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A tale of bull to cow ratio and the results

F

Faster horses

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Joined
Feb 11, 2005
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Location
NE WY at the foot of the Big Horn mountains
This subject has been discussed here from time to time. I am going to post the results of breeding 150
replacement heifers to 4 yearling bulls. I thought the results were interesting and hope you do too.

Early summer of 2014 the bulls were turned into the heifers to breed for 30 days.

The results: 12 opens out of 150!! Again, they gave the heifers 30 days to breed.
The heifers were only fed hay and mineral the winter of 2013-2014.
Ran strictly on grass and mineral the rest of the year til time to feed again in the late fall.

The owners, who are really good cowpeople, took the chance because they were short on bulls and didn't need 150 heifers....worked out well!
Tells me we had been using too many bulls all those years........ :D
 
I am curious as to how old the yearling bulls were at turnout time? Even more curious as to what they might have weighed at turnout time?
 
Something tells me they weren't wandering a 1500 acre forested grazing lease :)
 
Wow! Pushin the envelope on a few things there, and bravo to them for being able to take those chances. I had to break a few rules last year managing my yearling heifers. I got away with it. But, I gotta keep reminding myself, it's just like blastin over the speed limit going into town. Been doing it for years. Someday I'm gonna get caught!
Impressive numbers................................ :clap:
 
WB said:
I am curious as to how old the yearling bulls were at turnout time? Even more curious as to what they might have weighed at turnout time?
Click to expand...


I don't know but will find out. He runs in some big SE Montana pastures. I'll find out the water sources
as well. He calves about March 20, so these heifers that are calving now, are barely a year old.
He does have a very fertile bunch of cows.
 
Faster horses said:
WB said:
I am curious as to how old the yearling bulls were at turnout time? Even more curious as to what they might have weighed at turnout time?
Click to expand...


I don't know but will find out. He runs in some big SE Montana pastures. I'll find out the water sources
as well. He calves about March 20, so these heifers that are calving now, are barely a year old.
He does have a very fertile bunch of cows.
Click to expand...
So they are purposely bred to calve @ 12 months? Surely not....
 
4Diamond said:
Faster horses said:
WB said:
I am curious as to how old the yearling bulls were at turnout time? Even more curious as to what they might have weighed at turnout time?
Click to expand...


I don't know but will find out. He runs in some big SE Montana pastures. I'll find out the water sources
as well. He calves about March 20, so these heifers that are calving now, are barely a year old.
He does have a very fertile bunch of cows.
Click to expand...
So they are purposely bred to calve @ 12 months? Surely not....
Click to expand...

I would bet barely 2 years of age typo..
 
4Diamond said:
Faster horses said:
WB said:
I am curious as to how old the yearling bulls were at turnout time? Even more curious as to what they might have weighed at turnout time?
Click to expand...


I don't know but will find out. He runs in some big SE Montana pastures. I'll find out the water sources
as well. He calves about March 20, so these heifers that are calving now, are barely a year old.
He does have a very fertile bunch of cows.
Click to expand...
So they are purposely bred to calve @ 12 months? Surely not....
Click to expand...

OOPS!! They are barely 24 months old. Sorry about the error. :oops:
 
How about genetics? I've observed a wide range in libido in my bull battery. The last two summers were my first experience with Shoshone bulls, and I was blown away by their drive. I can believe numbers like FH referenced with bulls like that. Other bulls I own, not so much.

I thought I was doing good with 97/111 bred in 45 days with 5 scrubby home-raised yearling bulls! Sure put me in my place!
 
Years ago, Dad bought a yearling bull that was 3/4 Kickinena and 1/4 Angus. He sorted out his best 200 Angus cows and put this bull out with them for two weeks before turning out several other Hereford bulls. That way he would know for sure by the color of the calf which calves were out of the new bull. The next spring there were 65 calves sired by the new yearling bull. One of the offspring of that bull, as a herd sire himself, eventually ran over the top of dear old Dad, breaking his leg in three places. I suppose any benefit from the bull's libido was more than offset by hospital bills, but I digress.
 
LCP said:
How about genetics? I've observed a wide range in libido in my bull battery. The last two summers were my first experience with Shoshone bulls, and I was blown away by their drive. I can believe numbers like FH referenced with bulls like that. Other bulls I own, not so much.

I thought I was doing good with 97/111 bred in 45 days with 5 scrubby home-raised yearling bulls! Sure put me in my place!
Click to expand...


I didn't make that post to put anyone in their place. Not my intention at all. I just felt foolish about the
amount of bulls we ran per cow compared to what they get done.
They get 87- 90% born in the first heat cycle every year--and I know this for fact because we
help them work their cattle, brand, etc. He does talk to me at times about what Angus bulls to use.....right now he is having to pull some calves and he isn't liking that. (He bought those heifer bulls on his own. :D :wink: :?)

Their cows aren't pampered, but they are fed adequately.
They supplement with a few pounds of alfalfa hay in the winter while the cows are still out grazing and then
feeds strictly hay they raise the rest of the feeding season. There are many other producers around here who do that same program successfully.

On the age of the yearling bulls: 2/28; 3/6; 3/6; 3/9; 3/12. I guess there were 5 yearling bulls, not 4.OOPS. :oops:
Turnout date was June 10th.
The bulls 205 day weights were about 675#. They don't know what they weighed at turnout, but were average
size. The bull breeder brought them to their place in the spring and they were turned out on grass before they were put with the 150 heifers.

They did use Shoshone bulls for a few years and got them from Larry Leonhardt, so the herd does have some Shoshone influence. They also have a little black Simmental influence from using a bull (AI) called TC Wally. They then kept the sons for use in their own herd but you certainly can't tell that from looking. Cows are moderate sized--1200-1300#.
 
Soapweed said:
Years ago, Dad bought a yearling bull that was 3/4 Kickinena and 1/4 Angus. He sorted out his best 200 Angus cows and put this bull out with them for two weeks before turning out several other Hereford bulls. That way he would know for sure by the color of the calf which calves were out of the new bull. The next spring there were 65 calves sired by the new yearling bull. One of the offspring of that bull, as a herd sire himself, eventually ran over the top of dear old Dad, breaking his leg in three places. I suppose any benefit from the bull's libido was more than offset by hospital bills, but I digress.
Click to expand...

OUCH! We had a little experience with the Kickinena ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ) but the bull kept jumping out of the corral so he went to town before we had the pleasure of using him. Good thing.
 
FH - no worries, I wasn't offended in the least. I'm glad you started the thread, because IMO libido is hands-down the most economically relevant trait. How often do we hear about how reproductive efficiency is SO IMPORTANT to the cow - if she ain't bred, it doesn't matter. But the industry turns a blind eye to low-libido bulls - as well as high-libido bulls. Makes no sense to me. There is not a trait that can add economic value to a bull faster than libido - or lower the value of a bull faster than not having any. When I see yearling bulls bringing $30,000+ in these bull sales, it makes me cringe because I know that bull is going to be collected and propagated long before he will be able to prove himself in natural service, if he ever really does. It's the unintended consequence of AI. Low-libido bulls that excel at other traits are propagated and their sons are sold to commercial guys like myself, only to have them go lay in the corner of the pasture. It's happened to me. But I'm not bitter, as you can tell... :)
 
Dr. Kerry Rood at Utah State University is in the middle of a study right now that deals with bull libido. The preliminary work indicates that 20% of the bulls will breed 80% of the cows. They are looking for ranches to partner with using DNA tests to determine parentage. It could be a complete game changer if they can find indicators on which bulls will be more active.
 
Last year I turned out 18 bulls with 530 cows. Majority of the bulls where yearling and 18 month old bulls with the balance being 3-3/12 year olds and one older bull turned out July 10 for 60 days when we preg checked this fall I had 5 opens one was a sewed up job and one was a leg dragger. IMHO all this 1:20-25 business sounds like a good way to get bulls hurt. If they are breeding they aren't fighting.
 

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