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Angus genetic defect update

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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kolanuraven said:
Hay Feeder said:
Jumping ship is option
AAA should of taken care of these issues many years ago
No question the large breeders, money investors and registered cattle traders are trying to find something wrong with their competitors cattle
Now DNA / testing company's that can generate the associations more money than registrations and transfers ever have

I contacted a sales manger this summer about him marketing my cattle he told me I was not big enough for him
Is this new defect really a defect or something a lab dreamed up to generate more business
It always seems that someone with starched shirts in a office somewhere ( may of never raised cattle) find someway to manulape producers.
Those are also reasons for jumping ship !

It is a defect.....a recessive allele.. and it does exist and calves can be born with this, BUT IT IS RARE.........but it is just that RECESSIVE.


It has existed since bovines have existed as it had to come from somewhere, it just didn't ' happen' all of a sudden.

Much ado about nothing here. AAA needs to control their own information releases and not let some lab/testing firm do it for them as their motives are totally different.


mutation

A change in the structure of the genes or chromosomes of an organism. Mutations occurring in the reproductive cells, such as an egg or sperm, can be passed from one generation to the next. Most mutations occur in junk DNA and have no discernible effects on the survivability of an organism. Of the remaining mutations, the majority have harmful effects, while a minority can increase an organism's ability to survive. A mutation that benefits a species may evolve by means of natural selection into a trait shared by some or all members of the species
 
Denny said:
Funny how that black gene can be so prevalent in only 3%.

If a mated cow and bull have 2 Black genes (homozygous) and no other "Color" genetics are introduced downline, they and their offspring will always have Black offspring except for maybe for a rare mutation (albino).

Same with horns. If Homozygous Polled cattle are continually bred to each other the offspring will always be polled.
 
HerefordGuy said:
I chimed in on BEEF Magazine's Cow-Calf Weekly.
http://steakgenomics.blogspot.com/2013/08/reaching-peak.html

When we identify 100 recessive lethals per breed, people are going to have to change their attitudes towards broken genes/genetic defects.

Everyone can do what they want with the lethal genetic genes, but I will lump them in the same category with other non desireable traits such as bad feet, bad udders, bad dispositions and any other traits that decrease the economic viability of the cattle I am breeding. The thing with these is it is simply a little test to find the answer in a couple weeks wherease so many other traits it takes 5 to 10 years before you find out the real story on a herdsire. To ignore lethal genetic defects makes me ask why are you in the purebred cattle business if you arent going to improve the cattle?
 
That's typical bull shirt. There is no way they are going to find 100 lethal defects per breed. Probably not even close to 20.

Science said the average human has 7 and cattle have been bred a lot closer to where we would have seen a lot of the defects. I am sure they will find several but it will be no where close to 100. The HerefordGuy should be embarrassed for saying that and to think he lives off our tax dollars.

Money well spent. LMAO
 
angus2 said:
HerefordGuy said:
I chimed in on BEEF Magazine's Cow-Calf Weekly.
http://steakgenomics.blogspot.com/2013/08/reaching-peak.html

When we identify 100 recessive lethals per breed, people are going to have to change their attitudes towards broken genes/genetic defects.

By the time you reach 20, most who demand an emotion based instant cure will be gone.

Eliminating lethal genetic defects isnt based on emotion, for me its based on economics. Emotion is what drives lots of things in the purebred cattle business from auctions, to advertising, to epds, to cattle shows and AI companies. Lots and lots of people get caught up in their emotions in this business and maybe that would be good if those that make breeding decisions based on emotion would get out.

Even if there are 500 lethal defects out there, we need to find a way to get rid of them. Otherwise there would be no commercial cattleman out there with any sense that would straight breed their cows.

Im not involved in the hog business, but I am curious to know if they ran into genetic defects as they got their genetic base more consolidated and what did they do about it.
 
nortexsook said:
That's typical bull s***. There is no way they are going to find 100 lethal defects per breed. Probably not even close to 20.

Science said the average human has 7 and cattle have been bred a lot closer to where we would have seen a lot of the defects. I am sure they will find several but it will be no where close to 100. The HerefordGuy should be embarrassed for saying that and to think he lives off our tax dollars.

Money well spent. LMAO

The average human has 100 loss of function mutations, 20 of which are lethal. http://www.sciencemag.org/content/335/6070/823
I try very hard not to speak out of term.
I am not arguing that every farmer or rancher should use carrier animals. I am arguing that producer's should have the right/ability to choose how they manage known defects, especially when the technology is available.
See the producer who commented on the BEEF Magazine website.

p.s. I also don't support selling known carrier animals to unsuspecting buyers.
 
nortexsook said:
That's typical bull s***. There is no way they are going to find 100 lethal defects per breed. Probably not even close to 20.

Science said the average human has 7 and cattle have been bred a lot closer to where we would have seen a lot of the defects. I am sure they will find several but it will be no where close to 100. The HerefordGuy should be embarrassed for saying that and to think he lives off our tax dollars.

Money well spent. LMAO

By the way, after sequencing 11 bulls we have found 76 putative lethal mutations. I'm sure we will find many more when we sequence 150 bulls.
 
SMN Herf said:
angus2 said:
HerefordGuy said:
I chimed in on BEEF Magazine's Cow-Calf Weekly.
http://steakgenomics.blogspot.com/2013/08/reaching-peak.html

When we identify 100 recessive lethals per breed, people are going to have to change their attitudes towards broken genes/genetic defects.

By the time you reach 20, most who demand an emotion based instant cure will be gone.

Eliminating lethal genetic defects isnt based on emotion, for me its based on economics. Emotion is what drives lots of things in the purebred cattle business from auctions, to advertising, to epds, to cattle shows and AI companies. Lots and lots of people get caught up in their emotions in this business and maybe that would be good if those that make breeding decisions based on emotion would get out.

Even if there are 500 lethal defects out there, we need to find a way to get rid of them. Otherwise there would be no commercial cattleman out there with any sense that would straight breed their cows.

Im not involved in the hog business, but I am curious to know if they ran into genetic defects as they got their genetic base more consolidated and what did they do about it.

PIC uses a mate selection software program to manage defects.
 
HerefordGuy said:
nortexsook said:
That's typical bull s***. There is no way they are going to find 100 lethal defects per breed. Probably not even close to 20.

Science said the average human has 7 and cattle have been bred a lot closer to where we would have seen a lot of the defects. I am sure they will find several but it will be no where close to 100. The HerefordGuy should be embarrassed for saying that and to think he lives off our tax dollars.

Money well spent. LMAO

By the way, after sequencing 11 bulls we have found 76 putative lethal mutations. I'm sure we will find many more when we sequence 150 bulls.

Are the 11 bulls different breeds or all one breed? If they are different breeds then you are making my case for me. For example then if it is 11 bulls of 11 breeds then the "average" lethals per breed is 6.91. You ran your mouth off and said "HUNDREDS" per BREED.[/b]
 
nortexsook said:
HerefordGuy said:
nortexsook said:
That's typical bull s***. There is no way they are going to find 100 lethal defects per breed. Probably not even close to 20.

Science said the average human has 7 and cattle have been bred a lot closer to where we would have seen a lot of the defects. I am sure they will find several but it will be no where close to 100. The HerefordGuy should be embarrassed for saying that and to think he lives off our tax dollars.

Money well spent. LMAO

By the way, after sequencing 11 bulls we have found 76 putative lethal mutations. I'm sure we will find many more when we sequence 150 bulls.

Are the 11 bulls different breeds or all one breed? If they are different breeds then you are making my case for me. For example then if it is 11 bulls of 11 breeds then the "average" lethals per breed is 6.91. You ran your mouth off and said "HUNDREDS" per BREED.[/b]
They are all one breed.
 
HerefordGuy said:
nortexsook said:
HerefordGuy said:
By the way, after sequencing 11 bulls we have found 76 putative lethal mutations. I'm sure we will find many more when we sequence 150 bulls.

Are the 11 bulls different breeds or all one breed? If they are different breeds then you are making my case for me. For example then if it is 11 bulls of 11 breeds then the "average" lethals per breed is 6.91. You ran your mouth off and said "HUNDREDS" per BREED.[/b]
They are all one breed.

Holsteins????

Come on now and try to be more upfront.
 
nortexsook said:
HerefordGuy said:
nortexsook said:
Are the 11 bulls different breeds or all one breed? If they are different breeds then you are making my case for me. For example then if it is 11 bulls of 11 breeds then the "average" lethals per breed is 6.91. You ran your mouth off and said "HUNDREDS" per BREED.[/b]
They are all one breed.

Holsteins????

Come on now and try to be more upfront.
11 sequenced Angus. Excuse me for not being upfront about unpublished data.
 
HerefordGuy said:
nortexsook said:
HerefordGuy said:
They are all one breed.

Holsteins????

Come on now and try to be more upfront.
11 sequenced Angus. Excuse me for not being upfront about unpublished data.

Could you explain what putative means? My dictionary says "reputed, supposed". So are they lethals or not? Wouldn't you have to have a DEAD calf or animal to determine this for sure? And if you only have 11 head, how do you know they are mutations? Would there need to be more samples to see what the "normal pattern" is? Just asking.

Also when you say "we" what do you mean by "we"? Is it "we" like when I talk about the Texas Rangers and say "we need to hit better with RISP?" Or are you ACTUALLY in on the research? Because Dr. Beever works at a totally different University in a total different state than you, correct?
 
I work with Jerry Taylor, Bob Schnabel, and Dave Patterson at the University of Missouri. I am actually part of the research. Dr. Taylor works quite frequently with Dr. Beever. In fact we (Mizzou) did the 50K genotyping that lead to the hypotrichosis test in Herefords. And Dr. Beever is not the only person who identifies mutations responsible for genetic defects. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0015116

The 76 mutations cause a major change (damaging amino acid substitution, protein truncation, disrupted splice site, etc) to the sequence of proteins that are shown to be lethal in mouse knockouts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_mouse So, these are damaging changes to proteins that are necessary for life. I called them putative because we have not yet validated them. In the second part of aim 1 of our grant http://cris.nifa.usda.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10125/crisassist.txt we will genotype 10,000 heifers to identify the frequency of these putative lethal mutations. If we never see the mutation as a homozygous (the animal inherited two copies) then, it is a recessive lethal.

Furthermore, you do not need to observe a dead calf to confirm a lethal mutation. Most lethal mutations cause an abortion early in the pregnancy. Thus, the fetus has died long before 9 months.

Using your previous math, 150 bulls * 6.9 mutations per bull would give us 1,035 lethal mutations. I doubt we will see that many, because many of these may be shared among bulls.
 
HerefordGuy said:
I work with Jerry Taylor, Bob Schnabel, and Dave Patterson at the University of Missouri. I am actually part of the research. Dr. Taylor works quite frequently with Dr. Beever. In fact we (Mizzou) did the 50K genotyping that lead to the hypotrichosis test in Herefords. And Dr. Beever is not the only person who identifies mutations responsible for genetic defects. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0015116

The 76 mutations cause a major change (damaging amino acid substitution, protein truncation, disrupted splice site, etc) to the sequence of proteins that are shown to be lethal in mouse knockouts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_mouse So, these are damaging changes to proteins that are necessary for life. I called them putative because we have not yet validated them. In the second part of aim 1 of our grant http://cris.nifa.usda.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/10125/crisassist.txt we will genotype 10,000 heifers to identify the frequency of these putative lethal mutations. If we never see the mutation as a homozygous (the animal inherited two copies) then, it is a recessive lethal.

Furthermore, you do not need to observe a dead calf to confirm a lethal mutation. Most lethal mutations cause an abortion early in the pregnancy. Thus, the fetus has died long before 9 months.

Using your previous math, 150 bulls * 6.9 mutations per bull would give us 1,035 lethal mutations. I doubt we will see that many, because many of these may be shared among bulls.

How many of the heifers are related to the 11 reference sires? The defects/mutations seem to follow family lines. Can you share the 11 sires that have been sequenced?
 
Can't share the identities of the sires. All of the sires will be anonymous when the data is published. We have tried to identify the most influential sires for each breed, so each heifer will likely be related to many of the sires, either as progeny, grand progeny, or cousins.

Though I did not explicitly state it, the BEEF Cow-Calf article was based on our current data and our current knowledge. I cited Doran Garrick's presentation and Jerry Taylor's research to demonstrate that my thoughts were not some crazy idea, but rather our current understanding of the situation.
 
the key word is recessive. according to U of Mizzou there are 70+ possible defects. If some of these guys that think their commercial or registered herds are defect free would test all their cows for everything possible they would be amazed at the results.
 

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