I'm just wonder Do you think if Canadian Feeder cattle were allowed back into the U.S. they should only do so if they are sent into a feedlot and then on to slaughter or should they beable to be fed on ranches then taken to slaughter?
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A question for some of you R-CALFers
- Thread starter Tam
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Sandhusker
Well-known member
I think we should follow Canada's example. Canada has closed their borders to 20 some countries because of BSE. How is Canada treating cattle and beef from those countries?
Sandhusker said:I think we should follow Canada's example. Canada has closed their borders to 20 some countries because of BSE. How is Canada treating cattle and beef from those countries?
As has been mentioned previously, the BSE regulations in North America were established as a result of consultations between US and Canadian industry groups and governements. If Canada had it's borders open to product from the countries you refer to the US would have not allowed Canadian product in. Most of those countries have also not had a feed ban in place as long as Canada and the US.
I guess you could say that Canada is also following the US example.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
I'd have to say England has done much more than Canada or the US in combating BSE. How does Canada treat their product?
reader (the Second) said:Bill said:Sandhusker said:I think we should follow Canada's example. Canada has closed their borders to 20 some countries because of BSE. How is Canada treating cattle and beef from those countries?
As has been mentioned previously, the BSE regulations in North America were established as a result of consultations between US and Canadian industry groups and governements. If Canada had it's borders open to product from the countries you refer to the US would have not allowed Canadian product in. Most of those countries have also not had a feed ban in place as long as Canada and the US.
I guess you could say that Canada is also following the US example.
Is this really true about the feed ban? European countries have had a feed ban for longer than Canada and U.S. and it is more "total" in the sense that ruminant feed is disallowed in ANY animal feed.
EU bans Feeding Animals to Animals in wake of Mad Cow Crisis
New York Times, Tuesday, December 5, 2000
Tokyo Japan announced their feed ban on September 18 2001. following the discovery a suspected outbreak of Mad Cow.
But the US and Canada announced their proactive feed bans in Aug 1997
Sandhusker said:I'd have to say England has done much more than Canada or the US in combating BSE. How does Canada treat their product?
Canada treats them the same way the US has for over the past 15 or so years .
Sandhusker All I asked was do you think if they were admitted to the US should they go to feedlots or be allowed to comingle on ranches until slaughter? It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing what do you think the US should do? I want your opinion
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Tam said:Sandhusker All I asked was do you think if they were admitted to the US should they go to feedlots or be allowed to comingle on ranches until slaughter? It doesn't matter what anyone else is doing what do you think the US should do? I want your opinion
Tam, my honest opinion; I don't think there is been enough information presented in a STRAIGHT MANNER to make that call today. What needs to be done before that decision can be made is for the USDA to back up and start again - this time instead of trying to ram-rod and sneak changes in policy, they need to stay the course with the HEALTH POLICY they established years ago and justify why it needs to be changed now. If they can explain why it is beneficial for us to amend a policy that has been a good one, then we can move on to the details of how to handle cattle - not just Canadian but everybody in the same risk class as Canada.
My biggest complaint with this whole deal is that the USDA is tampering with a health policy for economic reasons - and that is unacceptable.
I know this isn't the type of answer you were looking for, but I honestly think things need to go thru the progressions, and jumping to how to handle Canadian cattle before it has been shown WHY we should is premature.
I don't know about up there, but is is an absolutley perfect day here. If we weren't short-handed today, I would go on an "inspection".
Tell me Sandhusker if you can why When the USDA wants to hold these animals in feedlots and not let them comingle with the US herd like I think is the rule in Canada and take a chance that some will not be slaughter before 30 months does R-CALF have a problem?
Quote from R-CALF
Once these cattle enter do they not want the USDA to be 100% sure of where they are? First they don't even want them in US but if they are allowed in they think it is discrimination if they are not allowed to be fed on any ranch in the US. Just how much more man power will it take to check every ranch that may import compared to the feedlots that may get the right to import. And if some of these cattle don't get slaughtered before they are 30 months because of some rancher, who will R-CALF blame, the USDA for allowing just anyone and everyone to import cattle from Canada? :roll:
Is this not what the the Japanese government is doing to keep from being threatened with trade sanction by the US. Why is it acceptable for the Japanese to do it so you can trade with them but it is UNACCEPTABLE for the USDA to do it to trade with Canada.
The USDA has said many times that if the US wants to trade with Japan or any other country they have to treat Canada like they expect the Japanese to treat them and you and your **** leaders just can't grasp that concept can you.
Quote from R-CALF
Thus the benefits of cheaper Canadian cattle will go excluively to those who own feedlots or feed cattle in feedlots, and to the packers Given that all live cattle entering the U.S. from Canada will be branded and tagged, there is no apparent reason why feeding such cattle would increase the risks presented by the Final Rule USDA's discrimination against producers who are not feedlot owners and do not feed cattle in feedlots, without sufficient explanation renders the Final Rule arbitrary, Capricious and abuse of discretion and unsupported by the administrative record.
Once these cattle enter do they not want the USDA to be 100% sure of where they are? First they don't even want them in US but if they are allowed in they think it is discrimination if they are not allowed to be fed on any ranch in the US. Just how much more man power will it take to check every ranch that may import compared to the feedlots that may get the right to import. And if some of these cattle don't get slaughtered before they are 30 months because of some rancher, who will R-CALF blame, the USDA for allowing just anyone and everyone to import cattle from Canada? :roll:
Does this go for those the US wants to export to? Because remember in everyone eyes but R-CALF members the US is in the same risk class as Canada?not just Canadian but everybody in the same risk class as Canada.
My biggest complaint with this whole deal is that the USDA is tampering with a health policy for economic reasons - and that is unacceptable.
Is this not what the the Japanese government is doing to keep from being threatened with trade sanction by the US. Why is it acceptable for the Japanese to do it so you can trade with them but it is UNACCEPTABLE for the USDA to do it to trade with Canada.
The USDA has said many times that if the US wants to trade with Japan or any other country they have to treat Canada like they expect the Japanese to treat them and you and your **** leaders just can't grasp that concept can you.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Tam, "Once these cattle enter ...."
I couldn't understand the quote you put up - its awfully choppy. I'd like to see more of it so I can get the whole context.
Tam, "Does this go for those the US wants to export to? Because remember in everyone eyes but R-CALF members the US is in the same risk class as Canada? "
The US is NOT in the same risk class as Canada in everyone's eyes. I've posted proof of that more than once, and Rancher has as well. What leads you to believe that?
Tam, "Is this not what the the Japanese government is doing to keep from being threatened with trade sanction by the US. Why is it acceptable for the Japanese to do it so you can trade with them but it is UNACCEPTABLE for the USDA to do it to trade with Canada."
I think the USDA is totally out of line making those demands of the Japanese and the way the way they have handled that situation from start to finish is deplorable. I don't think either county should lower health standards in the name of "trade".
Tam, "The USDA has said many times that if the US wants to trade with Japan or any other country they have to treat Canada like they expect the Japanese to treat them and you and your **** leaders just can't grasp that concept"
They can't grasp that concept because that the concept is a line of BS. Why not test that theory by comparing how long we've been taking your boxed beef with how long Japan has been taking ours? How does that theory hold up in real life?
I couldn't understand the quote you put up - its awfully choppy. I'd like to see more of it so I can get the whole context.
Tam, "Does this go for those the US wants to export to? Because remember in everyone eyes but R-CALF members the US is in the same risk class as Canada? "
The US is NOT in the same risk class as Canada in everyone's eyes. I've posted proof of that more than once, and Rancher has as well. What leads you to believe that?
Tam, "Is this not what the the Japanese government is doing to keep from being threatened with trade sanction by the US. Why is it acceptable for the Japanese to do it so you can trade with them but it is UNACCEPTABLE for the USDA to do it to trade with Canada."
I think the USDA is totally out of line making those demands of the Japanese and the way the way they have handled that situation from start to finish is deplorable. I don't think either county should lower health standards in the name of "trade".
Tam, "The USDA has said many times that if the US wants to trade with Japan or any other country they have to treat Canada like they expect the Japanese to treat them and you and your **** leaders just can't grasp that concept"
They can't grasp that concept because that the concept is a line of BS. Why not test that theory by comparing how long we've been taking your boxed beef with how long Japan has been taking ours? How does that theory hold up in real life?
All this proves Sandhusker is you trust the Canadian food system that didn't have a BSE case recalled from it. And by not taking the same aged cattle that puts into question whether you trust your food system that did have a BSE case recalled from it. And if you don't trust your system to process our cattle into safe beef then why should other countries trust it to process yours.They can't grasp that concept because that the concept is a line of BS. Why not test that theory by comparing how long we've been taking your boxed beef with how long Japan has been taking ours? How does that theory hold up in real life?
I think the USDA is totally out of line making those demands of the Japanese and the way the way they have handled that situation from start to finish is deplorable. I don't think either county should lower health standards in the name of "trade".
It is not the USDA that is threatening trade sanctions on Japan Sandhusker it is the same Congress that voted to stop the Final Rule. Which I find really dumb as they voted to keep the borders of a minimal risk country closed but are threatening trade sanctions because Japan won't open their borders to a minimal risk country.
And about the quote why don't you go read the briefing yourself it is on R-CALF USA web site and see what it says as you won't believe anything we post about R-CALF anyway. and as for it being choppy blame R-CALF lawyers I only quoted them.
What leads me to believe that?
According to the OIE you are the same as they said you could not consider the Washington cow as an imported cases as she wasn't in isolation of the whole North American beef production system . They recommended the same precautionary measures to you as they did to us, aggressive surveillance of the 4D cattle, stronger feed bans and SRM removal. to mention a few. They also recommended that all involved in the North American beef industry work TOGETHER to clean up the North American BSE problem. I also believe this because the Japanese and others have told both the US and Canada they see us as the same risk.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Tam, "According to the OIE you are the same as they said you could not consider the Washington cow as an imported cases as she wasn't in isolation of the whole North American beef production system . They recommended the same precautionary measures to you as they did to us, aggressive surveillance of the 4D cattle, stronger feed bans and SRM removal. to mention a few. They also recommended that all involved in the North American beef industry work TOGETHER to clean up the North American BSE problem. I also believe this because the Japanese and others have told both the US and Canada they see us as the same risk."
Once again, real life examples put this theory on it's ear. If the US and Canada are seen as the same risk, why didn't countries close their borders to us at the same time they closed them to you? Why is one of the condidtions of Taiwan accepting our beef again that we send them only US sourced product, and none from Canada?
The OIE's ruling shows that "Provisionally Free" is a category that will never be used as their standards of proof are virtually impossible to meet in the real world. Common sense tells one otherwise.
Once again, real life examples put this theory on it's ear. If the US and Canada are seen as the same risk, why didn't countries close their borders to us at the same time they closed them to you? Why is one of the condidtions of Taiwan accepting our beef again that we send them only US sourced product, and none from Canada?
The OIE's ruling shows that "Provisionally Free" is a category that will never be used as their standards of proof are virtually impossible to meet in the real world. Common sense tells one otherwise.
PORKER
Well-known member
While this is just a start on selling source verified EID cattle at this market, the hand writing is on the wall.
The OIE's ruling shows that "Provisionally Free" is a category that will never be used as their standards of proof are virtually impossible to meet in the real world. Common sense tells one otherwise as www.Scoringag.com has done that a long time ago for OIE in every country in the world.
The OIE's ruling shows that "Provisionally Free" is a category that will never be used as their standards of proof are virtually impossible to meet in the real world. Common sense tells one otherwise as www.Scoringag.com has done that a long time ago for OIE in every country in the world.
Sandhusker said:The OIE's ruling shows that "Provisionally Free" is a category that will never be used as their standards of proof are virtually impossible to meet in the real world. Common sense tells one otherwise.
Taken from the OIE web page
List of countries recognised as provisionally free from BSE
Argentina
Iceland
Singapore
Uruguay
How can you say it will never be used or are you saying it will never be used on the US because the standards of proof are virually impossible to be met by the US.
And I thought Hong Kong was taking Canadian beef but aren't taking US so does that mean they think the US is a higher risk than Canada? I thought the statement said that Taiwan will accept beef from the US containing imported meat as long as they are accepting beef from that same country. Taiwan is working with Canada and are very close to a lifting the ban so what does that tell you?
Sandhusker
Well-known member
Tam, "Taken from the OIE web page List of countries recognised as provisionally free from BSE..." How can you say it will never be used or are you saying it will never be used on the US because the standards of proof are virually impossible to be met by the US."
Yep, you caught me being vague. I would say the last part of your statement accurately reflects my intended message.
Tam, "And I thought Hong Kong was taking Canadian beef but aren't taking US so does that mean they think the US is a higher risk than Canada?"
If you believe Hong Kong is taking Canadian but not US beef, why do you still claim that the world views us the same? Both can't be true.
Tam, "I thought the statement said that Taiwan will accept beef from the US containing imported meat as long as they are accepting beef from that same country."
I can't say if that is wrong or right as that is the first time I've heard that. However, I'm a bit leery of that statement as we are currently accepting meat from Canada, but as I understand it, Taiwan doesn't want yours in the mix.
Tam, "Taiwan is working with Canada and are very close to a lifting the ban so what does that tell you?"
It doesn't tell me much, Tam! :lol: We've been told the US and Japan have been close for months now and that has turned out to be misinformation!
Yep, you caught me being vague. I would say the last part of your statement accurately reflects my intended message.
Tam, "And I thought Hong Kong was taking Canadian beef but aren't taking US so does that mean they think the US is a higher risk than Canada?"
If you believe Hong Kong is taking Canadian but not US beef, why do you still claim that the world views us the same? Both can't be true.
Tam, "I thought the statement said that Taiwan will accept beef from the US containing imported meat as long as they are accepting beef from that same country."
I can't say if that is wrong or right as that is the first time I've heard that. However, I'm a bit leery of that statement as we are currently accepting meat from Canada, but as I understand it, Taiwan doesn't want yours in the mix.
Tam, "Taiwan is working with Canada and are very close to a lifting the ban so what does that tell you?"
It doesn't tell me much, Tam! :lol: We've been told the US and Japan have been close for months now and that has turned out to be misinformation!
TXTibbs
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LOL @ the Tample Grandin thing.......I don't know this "TAM", but to be called "Tam"ple Grandin is sure a blow!!!!
reader (the Second) said:Sandhusker said:Tam, "Taiwan is working with Canada and are very close to a lifting the ban so what does that tell you?"
It doesn't tell me much, Tam! :lol: We've been told the US and Japan have been close for months now and that has turned out to be misinformation!
Right, and Japan or Taiwan allowing in imports may have as much to do with politics and diplomacy (and economics) as it has to do with OIE and what the consumer wants.
That Taiwan is looking at Canada tells me that they don't honestly think Canadian beef is unsafe or they wouldn't even consider looking and yes you are finally right Reader it is political and diplomacy and economics that are ruling BSE NOT FOOD SAFETY.
Maple Leaf Angus
Well-known member
TXTibbs said:LOL @ the Tample Grandin thing.......I don't know this "TAM", but to be called "Tam"ple Grandin is sure a blow!!!!
I think nebrusker/blackpower/hat/taint is the only person in the world who is getting younger. Every time he resurrects on this board, he acts and speaks more childishly than in his previous short, miserable life.
He and those who find him amusing can be classified as simple minds who respond to intelligent discussion with derogatory and juvenile remarks and namecalling. Judging by the level he is resorting to now would tell us that he has just moved from junior high to middle school, or whatever would be the reverse of the usual progression in the U.S. of A. :roll:
Go Tam.
Sandhusker
Well-known member
He must be a graduate of the SH School of Debate :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
