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Across Breed EPD's

D

DejaVu

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Joined
Apr 3, 2009
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Kansas
If you are using a Hereford bull on Angus cows and the across breed EPD for milk on a hereford is -17.5, do you subtract -17.5 from the Angus milk average? This Hereford bull is a +18 on milk. Do you subtract -17.5 from his milk EPD to give you an Angus milk EPD? Would you be afraid of his daughters milking ability? I'm not very familiar with Hereford EPD's to know what is average, below average or above. If this makes no sense I apologize. We've had lots of company and my fall cows are calving. I'm sure tired. My son is using this Hereford bull and I was wondering about the milk EPD difference between breeds and if he should be watching for a milk problem in the bulls daughters.
 
IMO EPD's were created solely for within breed comparisons & across breed EPD's are virtually useless. Your hereford bull with a +18 MM is right at or slightly above the Hereford breed average......enough milk for most ranch conditions. I would much rather have a decent milking cow with a good udder that can rebreed year in and out than go for extreme levels of milk!
I take it that your calves are baldies......they'll make great cows!!
 
IMHO - I would chuck the EPDs in the garbage can and try the bull and see what you get. What kind of milking line was the bulls dam from? In any case wouldn't the fact that you are crossing a Hereford and an Angus contribute quite a bit of hybrid vigor which would surely make it a little more complicated and unpredictable than taking a Hereford milk value from an Angus milk value?
 
If you are using the USDA MARC Adjustment factors you take the appropriate factor for each breed (in this case Hereford) and add/subtract it from the EPD for the animal of that breed. That puts the animal onto an Angus equivalent base.
The most current adjustments are here
http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Place/54380000/GPE/AB_EPD2009News.pdf
In this case you take the HE milk of 18 and subtract 17.5 giving an AN equivalent milk EPD of 0.5.
For maternal crosses EPD should be convergent (similar), for terminal crosses they should be divergent (different) - although for a terminal cross milk doesn't really matter.
Contrary to much popular opinion I believe EPD will work if you have a goal in mind (rather than a maximum) and put some focus on type and balance as well.
 
Well just from experience a plus 18 Hereford bull is on the verge of maybe being too milky while a plus one Angus might be a on the verge of being a bit dry. We've used a few Angus bulls under breed average for milk with no trouble but not sure if i'f I'd go that low. I don't put any stock at all in acrosss breed e.p.d's what so ever-if the angus breed average is plus 20 it would take a Hereford that is plus 38 to equal an average Angus does such a beast exist even. It would be interesting to fund two outfits-one coulkd select totally by the numbers and one could use sme common sense-see whose where in twenty years.
 
I know EPD's are a "best guess". I try to use them as a caution. Any extreme in either direction is a flag. RSL, you answered my question because a .5 is what I thought the milk EPD might be. My son asked the question and I cautioned him to watch the milking qualities of this bull's daughters. We've all had our share of wrecks and try to help our kids avoid them if possible. :wink: This hereford bull is an HH Advance 235M grandson out of L1 Dominet 3030. All Line 1 breeding if I'm not mistaken. Probably should leave it at that!
 
It's comparing apples to oranges an engaging mental exercise but really meaningless in the real world of cattle breeding-unless your shipping cream I wouldn't be worried about a plus 18 Hereford bull. I'd judge a bull of any breed on how he compares to contemporaries within his own breed.
 
Yes I do or should I say Genex does-I'd be more than happy to sell you some-baby needs new shoes lol. if the Genex rep gives you any grief just contact me personally and I'll make sure I find one down there that can fill a semen order-there seems to be some incapable of marketing anything that isn't Angus.
 

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