Alberta cow tests positive for mad cow

[Econ101]

Econ; You think I jumped you a little hard; maybe or maybe not? My whole point was that you should do more research before you make allegations about our Canadian industry. You are just a little too prone to accept RKaiser's point of view as being gospel even when he is stating just his own opinion. There definately is another side to the story!
I have to go vote so will make this short. Our industry looked at testing as a marketing tool but backed off. This is a short-sighted unnecessary procedure that would probably pull resources from the surveillance programs. Advocates of using BSE testing as a maarketing tool have not done due diligance into the recquirements of testing! There was no liability insurance coverage available anywhere (world wide) and any private labs up here had to discontinue any and all BSE testing. The process is only handled now by CFIA labs with the taxpayer holding any liability issues. There is not enough capacity available to even begin to start any unneccessary testing. Try to finance a business plan without liability insurance and see how far you will get!

BSE has pushed Canada into the manditory ID. I know some of the pitfalls of having a M-ID program from a market knowledge perspective. Other than the obvious of BSE prevention, that is where I have most of my reservations for producers. Now Canada has M-ID, and the solution being pushed on US producers is the same system.
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Again you prove just how little you know about our industy. BSE did not force M:ID" on us. :roll: We had it as a PROACTIVE measure designed and implemented by the Canadian beef industry PRE BSE as in 2000 . The only Pitfall would have been if we hadn't had M"ID". It was M"ID" that pulled our butts out of the fire and I believe most producers in Canada will admit to that even those that fought it tooth and nail. . Unlike some in the US that don't care to be burdened with M"ID" we felt it was needed and started implementing it long before we knew we had a problem. PLEASE get your facts right once in a while. And M'ID doesn't prevent BSE it just helps speed up the investigation when all reportable disease are found.

Tam, I don't really care to know a whole lot about your industry and all the little facts. If I happen to get one little thing wrong on your industry, or your country, so what? I didn't take Canadian history. If you had M ID before BSE, how did it help out? It still did not help your train wreck out.

I know some of the pitfalls of having a M-ID program from a market knowledge perspective. Other than the obvious of BSE prevention, that is where I have most of my reservations for producers. Now Canada has M-ID, and the solution being pushed on US producers is the same system.

Here is the real stuff:

The fact is that during the trade negotiations, the negotiators on both sides of our border left out the protections of the PSA in regards to Canadian cattle trade. During the "salmon run" it hurt Canadian producers to the benefit of the Canadian packers who took money from both sides--Canadian producers and taxpayer relief. It allowed the companies playing the concentration game to come out winners. Without PSA protections, that cattle trade can be "international" supplies that don't come with PSA protections (little as they are at this particular point in time) for U.S. producers, but are being used by the same players that use them to manipulate the markets in the USA. The fact is that your trade negotiators put you in this position. I don't call that helping out the Canadian cattle industry, I call that helping out Canadian and U.S. packers against the interests of producers. Your govt. did not help out the situation one bit, and it hasn't changed yet. Most of the Canadians on this board (with a few exceptions) don't even recognize this problem and speak out to fix it. Why do you think r-calf has had so much success? Solve this problem and much of the hate towards the Canadian supplies will be gone.

 

[Tam]

Okay R2, liable for what?

Should a company say that they are going to test for BSE and they find one, are they liable???

I trueuly do not know where cowsense is coming from with this one.

Well if a private lab tested an animal and announces it as a positive and then on confirmation it we truly a negative would the lab not be responsible for the hit the industry took because of the false information that was announce by their lab?

 

[Econ101]

Okay R2, liable for what?

Should a company say that they are going to test for BSE and they find one, are they liable???

I trueuly do not know where cowsense is coming from with this one.

Well if a private lab tested an animal and announces it as a positive and then on confirmation it we truly a negative would the lab not be responsible for the hit the industry took because of the false information that was announce by their lab?

Sounds like you are more interested in the publicity than the facts. Don't worry, you have a lot of company on that one. That is where it is scary.

 

[Mike]

Well if a private lab tested an animal and announces it as a positive and then on confirmation it we truly a negative would the lab not be responsible for the hit the industry took because of the false information that was announce by their lab?

That's exactly what happened with the USDA last year. Why would a "Private" lab be held to a higher standard than the USDA?

 

[rkaiser]

Quote:
Tam - Well if a private lab tested an animal and announces it as a positive and then on confirmation it we truly a negative would the lab not be responsible for the hit the industry took because of the false information that was announce by their lab?


That's exactly what happened with the USDA last year. Why would a "Private" lab be held to a higher standard than the USDA?

Responsible - responsible.
No one in this industry has been responsible from the start. Producers and to a certain extent, the Canadian Taxpayer has been held responsible financially, but beyond that ----------

Oh right, we have a few Canadian vets who got their knuckles rapped, or maybe even lost their jobs, I'm not sure. How about the plant in New York that shipped out the spinal columns to Japan; are they responsible for anything?

If the wording is correct, and the customer comfortable with the wording, liability would not be an issue. Simply one more arguement easily shot down by our USDA led CCA and their band of know it all's.

 

[Tam]

BSE has pushed Canada into the manditory ID. I know some of the pitfalls of having a M-ID program from a market knowledge perspective. Other than the obvious of BSE prevention, that is where I have most of my reservations for producers. Now Canada has M-ID, and the solution being pushed on US producers is the same system.
.

Again you prove just how little you know about our industy. BSE did not force M:ID" on us. :roll: We had it as a PROACTIVE measure designed and implemented by the Canadian beef industry PRE BSE as in 2000 . The only Pitfall would have been if we hadn't had M"ID". It was M"ID" that pulled our butts out of the fire and I believe most producers in Canada will admit to that even those that fought it tooth and nail. . Unlike some in the US that don't care to be burdened with M"ID" we felt it was needed and started implementing it long before we knew we had a problem. PLEASE get your facts right once in a while. And M'ID doesn't prevent BSE it just helps speed up the investigation when all reportable disease are found.

Tam, I don't really care to know a whole lot about your industry and all the little facts. If I happen to get one little thing wrong on your industry, or your country, so what? I didn't take Canadian history. If you had M ID before BSE, how did it help out? It still did not help your train wreck out.

I know some of the pitfalls of having a M-ID program from a market knowledge perspective. Other than the obvious of BSE prevention, that is where I have most of my reservations for producers. Now Canada has M-ID, and the solution being pushed on US producers is the same system.

.

Geez Econ you don't have to take Canadian history to know we had M"ID" in place pre BSE. all you have to do is read what we have been telling you right here on Ranchers. But you are so arrogant you probably wouldn't admit we know something about OUR INDUSTRY that you don't. That little fact as you called it took us years to design and fully implement and was a big factor on how successful our investigations were once BSE was found. I ask if it is such a little fact why are the US producers fight tooth and nail about that very issue and the USDA thinking the US might have a system of their own up and running by 2009 if that soon. Please remember even R-CALF is now on side saying M"ID" is need and boosting about how they got the talks back on track. If they hadn't derailed the talks they wouldn't have to get them back on track and the US wouldn't be years behind. And if you have to ask how our M"ID" helpped out then again you have not been paying attention to what the Canadian and some US producers have been saying. It HELPPED out in the large FACT we were able to find the cattle involved once a case was found within a reasonable amount of time unlike the US. And Again M"ID" doesn't PREVENT BSE it was design to find the herd of origin as fast as possible so that the investigators have two places to start from to find all cattle involved. If they started from the place where it was discovered only, it would take longer. By starting from both ends if they don't meet somewhere in the middle chances are they aren't on the right trail. Geez it isn't Rocket science ECON. M'ID" was not designed to stop a train wreck it was design to lessen the blow when a train wreck happens as they sometimes do. Because of M"ID" the Canadian beef industry may see a few more survivors pulled out of the wreckage.

 

[Mike]

Don't listen to her Econ. They didn't have ID in place pre-BSE.

BSE was found in Canada in 1993. :wink:

 

[elwapo]

just heard on the ag news today that we tested 57000+ animals for BSE in Canada in 2005. That is 90% higher than the level called for by international standards.

 

[greg]

Personally why Tam doesn't get more cranky trying to get ANYTHING through econs little pea brain is beyond me, he has no clue what any of us Canadians do for our industry but trys to bait us into argueing with him ,I don't argue doesn't do any good to argue with someone whos mind won't open enuff to hear facts....there you go i'm in a pissy mood today and said what i think of econ

 

[Econ101]

Personally why Tam doesn't get more cranky trying to get ANYTHING through econs little pea brain is beyond me, he has no clue what any of us Canadians do for our industry but trys to bait us into argueing with him ,I don't argue doesn't do any good to argue with someone whos mind won't open enuff to hear facts....there you go i'm in a pissy mood today and said what i think of econ

Greg and Tam, I started you own little thread.

Thanks, Mike. I don't know how a southern boy would know more about Canada than Tam and company. Must be something you get when you brown nose.

 

[Tommy]

Tam...Please remember even R-CALF is now on side saying M"ID" is need and boosting about how they got the talks back on track.

Is this breaking news Tam? I have never heard R-CALF say anything other than they want it voluntary.

 

[Tam]

Don't listen to her Econ. They didn't have ID in place pre-BSE.

BSE was found in Canada in 1993. :wink:

Yes, we probably did put it in place, in part, because of the 93 case. But if you remember Mike that was NOT A NATIVE CASE. The fact that we looked at the non native case and decided we needed to do something, is still more that the US did. Did the US producers look at the fact that BSE was found in an animal imported to Canada from the UK and think we have imported MORE cattle from the UK and MORE Feed, maybe we should do something about a ID system too? No When the imported BSE was discovered to have spread in Canada in May 2003, did you look at it and say well if it has spread in Canada it could be spreading in the US as we too imported cattle and feed from the UK and our safeguards aren't as stringent as those that Canada has in place? (Hint CHICKEN LITTER) No . When BSE was found in the US in Dec 2003, the US producers tried to dismiss it as an imported case, blaming Canada for all your troubles and denied that you could ever have the same problems. Did you learn from our BSE crisis? NO Even the OIE told you that you couldn't consider this an imported case as you couldn't find all cattle imported from Canada or the UK so the BSE agent was likely in the US system and you were to treat the Dec case as a native, did you? NO you still blamed us and denied you had a problem. You didn't learn anything until the fact that BSE could and was spreading within the US was driven home by a NATIVE CASE. Now the US is, like ECON says, being forced into M"ID" as you could not find the NATIVE cattle involved in your NATIVE case, UNLIKE CANADA.

 

[Econ101]

Don't listen to her Econ. They didn't have ID in place pre-BSE.

BSE was found in Canada in 1993. :wink:

Yes, we probably did put it in place, in part, because of the 93 case. But if you remember Mike that was NOT A NATIVE CASE. The fact that we looked at the non native case and decided we needed to do something, is still more that the US did. Did the US producers look at the fact that BSE was found in an animal imported to Canada from the UK and think we have imported MORE cattle from the UK and MORE Feed, maybe we should do something about a ID system too? No When the imported BSE was discovered to have spread in Canada in May 2003, did you look at it and say well if it has spread in Canada it could be spreading in the US as we too imported cattle and feed from the UK and our safeguards aren't as stringent as those that Canada has in place? (Hint CHICKEN LITTER) No . When BSE was found in the US in Dec 2003, the US producers tried to dismiss it as an imported case, blaming Canada for all your troubles and denied that you could ever have the same problems. Did you learn from our BSE crisis? NO Even the OIE told you that you couldn't consider this an imported case as you couldn't find all cattle imported from Canada or the UK so the BSE agent was likely in the US system and you were to treat the Dec case as a native, did you? NO you still blamed us and denied you had a problem. You didn't learn anything until the fact that BSE could and was spreading within the US was driven home by a NATIVE CASE. Now the US is, like ECON says, being forced into M"ID" as you could not find the NATIVE cattle involved in your NATIVE case, UNLIKE CANADA.

Tam, the article I posted on the other thread said that there were some imported cattle that were not rounded up. That makes those cattle Canadian cattle (what are the residency requirements for cattle?).

 

[rkaiser]

Exactly what the packer led USDA and CCA love to see. Distraction from the truth and fighting among producers in Canada and the USA.

Sitting back rubbing their hands together knowing that one way or another, one side of the border or another, an opportunity lies waiting.

Fight on Rcalf, fight on NCBA, fight on CCA. Like watching a prize fight that has already been fixed. Don't matter who wins, the money is already made.

 

[Mike]

I know those 10 "YOU"s in that paragraph weren't meant for me. Nothing in your post coincides with my stance on transparency, etc.

I really wish we could be as perfect as "YOU" have been Tam. But then again, you might have been better off to Shoot, Shovel, and Shut up.

I get it. Your "Imported- Non-Native" case was valid but ours wasn't?

I'm just going on with you Tam, you're just too easy to get riled! :wink:

 

[Bill]

Tam...Please remember even R-CALF is now on side saying M"ID" is need and boosting about how they got the talks back on track.

Is this breaking news Tam? I have never heard R-CALF say anything other than they want it voluntary.

What good is an ID system where not all cattle are identified? It has to be mandatory and industry wide to be effective.

 

[Mike]

It is amazing how many of us here get so riled up in response to some unknown person posting some words on a rancher's forum, isn't it?! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

What is amazing is that we all know which "Buttons" to push to get a particular response from a person. NO :lol:

 

[greg]

Right about that reader! Tired of Econ trying to say we've done nothing to protect our industry,just because we don't sit all day in bull and argue....look back on the last5-6 months i've been on see if anyone ever riled me before,oh and by the way Mike I believe econ called you a brown noser :shock:

 

[Mike]

and by the way Mike I believe econ called you a brown noser Shocked

Where? Show me where he said that about me! I can't believe he would use Jason's name on me. Where? Post the quote! Oh $hit, what do I do?

Econ, would you do that to me? Why? Just give me one good reason. :wink:

 

[Tam]

Don't listen to her Econ. They didn't have ID in place pre-BSE.

BSE was found in Canada in 1993. :wink:

Yes, we probably did put it in place, in part, because of the 93 case. But if you remember Mike that was NOT A NATIVE CASE. The fact that we looked at the non native case and decided we needed to do something, is still more that the US did. Did the US producers look at the fact that BSE was found in an animal imported to Canada from the UK and think we have imported MORE cattle from the UK and MORE Feed, maybe we should do something about a ID system too? No When the imported BSE was discovered to have spread in Canada in May 2003, did you look at it and say well if it has spread in Canada it could be spreading in the US as we too imported cattle and feed from the UK and our safeguards aren't as stringent as those that Canada has in place? (Hint CHICKEN LITTER) No . When BSE was found in the US in Dec 2003, the US producers tried to dismiss it as an imported case, blaming Canada for all your troubles and denied that you could ever have the same problems. Did you learn from our BSE crisis? NO Even the OIE told you that you couldn't consider this an imported case as you couldn't find all cattle imported from Canada or the UK so the BSE agent was likely in the US system and you were to treat the Dec case as a native, did you? NO you still blamed us and denied you had a problem. You didn't learn anything until the fact that BSE could and was spreading within the US was driven home by a NATIVE CASE. Now the US is, like ECON says, being forced into M"ID" as you could not find the NATIVE cattle involved in your NATIVE case, UNLIKE CANADA.

Tam - the YOU whom you are addressing is the current American administration and the USDA. Mike, me, Oldtimer, Rancher, and others have been saying from Day One - be honest, increase surveillance, put in ID systems, and close ALL FEED LOOPHOLES. So while your post is correct that the American administration and USDA and NCBA behaved this way, you can't say "you" and "US producers" in a monolithic way. While you were yelling at R-Calf and now insulting their flatulence, they were calling for more testing, better testing, closing feedloops (although I admit they were also saying things I don't agree with about Canada).

the YOU whom you are addressing is the current American administration and the USDA.

We as an industry implement M"ID. The CFIA was going to step in but we asked them to step back and let the BEEF Industry design something we could live with. We designed and implement a system that proved to do what it was designed to do and we are improving on the system with little help from the CFIA. So I ask you Reader why do you insist that it was the governments fault that the US doesn't have M'ID? As I understand from R-CALF's bragging they were the ones that got M"ID" taken out of M"COOL as to not burden the US producers with the cost of a system. And the NCBA have been asking to implement one. And this was meant to make me laugh wasn't it

Mike, me, Oldtimer, Rancher, and others have been saying from Day One - be honest, increase surveillance, put in ID systems, and close ALL FEED LOOPHOLES.

Oldtimer wants nothing less than a National ID system Reader. He wants M'COOL implement AS IS without M"ID" and the yes the feed ban loopholes closed then let it rip. R-CALF's version of M"COOL" doesn't have M"ID" as it isn't needed it they just mark the imports and all other will be US by default. They don't want to be honest to the US consumer about where the US beef was born as that may make them responsible for the effect it has on the consumer.

While you were yelling at R-Calf and now insulting their flatulence, they were calling for more testing, better testing, closing feedloops

Could it possibably because of comments like this that I hate R-CALF Reader
more R-CALF quotes for you Reader. from Leo McDonnell

"we know Canada is still processing downer animals, the United States does not process downers

Lie

"We test annually over 150,000 more cattle than Canada tests."

why would they ask for more testing Reader in their eyes Canada was the one with the problem. But the statement was still a LIE the numbers proved it

Canada has a chronic problem with their Meat and Bone Meal (MBM) feed ban and that it is ineffective.

If we had a chronic problem why is it that we have only had 5 cases found in over 3 1/2 years.

Canada's feed ban is not adequately enforced. News reports originating in Canada indicated that as much as 70% of cattle feed samples tested contained unauthorized animal parts, suggesting that Canada has not adequately enforced its feed bans".

Gee what happen to the part about some of the samples were imported from the US Reader?

"Our high health and safety standards are needed to protect consumers, the beef industry, and U.S. jobs".

What High Standards are protecting US jobs how many were lost when packing plants started closing and what High Standards are protecting them now that the US has BSE.

Under no circumstances should the United States accept any cattle, beef or beef products, from countries that do not maintain identical or more stringent safeguard measures that is presently required or presently proposed in the United States which measures have been enforced for at least as long as the United States.

Gee now they are saying the US has to implement the same safeguards Canada has had and I'm sure it was OLDTIMER that said Don't we have a right to have the same safeguards in place to protect us as Canada has

"we know if we are going to keep consumer confidence we are going to maintain some of the highest standards in the world to make sure that BSE is not introduced into this country. And we are going to make sure we have the best meat and bone meal ban in this country in place. So if for some reason we did find a case we can stand and look our consumers right in the eye and say, don't worry we have had these firewalls in place for years, the only country prior to having a case of BSE to have these firewalls in place for so many years. And we did it to make sure if a case was ever found it was a non-issue. If we look them right in the eye and say that I will guarantee they will keep eating beef".

Gee Reader we had HIGHER standards and R-CALF is now admitting to it but did those higher standards make this into a non issue in R-CALF's eyes.?
from their brief to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal that

"R-CALF USA [has] never argued that there was a great risk to human health from resumed imports of cattle and beef from Canada."

Bull, you and I both know they used damning words to discredit the Canadian industry so US consumer, sorry consumer don't know about the Canadian beef in the US so I guess they were trying to sway US producers away from eating Canadian beef.
Now you say they have been saying from Day One - be honest, increase surveillance, put in ID systems, and close ALL FEED LOOPHOLES. No from day one you maybe Reader have but R-CALF and their supporters has been saying anything that comes to mind and being honest was not on their mind.