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Agriculture Shouldn't Come at a Cost

Liberty Belle

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,818
Location
northwestern South Dakota
Our old buddy Tony Dean is at it again. He would just as soon abolish private property and turn the west into one big hunting and fishing preserve... with him in charge!!

How long do you think it is going to take before the Argus Leader quits printing his loony lies?

Agriculture shouldn't come at a cost
Tony Dean • For the Argus Leader • March 5, 2008


If all of the anti-hunting groups focused their efforts on the Dakotas, they couldn't do as much to hurt hunting and fishing here as our so-called political leaders have been able to do during the past few decades.

They have never said no to "industrial agriculture," a term coined by Iowa writer Verlyn Klinkenberg.

State legislators took the latest step toward diminishing water and habitat qualities when they passed a resolution telling Congress that South Dakota isn't interested in water quality or protecting wetlands.

This is not the first such effort in the Dakotas, a pair of states rich with wetland resources, but where few elected or appointed officials show evidence of having a land ethic.

In North Dakota, the federal government no longer even tries to purchase wetlands because of a legislative ruling some years ago that requires special permission to do so. But that's a moot point, because it is almost never granted.

And North Dakota has managed to extend that thinking to private land purchases by citizens with a desire to do something for wildlife.

This nonsense happens because agriculture is the occupational demographic that overshadows all others in our state legislatures.

As a result, we have become so vigilant in protecting what is believed to be our number one industry, we pass up opportunities to make our states better places to live.

Some in agriculture fail to see the connection between wetland drainage and increased flooding. They forget they also represent many who live here because of the abundant natural resources or those who live in flood prone areas, and each time a major flood occurs, all American taxpayers dig into their collective pockets to pay for the damages.

Even Devils Lake, that remarkable North Dakota fishery that has nearly inundated the community that resides on its shoreline, is a direct result of unwise wetland drainage, as was its South Dakota counterpart, Lake Thompson.

If you wonder where all the water in the Red River each spring originates, simply drive north on I-29 toward Fargo and view mile after mile of tile-drained fields along the Interstate highway.

All of the water that was on the land now flows into the Red, en route to someone's basement. Now, travel farther south on I-29 into South Dakota and you'll discover many new tile drain projects that promise to do for the Big Sioux what they'd done with the Red River of the north.

Why do we allow such nonsense? I suspect it is because elected officials never question agriculture, which, indeed, is the number one industry in the Dakotas.

But would it be without the huge amount of taxpayer dollars that support it? Ironically, many who farm or ranch decry the intrusive federal government unless they can milk it for subsidies or cheap grazing.

Today's agriculture has become far different from the yeoman farms envisioned by Thomas Jefferson. As as it gluttonizes our environment, it robs from the children who will inherit this landscape when we're gone.

Doubtless, these words will generate some anger, as well as pertinent questions - as well they should.

For most of our lives we have been subservient to agriculture, and today, it threatens the quality of life and the water we drink on the Dakota prairie.


Tony Dean, an outdoor writer and broadcaster, writes a column every Wednesday for the Argus Leader.

3-06-08
http://www.tonydean.com/issues2.html?sectionid=9629
 
I agree with some of what he says. You cant argue that drain tiling will result in more flooding. Ask Grand Forks ND. You cant argue that sloughs serve a purpose, and not just take up space that could be used for grazing or crop production. There is some area that should never be put in to production.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
I agree with some of what he says. You cant argue that drain tiling will result in more flooding. Ask Grand Forks ND. You cant argue that sloughs serve a purpose, and not just take up space that could be used for grazing or crop production. There is some area that should never be put in to production.
SDH, somehow I'm not surprised that you agree with Dean. It doesn't bother you that Dean is talking about restricting what landowners can do with land they own and pay taxes on? Do you have a problem with landowners making a profit from the best use of their land or do you take Dean's view that all land should be controled by the government to provide better hunting and fishing for you and your pals?

You've said that you own land. If that's true, there is nothing to stop you from signing the rights to that land over to the federal government right now, especially if you think they will make smarter, more profitable decisions about land use than you can.

Don't expect them to pay your taxes though – they just want to tell you what you can do with your land while you keep digging deep in your pocket to pay the government's bills.
 
Here's another article from Tony Dean for you. Dean is not going to be happy unless the federal government gets control of every privately owned pothole, mudhole, and hard-pan spot in the nation. And this is the nut that sportmen let do their talking for them? If I was into hunting and fishing, I would be doing everything in my power to separate myself from socialists like this that are doing untold damage to the relations between sportsmen and landowners.

Protect All US Water

Half of the waters in the United States are at risk of pollution or destructive development because of a wrongheaded Supreme Court decision in 2006. The decision narrowed the scope of the Clean Water Act, weakened the law's safeguards and thoroughly confused the federal agencies responsible for enforcing it.

Congress should approve the Clean Water Restoration Act. The bill would reaffirm the broad federal protections that Congress intended when it passed the law in 1972.

The 2006 ruling involved a Michigan landowner who had been barred from developing wetlands that had no visible connection to other bodies of water. Pouncing on minor ambiguities, four conservative justices ruled that the Clean Water Act protected only navigable, permanent or continuous flowing waters and adjacent wetlands. Four liberal justices, reflecting the traditional view of the law, said it protected all waters, including isolated wetlands and small, intermittent streams.

Splitting the difference, Justice Anthony Kennedy ruled that remote wetlands and isolated streams deserved protection only if regulators could show a "significant nexus" — a physical or biological connection — to a navigable body of water somewhere downstream. Justice Kennedy's test has effectively become the law of the land, with unfortunate results.

In one celebrated case in Alabama, a company that knowingly polluted an otherwise pristine creek was let off the hook because, the court ruled, no "significant nexus" between the stream and a navigable river downstream had been established. Other industries have used the Kennedy opinion as a legal shield, claiming that they are only polluting isolated waters.

Meanwhile, harried regulators at the Environmental Protection Agency and the Army Corps of Engineers are mired in laborious and expensive (and in some cases speculative) efforts to determine whether a water body is "significantly" connected to a navigable one downstream and therefore protected by law.

Congress could cut through all this by removing any ambiguities and restoring the law's original scope to include all the waters of the United States — large or small, permanent or seasonal, navigable or not. That would restore order to an increasingly chaotic and ineffective regulatory system while protecting the physical and biological integrity of America's waters.


http://www.tonydean.com/issues2.html?sectionid=9633
 
I don't want to get into the middle of a SD fight .

LB it;s not what farmers do on their own land it's that they drain their land onto others with some of these drainage projects. compounding what the next guy faces. Us ranchers in Southern Sask. and western South Dakota don't realize the volumes of water drained in some places.
 
People in Manitoba sure do!

South of Winnipeg, in the Red River Valley, every farmyard and town is circled by a dike to handle the water sent north every year. My son used to live right next to one, and I worried every spring about that holding. Even Winnipeg has a floodway. It's a massive diversion that takes extra water around Winnipeg and puts it back in the Red River on the north side of the city. You can see the thing from space, and right now they are working on it to make it bigger. During the flood of 97 it almost wasn't big enough to handle the water. This is the same water that made a terrible mess of Fargo, Grand Forks, and lots of other places in North Dakota.

Floods are annual affairs here, and to top it off, Devil's Lake has a drain into the watershed, even though it contravenes the International Water Treaty, but that's another story. :roll: :roll:

Why on earth would this guy think the government should buy the land? There are other ways besides government buying land, to help stop exessive draining. Incentives to protect natural wetlands are one. Requiring a permit to drain is another.
 
Ninety seven percent of the farmers and ranchers are like you and I. We are the stewards of the land. We are going to take care of the land as if we don't we are biting the hand that feeds us. Farmers and ranchers are less than ONE percent of the population. When the bigmouths and polititians are starving then they will reconize us. Mean time we keep plugging along as usual, taking care of our animals and feeding the world.
 
LB, show us where Dean has EVER said anything about the gov owning all the lands and contrlling it. NEVER

Do you not agree that some lands should never be put in production?

Do you not agree there will be more downstream flooding the more land is drained? Do you not agree sloughs and potholes create clean water for you and i? Do you not agree that the potholes have a purpose, such as holding some water back when flooding is occuring?

Ask the people of Grand Forks their feelings of drain tile.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
LB, show us where Dean has EVER said anything about the gov owning all the lands and contrlling it. NEVER
Who said Dean wanted the government to own all land, especially any land Dean might own? I didn't. Although Dean certainly is in favor of government buying land to use exclusively for hunting and fishing. Deny that only if you can show us facts to back it up.

Southdakotahunter said:
Do you not agree that some lands should never be put in production?
What Dean wants to do is have federal and state governments control what agriculture producers can do on land they own. Guess that doesn't bother you at all?

Are you really Tony Dean posting anonymously as some of my friends have suggested? You sure sound like him....


Southdakotahunter said:
Do you not agree that some lands should never be put in production?
I'm sure this will surprise you, but I do agree. I don't agree that it should be the government's decision. That decision should be sorely the landowner's and no, I don't think that the federal government should pay subsidies to folks farming land that should never have been broken up. Take that up with your legislators in Washington.

Southdakotahunter said:
Do you not agree there will be more downstream flooding the more land is drained?
I don't know any more about that than you do. I do know that folks downriver from South Dakota are begging for more water. Do you suppose this would help them out?

Southdakotahunter said:
Do you not agree there will be more downstream flooding the more land is drained? Do you not agree sloughs and potholes create clean water for you and i?
Your east river mud holes must be a lot cleaner than ours out west.

Southdakotahunter said:
Do you not agree that the potholes have a purpose, such as holding some water back when flooding is occuring?
No. I'm sure some hydrologist would be able to tell both of us things we don't know, but, get this straight, if it hinders what property owners can legally do on their own land I DON'T CARE! And neither should you, it isn't any of our business.

Southdakotahunter said:
Ask the people of Grand Forks their feelings of drain tile.
You ask them. I could care less what folks in another state feel about anything, especially about the prairie potholes and hardpan spots on my ranch.

If the changes in the Clean Water Act were approved, not only would I have to get the federal government's approval to do anything with any puddle on my place, I'd have to wait for years for approval because right now there is such a paper backlog that federal bureaucrats can't take care of the applications they've already received. But I guess that would be just fine with you, huh?
 
I sure aint Dean.........wish i could hunt and fish for a living tho.....woudl be alright i think.

I also agree with the gov buying up some land.....matter of fact, I am the one who has purchased it. With my hunting licenses and all the gear i use. Why wouldnt i want that? More places to hunt. Mr Dean nor i have any problem with uses other than hunting and fishing on some lands, as a matter of fact some is good. When they look like a golf course when they are done with them is where the problem lies, along with paying little of nothing for the use of it.

I think the last couple lines of your last post says alot........You ask them. I could care less what folks in another state feel about anything, especially about the prairie potholes and hardpan spots on my ranch.
Quote from LB

Pot holes and sloughs act as a filter system for clean water. I know you have problems figuring that out, but you and your kind only see a few more acres that could be used, the hell with everyone downstream.

I have said many times i dont agree with everything Dean says. I also dont agree you can do what ever you want with your land. No one can. Thats why you need permits to build a building etc.
 
Southdakotahunter said:
I sure aint Dean.........wish i could hunt and fish for a living tho.....woudl be alright i think.

I also agree with the gov buying up some land.....matter of fact, I am the one who has purchased it. With my hunting licenses and all the gear i use. Why wouldnt i want that? More places to hunt. Mr Dean nor i have any problem with uses other than hunting and fishing on some lands, as a matter of fact some is good. When they look like a golf course when they are done with them is where the problem lies, along with paying little of nothing for the use of it.
If I was Tony Dean, I wouldn't admit it either…

Southdakotahunter said:
I think the last couple lines of your last post says alot........You ask them. I could care less what folks in another state feel about anything, especially about the prairie potholes and hardpan spots on my ranch.
Quote from LB

Pot holes and sloughs act as a filter system for clean water. I know you have problems figuring that out, but you and your kind only see a few more acres that could be used, the hell with everyone downstream.
You have no idea what dryland prairie even looks like, do you? Out here we pray for rain so we have enough runoff to fill some of those prairie potholes you want the federal government to regulate for me. Folks downstream from us are also praying that some of those potholes will run over so they get the benefit of more water flowing down our rivers and creeks, at least the few of them that run through here.

Southdakotahunter said:
I have said many times i dont agree with everything Dean says. I also dont agree you can do what ever you want with your land. No one can. Thats why you need permits to build a building etc.
It's pretty obvious that you live in the city. Out here in God's country, no one needs to get a permit to build anything on their own land. What an idiotic idea!

Whose business is it if I want to put up a new shop or a new shed anyway? I own the land, I pay the taxes and buy the materials, and nobody can tell me what I can or can't do on my own place.
 

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