.

Interesting that you mention the Brahma/Charolais cross too. I bought a group of young bulls a year or two ago. They're all gone now with the exception of a single Brahma bull that I really liked and kept.

Because I'm concerned that my Charolais are on the verge of being gene-bound, I've been crossing my Charolais hefers with this Brahma. The boys at the ranch really like the idea and are anxious to see the results. I am as well and we'll know by about mid April of next year how it's going to work out.
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You're welcome; I´m not sure about the profitable part, but it certainly is fun :D I don't know what Venezuela's import regulations are regarding cattle originating in Mexico, nor do I know how they compare to the regulations that apply to cattle from the U.S.; but if it's a help to you, we might be an interesting option. Either way, I really enjoy learning about the cattle business in Venezuela.

I´m anxious, as well, to see how your F1 (50/50) Charbray cross works out for you. We'll be looking for your pictures come April (and for your carcass weight results after that :D ). It should be a good cross for you, I think. In the late 60's and very early 70's, my grandfather started putting pure Brahma bulls on his native cattle here in Sonora. As subsequent generations of offspring of those bulls started to look more and more "Brahma-ish", they were covered by Charolais, then Brangus bulls (with a couple of Chianina bulls thrown in as an experiment). The Charolais cross on the cows with a heavy Brahma influence was really nice, producing pretty nice stocker steers and really good-producing cows that weaned 275 kg (a little over 600 lb) calves; the cross of the Brangus bulls back on the Charolais x Brahma cows worked really well, too. So you have good reason to be optimistic about the cross of your good Brahma bull on some nice Charolais cows; the boys will be good steers, and the girls will be good mommas for you.
 
If you are looking for Charolais Brahman composites I would be seriously looking at the Brazilian Canchim: http://www.centralbelavista.com.br/touros.php?procurar=canchim (5/8 Charolais 3/8 Zebu) or the Australian Charbray: http://www.charbray.org/. The Australian Charbray swings from 1/4 to 3/4 Charolais in order to fit diverse environments better.
Either one of these composites would work better for you than a purebred Charolais.
Just one question though: Can you AI where you are at?
 
VLS_GUY said:
If you are looking for Charolais Brahman composites I would be seriously looking at the Brazilian Canchim: http://www.centralbelavista.com.br/touros.php?procurar=canchim (5/8 Charolais 3/8 Zebu) or the Australian Charbray: http://www.charbray.org/. The Australian Charbray swings from 1/4 to 3/4 Charolais in order to fit diverse environments better.
Either one of these composites would work better for you than a purebred Charolais.
Just one question though: Can you AI where you are at?
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Thanks for the tips VLS_GUY. I'll check out those links. And yes, while I've not done any AI on my place, the fellow from whom I bought my original Charolais stock is AI'ing at his place.....so it can be done here.
 
I'd like to critique that bull Whitewing but I just can't. Your conditions are night and day to what we have up north..... I mean I'm 1000 miles north of most of Montana :shock: So the type of cattle that work up here are going to be a lot different than in your area.
I'm guessing that under your conditions that bull is just what you need to put more frame and muscle on the local type of cattle. If he's taking your herd in a better direction then keep on keepin' on.
 
Silver said:
I'd like to critique that bull Whitewing but I just can't. Your conditions are night and day to what we have up north..... I mean I'm 1000 miles north of most of Montana :shock: So the type of cattle that work up here are going to be a lot different than in your area.
I'm guessing that under your conditions that bull is just what you need to put more frame and muscle on the local type of cattle. If he's taking your herd in a better direction then keep on keepin' on.
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I need to snap some pics of my original herd bull (his dad) to give you guys an idea of how he compares. I'd say his sire is a much more typical-looking Charolais. And yes, he's got the huge neck that some of the posters seem to feel is important. From what I've seen of other young bulls I've produced and the sold over the last few years, they seem to undergo major body/frame changes between years 2 and 3. I don't know if that has to do with this particular line of cattle, with environmental conditions, or possibly even diet. These animals here are almost 100% grass-fed because grains are expensive to produce or buy.

There are a number of features of this bull that I like. I like his height which seems to be perfect for my criollo cattle. I also like the fact that he's more slick-haired than his dad. We pasture the bulls next to a small river below the corrals. It's about a 90 foot drop down to that pasture and the trail is really steep. Even though this guy has consistently been one of my "fattest-looking" bulls, he always seems to return to the corrals in good shape...ie, not panting like the other bulls his same age. I don't know if that's a function of his low center of gravity or his slick hair, but he seems to make it up and down the hills better than the other animals.

And finally, I like his frame. He's much more 'square' than any of the other bulls I've produced. As I mentioned earlier, his rear end is shaped like a box car and I like that look.

As Silver mentioned above, I think he'll put more frame and muscle on the animals produced with my criollo cattle. Time will tell.

Thanks for the comments everyone.
 

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