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americans sour on trade

NAFTA, the great free trade experiment, has failed. We tried free trade, it doesn't work, and now it's time for fair trade.
 
Sandhusker said:
NAFTA, the great free trade experiment, has failed. We tried free trade, it doesn't work, and now it's time for fair trade.
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I have to agree with you 100% on that one Sandy. We Canadians have spent our turn over the NAFTA barrel for long enough and it's time to get out. Fair trade would be a welcome change.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Sandhusker said:
Having a trade surplus is being over a barrel? I'll take that barrel.
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Just think how much more we could make with higher tariffs on oil, fuel, fertilizer and lumer. :D
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Not to mention Uranium and Diamonds and electricity.
 
Sandhusker said:
Having a trade surplus is being over a barrel? I'll take that barrel.
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You lost this argument last time, surely you don't want to go down that road again. Plus, this country is not always in a trade surplus situation any more.
 
We've got a trade deficit with every country that we have one of those damn agreements with. How much more evidence do we need to figure out that these are not working for us.
 
Must be something to it- as for years you have had the (D's), true conservatives that don't want to give up national sovereignty, and the producer groups that represent the cow/calf cattle producers fighting against the FTA's and now you even have the fringe group Tea Party group recognizing the negative impact it has done to the country :

The Tea Party Pledge

We, the undersigned, pledge to vote only for sound candidates regardless of their party. We seek traditional candidates who favor an anti-globalist, America-First platform. We shall only vote for a candidate who:

(1) Supports reductions in legal immigration; favors attrition policies, ending birthright citizenship and terminating chain migration; and opposes amnesty and illegal immigration. (Both legal and illegal immigration are driving down American wages and undermining traditional demographics.)

(2) Supports America First economic policies and opposes free trade (e.g. NAFTA, et al.), which is destroying the American economy. (Historically conservatives opposed free trade, a globalist practice that Karl Marx himself supported.)

(3) Supports national self-defense but opposes interventionism and nation building. The transformation of the Middle East to liberal democracy is Wilsonian liberalism, not conservatism.

(4) Opposes federal bailouts.

(5) Supports states' sovereignty.

Unless a Democrat or Republican candidate meets the criteria above, we pledge not to vote or to vote third party.
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We've got a trade deficit with every country that we have one of those damn agreements with. How much more evidence do we need to figure out that these are not working for us.
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You got a free trade agreement with China that I don't know about Sandy? Maybe your trade deficit problems have something to do with the fact that your multinationals have relocated all their manufacturing facilities elsewhere.
 
Sandhusker, it Looks like it it time for America to stand aside and wave. Manufacuting gone, wall street scam artists, and trade insulation have created the next "superpower of the past" chapter in the history books. The rest of the world is about done scrambling for the the crumbs produced by a self proffessed capitalist democracey that is neither free or market driven compared to the majority of the western world. The absolute ethos of greed of the major corporations is thinly blanketed by the flag of capitalism. This mindless, moral free, corporate culture has produced a cancer which has spread across the planet consuming the people and natural resources while giving us the temporary warm and fuzzy feeling from a good buy at wallmart. All the while us agricultural producers his and spit at each other like cats fighting over a bowl of milk while we fight to provide the cheapest raw products to feed the corporate machine. The Tea Party folks would like to reduce the taxes at the top, akin to throwing the romans bread at the coloseum while the city burns and the hordes mass. I hope in the depth of my heart that America can pull itself out of this tailspin and once again take the lead moving humanity forward. We have a good indication that re-imerging super powers like china will certainly not.
 
Isn't it true that those who would cut income taxes want them cut for all who PAY income taxes???

Isn't it true that it is the 47% of our population who pay NO income tax who are draining the lifeblood from the rest of us?

Is it 'evil corporations' who have trashed our manufacturing.......or is it the politicians and eco-freako's who over-regulated those businesses out of the USA?

Is it the farmer who wants to use modern business practices, including choosing how he markets his cattle, for instance, or the one who is managing his checkoff according to law who is keeping the infighting going among ag producers, or is it the farmers who insist that "small, local, slow, or seasonal" food is safe, wholesome and well worth the high price, and that "commercial, processed, or long distance" food is harmful and only enriches corporations the group promoting the fighting???

mrj
 
Isn't it true that those who would cut income taxes want them cut for all who PAY income taxes???
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Somebody has to pay the tax? The tax system is based on the ability to pay. It is obvious that those in the population that dont pay tax dont have the money to do so. Right before the top end of the french society were lined up and beheaded Marie Antoinette said "If they have no bread let them eat cake". The spread between the rich and poor in America is spreading wider every day.

Is it 'evil corporations' who have trashed our manufacturing.......or is it the politicians and eco-freako's who over-regulated those businesses out of the USA?
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The answer is simply a foriegn labour force that will work for pennies a day.

Is it the farmer who wants to use modern business practices, including choosing how he markets his cattle, for instance, or the one who is managing his checkoff according to law who is keeping the infighting going among ag producers, or is it the farmers who insist that "small, local, slow, or seasonal" food is safe, wholesome and well worth the high price, and that "commercial, processed, or long distance" food is harmful and only enriches corporations the group promoting the fighting??
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?
So the check of will fix the spread between what is payed by the consumer and then filters down to the producer. It seems like "niche" markets are a great choice. Whether the local food claims are true or not they pale compared to the bull@#it spewed in the mega marketting claims by some of the the corps. IE "margarine is good... butter is bad"

Corps are not all bad. They all, however, have answer only to the god of "return on investment". Therefore moving jobs to the low income countries is not a moral choice, it is simply business.
 
Elwapo, "The tax system is based on the ability to pay. It is obvious that those in the population that dont pay tax dont have the money to do so."

I don't know that I entirely agree with that. I know there are many people around here that, because of our idiotic tax structure, don't pay income taxes - but they seem to have the money for smokes, hooch, new outfits, etc.....
 
Sandhusker said:
Elwapo, "The tax system is based on the ability to pay. It is obvious that those in the population that dont pay tax dont have the money to do so."

I don't know that I entirely agree with that. I know there are many people around here that, because of our idiotic tax structure, don't pay income taxes - but they seem to have the money for smokes, hooch, new outfits, etc.....
Click to expand...

And so then they pay their taxes thru the tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes, vehicle and gas taxes..... Everyone pays taxes- it just those that make more than a certain amount have to also pay income tax .....
 
elwapo said:
Sandhusker, it Looks like it it time for America to stand aside and wave. Manufacuting gone, wall street scam artists, and trade insulation have created the next "superpower of the past" chapter in the history books. The rest of the world is about done scrambling for the the crumbs produced by a self proffessed capitalist democracey that is neither free or market driven compared to the majority of the western world. The absolute ethos of greed of the major corporations is thinly blanketed by the flag of capitalism. This mindless, moral free, corporate culture has produced a cancer which has spread across the planet consuming the people and natural resources while giving us the temporary warm and fuzzy feeling from a good buy at wallmart. All the while us agricultural producers his and spit at each other like cats fighting over a bowl of milk while we fight to provide the cheapest raw products to feed the corporate machine. The Tea Party folks would like to reduce the taxes at the top, akin to throwing the romans bread at the coloseum while the city burns and the hordes mass. I hope in the depth of my heart that America can pull itself out of this tailspin and once again take the lead moving humanity forward. We have a good indication that re-imerging super powers like china will certainly not.
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:agree: :tiphat:

About as good as I have ever heard it said.
 
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Elwapo, "The tax system is based on the ability to pay. It is obvious that those in the population that dont pay tax dont have the money to do so."

I don't know that I entirely agree with that. I know there are many people around here that, because of our idiotic tax structure, don't pay income taxes - but they seem to have the money for smokes, hooch, new outfits, etc.....
Click to expand...

And so then they pay their taxes thru the tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes, vehicle and gas taxes..... Everyone pays taxes- it just those that make more than a certain amount have to also pay income tax .....
Click to expand...


So do you think it's time Montana had a sales tax ?
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Elwapo, "The tax system is based on the ability to pay. It is obvious that those in the population that dont pay tax dont have the money to do so."

I don't know that I entirely agree with that. I know there are many people around here that, because of our idiotic tax structure, don't pay income taxes - but they seem to have the money for smokes, hooch, new outfits, etc.....
Click to expand...

And so then they pay their taxes thru the tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes, vehicle and gas taxes..... Everyone pays taxes- it just those that make more than a certain amount have to also pay income tax .....
Click to expand...


So do you think it's time Montana had a sales tax ?
Click to expand...

I've thought so for years.....Especially to replace the property tax....
 
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Oldtimer said:
And so then they pay their taxes thru the tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes, vehicle and gas taxes..... Everyone pays taxes- it just those that make more than a certain amount have to also pay income tax .....
Click to expand...


So do you think it's time Montana had a sales tax ?
Click to expand...

I've thought so for years.....Especially to replace the property tax....
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that just be another tax on the poor?
 

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