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al gore

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Good grief.

This has nothing to do w/ clinton,

:roll:
And yet all of your posts have referred to Clinton's actions. Dude, you need some perspective.

This is as bad as those folks who codemn absolutely everything Bush does/says.
 
Didn't Al invent the internet? :roll:


during the Clinton Administration, evidence existed (all of the information used in this article was available at the time) that:

-an invasive, extensive domestic eavesdropping program was aimed at every U.S. citizen;

-intelligence agencies were using allies to circumvent constitutional restrictions;

-and the administration was selling at least some secret intelligence for political donations.
http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5150

keeping in mind that during the Clinton administration, when Al Gore was Vice President, a program called "Echelon" was started which entailed capturing and documenting just about every type of electronic communication in the world, Americans included.

but it gets deeper and closer to home on his pet project: Clipper chip.
Al Gore once assured the American public that an Orwellian government would not monitor us. Even today, Al Gore will not claim that he planned to enable the government to tap every phone in the United States if it so desired.

Al Gore wanted to be Big Brother. In 1993, Vice President Al Gore spearheaded a project called "Clipper" which was designed to monitor America. Gore's leadership in this scheme to allow the Feds to have easy access to bug American telephones is all too well documented for him to deny.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/8/29/103257.shtml

if Al hadn't invented the internet we could not have found the information that he "spearheaded" a plan that would have "monitered" America.

Maybe thats why thier labeling him a hypocrite?
 
To quote Rush Limbaugh:

"Al Qaeda, Al Franken, Al Gore, Al Sharpton - is there a connection?" :lol:

(Before anyone bites my head off: I'm joking)
 
theHiredMansWife said:
Good grief.

This has nothing to do w/ clinton,

:roll:
And yet all of your posts have referred to Clinton's actions. Dude, you need some perspective.

This is as bad as those folks who codemn absolutely everything Bush does/says.

I never said it had anything to do with clinton did I? Show me!

GOOD GRIEF IS RIGHT. I may need some perspective in your opinion but I think you need to re-read this post, I am not getting after clinton for his misconduct in this thread, I am simply amazed at how gore can say something like he did and still get up and look at himself in the mirror every day. It's not the conduct of clinton that I'm after it's the lack thereof by al gore.
 
Steve said:
keeping in mind that during the Clinton administration, when Al Gore was Vice President, a program called "Echelon" was started which entailed capturing and documenting just about every type of electronic communication in the world, Americans included.

George Tenent. head of the CIA, said "We do not collect against US persons unless they are agents of a foreign power, as that term is defined in law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department. And we do not target their conversations for collection overseas unless Executive Order 12333 has been followed and the Attorney General has personally approved collection.

You keep putting out stuff that is easily shown to be false, Steve. Keep it up. Link to Tenent's comments:
http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2000/dci_speech_041200.html

Al Gore once assured the American public that an Orwellian government would not monitor us. Even today, Al Gore will not claim that he planned to enable the government to tap every phone in the United States if it so desired.

Al Gore wanted to be Big Brother. In 1993, Vice President Al Gore spearheaded a project called "Clipper" which was designed to monitor America. Gore's leadership in this scheme to allow the Feds to have easy access to bug American telephones is all too well documented for him to deny.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/8/29/103257.shtml

Everyone should take time to read this NewsMax article that Steve has linked to and make up their own minds. The Clinton Administration seemed to be concerned about our security agencies not being able to legally monitor calls, etc., when necessary. That sounds like a valid concern to me.
 
I never said it had anything to do with clinton did I? Show me!

:???:

Um....Ok.



From your posts:

And I quote ""A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." When you consider that clinton lied under oath and basically got away with it, then in my book that's reckless and thoughtless.

And

Reckless and thoughtless in the fact that his boss put his hand on the bible and swore to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me God then lied. He has admitted it. Now al gore says"A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." and expects to be taken seriously? I dont care about the seriousness of the crime. If I swear to tell the truth I would like to think that I would do just that.

Depending upon one's personal biases, you could argue for "hypocrisy". But I'm still not seeing either "reckless" or "thoughtless"....

_____________________________________________
Steve:
Ddin't Al invent the internet?
I realize this is popular joke fodder, but you do realize it was a quote taken out of context, right?


Gore said:
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth, environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Newt Gingrinch (ultra-liberal that he is) on the comment:
In all fairness, it's something Gore had worked on a long time. Gore is not the Father of the Internet, but in all fairness, Gore is the person who, in the Congress, most systematically worked to make sure that we got to an Internet, and the truth is—and I worked with him starting in 1978 when I got [to Congress], we were both part of a "futures group"—the fact is, in the Clinton administration, the world we had talked about in the '80s began to actually happen.
___________

So far as Clinton... Didn't GW promise he was going to bring honesty back to this office? Ie, even if Clinton did violate peoples' 4th Ammendment rights, how is that making it okay for Bush to do the same?

But the real question seems to be why they didn't go through the proper channels. The secret FISA court exists for this very reason. They rarely deny warrants and they can even apply retroactively...
 
Talk about being taken out of context. ARE YOU THAT FREAKIN BLIND? I was implying that it was reckless and thoughless that gore make the statement he did when he defended someone that that did the exact same thing. I refered to clinton so you morons would understand who I was talking about because if I hadn't done so your first question would have been who are you talking about? Because in your feable little minds you still think clinton is innocent. Maybe I didn't word it right for the slower minds, and I'm sorry for that let me try again since this statement of mine has caused such confusion...
For al gore to make the statement "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." after he defended someone, not saying who, but defended someone for basically the same conduct is reckless and thoughtless in my OPINION.

hows that?
 
BBJ said:
Talk about being taken out of context. ARE YOU THAT FREAKIN BLIND? I was implying that it was reckless and thoughless that gore make the statement he did when he defended someone that that did the exact same thing. I refered to clinton so you morons would understand who I was talking about because if I hadn't done so your first question would have been who are you talking about? Because in your feable little minds you still think clinton is innocent. Maybe I didn't word it right for the slower minds, and I'm sorry for that let me try again since this statement of mine has caused such confusion...
For al gore to make the statement "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government." after he defended someone, not saying who, but defended someone for basically the same conduct is reckless and thoughtless in my OPINION.

hows that?

Pardon me? Moron? "Feable little minds" (which, btw, should be "feeble")? Where I have said anything even remotely deserving of this nastiness?

If you're going for rudest poster in the thread, I'm afraid I'll have to bow out of the running now...
 
Sorry you were offended. :( Not trying to be rude, I just have a REAL problem when people can't see right from wrong because of political blindness or any other reason. Would you have a problem standing in front of a group of people and saying what he said if you were in his shoes?

I hope not.
 
Moron and "feable litte mind" weren't inteded to be rude? I don't buy it, but moving on...

I just have a REAL problem when people can't see right from wrong because of political blindness or any other reason.

You're right and I'm wrong? :lol:

You don't suppose that maybe you just have a different perspective than I?



Another suggestion:
Learn to respect other peoples' right to their opinion. It might not be something you agree with, but they have the right to it anyway. And just because they disagree with you doesn't make them wrong.

Try asking questions that challenge their position and cause them to rethink. Personal insults never accomplish anything...
 
Would you have a problem standing in front of a group of people and saying what he said if you were in his shoes?

I hope not.


Nope, I wouldn't have any problem with it.
Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant. I had the same opinion when people kept complaining about Bush Sr. ("Read my lips! No new taxes") well into Clinton's administration. What's the point, afterall?

I agree with Gore. (And Hagel and Sununu and Specter and the various other Republicans who are concerned about the errosion of our Constitutional rights under this administration.)
I'm more of a libertarian than I am either conservative or liberal, so our Constitutional rights are of grave concern to me...
 
HMF again you have missed my point. When I said I just have a REAL problem when people can't see right from wrong because of political blindness or any other reason. I didn't mean that if you disagree with me you are wrong. Never did I say you were wrong and I was right.

As far as your perspective goes, I'm sorry that you fail to see the moral side of my arguement. It has nothing to do with sides on this one it's a moral issue. He is a hypocrite.

By your statement "Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant.", does that excuse the actions of a child molester that commited his/her crime many years ago? I think not.

And you tell me to ask questions to maybe challenge my position. Why have you failed to ask me how I feel about the erosion of our constitutional rights? I feel that IF President Bush did do something illegal then yes there should be an investigation into that, but in this instance I doubt that impeachment would happen. I just hate the fact that democrats get to be hypocrites and liars and if you have a Conservative bone in your body and voice your opinion strongly to those that fail to see right from wrong you get labeled as Rude or mean.
 
BBJ said:
By your statement "Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant.", does that excuse the actions of a child molester that commited his/her crime many years ago? I think not.


What on earth has Gore done that even remotely compares to a child molester????


BBJ said:
And you tell me to ask questions to maybe challenge my position. Why have you failed to ask me how I feel about the erosion of our constitutional rights? I feel that IF President Bush did do something illegal then yes there should be an investigation into that, but in this instance I doubt that impeachment would happen. I just hate the fact that democrats get to be hypocrites and liars and if you have a Conservative bone in your body and voice your opinion strongly to those that fail to see right from wrong you get labeled as Rude or mean.

Let's not get sidetracked here. What got you labeled as rude was your usage of words which were intended to be rude. there is no other way to interpret "moron" or "feeble little mind".
I've known plenty of people with "a conservative bone" who have no trouble expressing their opinion without denigrating others.


And frankly, I couldn't care less if Bush is impeached or not. Nor do I care who points it out.
He was advocating wiretapping without a warrant. That is not legal. Plain, simple, end of story.

And in light of your posts in this thread, you seemed far more interested in hanging the messenger than in discussing his message... Apparently I misunderstood that? :???:
 
I appologize for your inabilty to understand my point. I'll try in the future to not use comparisons. Let me try to clear it up for you. I didn't compare gore to a chilld molester, nor was I comparing clinton to one, I was just simply trying to make a point. Which you missed again.

"Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant."

So by your standards if the last administration gets by with breaking the law it's no big deal.

I understand you now - you think it's only illegal if you get caught.
 
BBJ said:
I appologize for your inabilty to understand my point. I'll try in the future to not use comparisons. Let me try to clear it up for you. I didn't compare gore to a chilld molester, nor was I comparing clinton to one, I was just simply trying to make a point. Which you missed again.

"Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant."

So by your standards if the last administration gets by with breaking the law it's no big deal.

I understand you now - you think it's only illegal if you get caught.

:???:
huh?

How are you getting that from:
Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant.


I said nothing of the sort. And if I remember correctly, Clinton did get caught did he not? (the reminder again: Clinton and Gore are two different people...) And he did face an impeachment, did he not?

I thought I was pretty clear when I said:
Whatever the last administration might or might not have done is irrelevant. I had the same opinion when people kept complaining about Bush Sr. ("Read my lips! No new taxes") well into Clinton's administration. What's the point, afterall?

I guess I'm not sure how to make this any clearer.... :?

You're using the third grade defense for Mikey getting into trouble for cheating on his homework..."But Mom, so did Sara!" It doesn't matter if someone else did it. It has no bearing on whether Mikey is in trouble.

See what I mean?
 
obviously you will never understand my point and maybe thats my fault. Heres the last thing I'm going to say about this. It boils down to the fact that gore stood in front of GOD and everybody and said something about this President breaking the law but when clinton broke the law and got caught for it he said nothing of the sort. My thoughts have nothing to do w/ clinton or bush this is all about gore and being a hypocrite.


Sorry you can't understand that. :cry:
 
Al Gore's 'Living Constitution' Leaves U.S. Vulnerable to Another 9/11

by Terence P. Jeffrey
Posted Jan 18, 2006

When Al Gore ran for president in 2000 he said "our Constitution is a living and breathing document" that changes its meaning over time. This week we learned that among the things changing in Gore's Constitution is the war power. It meant one thing when Bill Clinton was president, but means another thing now.

Seven years ago, then-Vice President Gore supported Clinton in launching a war Congress didn't authorize. Now, he says the Constitution denies President Bush the power merely to intercept an enemy's communications in and out of the U.S.--without permission from a federal judge--in the midst of a war Congress did authorize.

The program in question has been described by Gen. Michael Hayden, principal deputy director for national intelligence, as yielding information about terrorists that could not have been gleaned through court-ordered wiretaps, while intercepting only international communications involving persons linked to al Qaeda.

Yet, on Monday, Gore described the program as "eavesdropping on huge numbers of American citizens" and claimed it "virtually compels the conclusion that the President of the United States has been breaking the law, repeatedly and insistently."

While the liberal ACLU and Center for Constitutional Rights are bringing lawsuits against the program, Gore is calling for a special counsel to investigate Bush.

Now flash back to 1999--the year when only a failed Senate impeachment prosecution stood between Gore and the presidency.

On March 23, 1999, President Clinton ordered U.S. forces to begin bombing Yugoslavia because of its treatment of people in Kosovo. Clinton bombed for three months. The day the war started, then-White House Spokesman Joe Lockhart was asked whether Clinton believed congressional support was "constitutionally necessary." Lockhart said, "Well, I don't think he believes it's constitutionally necessary because we don't believe that."

Congress, in fact, declined to authorize it. The Senate voted 58 to 41 for a resolution "authorizing the President of the United States to conduct military air operations and missile strikes against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia." But the House defeated the resolution, 213 to 213.

Gore aggressively backed Clinton's unauthorized war, suggesting its critics were guilty of "politics." "I think the American people want to see politics removed from any kind of action where our military forces are involved overseas," he said on the April 2, 1999 edition of CNN's "Larry King Live."

Was the Clinton-Gore Kosovo War constitutional? No.

As I have argued before, citing Louis Fisher's Presidential War Power, the Framers unambiguously denied the President the power to initiate offensive military action. But as Framers James Madison and Elbridge Gerry, authors of the war-powers clause, explained at the Constitutional Convention, they did leave "to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks."

In the Founding era no one doubted Congress needed to approve any act of war beyond what was necessary for the President "to repel sudden attacks." In the 1801 case Talbot v. Seeman, involving a ship seized as a war prize, Chief Justice Marshall explained: "The whole powers of war being, by the Constitution of the United States, vested in Congress, the acts of that body can alone be resorted to as our guides in this inquiry. It is not denied, nor in the course of the argument has it been denied, that Congress may authorize general hostilities, in which case the general laws of war apply to our situation; or partial hostilities, in which case the laws of war, so far as they actually apply to our situation, must be noticed."

Was Clinton repelling a sudden attack on the U.S. when he bombed Yugoslavia? Even Gore never claimed that.

In the war against al Qaeda--including his order for the NSA to intercept al Qaeda-linked communications in and out of the U.S.--was President Bush acting either under a congressional war authorization or his own authority to repel sudden attacks?

He was doing both.

After 9/11, Congress authorized the President to make war against "those nations, organizations or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks." If this authorized the President to invade Afghanistan, surely it authorized him to intercept communications between the U.S. and suspected terrorists in Afghanistan.

But even if Congress hadn't authorized a war, it is reasonable to conclude the President could intercept al Qaeda-linked communications in and out of the U.S. even in circumstances where a court-order could not be secured. Surely, the President's authority to repel sudden attacks includes the authority to listen at our frontier for sounds from the enemy.

But--at least so long as there is a Republican in the White House--it seems that Gore's "living and breathing" Constitution would put earplugs in the sentries who guard the border between us and the next 9/11.

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?print=yes&id=11675
 
I must apologize. I didnt know that BBJ was making a big deal out of nothhing. Damn I really wanted to shread a politician for being a complerte moron, but nothing he said was bad. I dont even really get your point BBJ.
 
Karl said:
I must apologize. I didnt know that BBJ was making a big deal out of nothhing. Damn I really wanted to shread a politician for being a complerte moron, but nothing he said was bad. I dont even really get your point BBJ.

Well I'm really sorry you don't understand my point :cry:, It's pretty obvious to me that this man is a hypocrite and nothing more than a politician, and I guess maybe you not being able to see my point has something to do with maybe you don't want to see it? Maybe I'm way off base too? I'll try one more time, this is a quote from HMW "You're using the third grade defense for Mikey getting into trouble for cheating on his homework..."But Mom, so did Sara!" It doesn't matter if someone else did it. It has no bearing on whether Mikey is in trouble." I'm not saying its ok for Bush or anybody else to break the law because clinton did. My complaint here has nothing to do with breaking the law. Nothing, it has to do with the fact that gore supported bill when he was caught breakiing the law and didn't condemn him for it the way he is condemning President Bush. Again it's not because bill broke the law, don't be confused on that, it's because of gores actions that I am upset. Back to HMW 3rd grade defense. And I'm sorry HMW if this comparisons confuses you, but this has nothing to do with who got caught cheating, Mikey or Sara? It has to do with if the teacher caught Sara and let her get away with it because she was a girl, then expelled Mikey when she caught him cheating, but really the reason she expelled him was because she is a girl? I know that comparing gore to a 3rd grade teacher probably ins't the best one to use, but then again maybe it is. Although gore was a vice president to our country he is not better than anybody else including a hypothetical 3rd grade teacher, and my personal belief, weather any of you can get it or not is that you should never defend one person you know to be guilty or wrong then turn around and accuse another for them same type of behavior. To me thats just wrong. Am I wrong in my thinging? I would like an honest answer to that, not a political one. :(
 

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