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Animal ID isn"t the answer

Jinglebob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Messages
5,962
Location
Western South Dakota
Animal ID isn't answer

By Kenny Fox, chairman of the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association Animal ID Committee.

BELVIDERE - Members of the South Dakota Stockgrowers Association are ranchers who make a living raising cattle - true experts in cattle-raising. We are circulating a petition to determine how many people statewide and nationwide oppose a mandatory national animal ID program, as our members do.

Brand inspection areas such as western South Dakota are not only capable of tracking our cattle, we are doing it already. Every day. We record movement of cattle every time they change ownership or travel outside of western South Dakota.
In fact, when Canada discovered their very first case of BSE in May 2003, the Montana Department of Livestock contacted our chief brand inspector about some bulls that had been sold from Canada into Montana and subsequently into South Dakota. The bulls were half-brothers to the infected cow. Within about three hours, our chief brand inspector called the Montana department back with full details about the movements of each bull, all the way to slaughter. And Judy Martz, then the governor of Montana, commended him with a personal letter of thanks. Brand inspection works.
Tattoos are another nearly permanent and very low-cost method of identification. Several states still require brucellosis tags and tattoos on breeding stock, and while South Dakota is not one of those states, a good share of S.D. producers bangs vaccinate, tag and tattoo their breeding herd - yet another tracking system already in existence.
Producers from Colorado, Florida, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and all over South Dakota are now circulating petitions. Obviously they, too, believe the proposed ID program brings with it more costs than benefits. Ranchers aren't asking for more animal ID.
Sticking a tag in an animal's ear does not provide any sort of assurance of quality or animal health. Industry integrity and profitability all the way from the producer to the retailer, is the only thing that can provide that assurance. Contrary to the boasts made by supporters of the NAIS, tags can be cut out, lost and tampered with. A brand is forever.
I've yet to hear Japan request that the U.S. implement mandatory animal ID. Obviously, USDA has now tainted our credibility with Japan by allowing shipment of bone-in beef. This had absolutely nothing to do with the presence or absence of a tag, and everything to do with a lackadaisical agency that is a watchdog only when it's convenient and politically acceptable to the multinational food companies. Foreign countries aren't asking for animal ID, they want honest communication and respect.
Our organization has yet to talk to a U.S. consumer who would feel safer buying beef from a steer that lived its life with a computer chip in its ear. The proposed national animal ID program is not intended to provide one shred of information to consumers. No farm, state or country of origin labeling information. Nothing. Consumers would still be unable to identify whether the hamburger in their grocery cart bearing that same old USDA stamp is a product of Canada, Japan, Mexico, Ecuador or all of the above. Consumers aren't asking for animal ID.
Consumers have, however, teamed up with grassroots producers to lobby diligently for mandatory country of origin labeling, yet have been out-dollared and out-maneuvered by the meat-packing giants and their pocket politicians.
The only supporters of an unnecessary mandatory animal identification program are the companies who stand to sell billions of dollars worth of equipment, USDA who wants a feather in their cap by deceptively claiming that they are somehow "managing disease" and the large meatpacking and retailing companies who want ever more information about the location, age and number of livestock worldwide to give them more control over the market and to further integrate the cattle and beef industries.
The meat and grocery industries, while lobbying for free trade agreements with developing countries who grow food in unsafe and unsanitary conditions, favor a burdensome mandatory animal ID program for U.S. producers, but do not acknowledge the need to differentiate or even track imported food or livestock. It's not only a backward approach, it gives consumers a false sense of security while masking the real potential for disease problems - foreign food and animals raised in substandard conditions.
Until about three years ago, our federal government's policy was to prevent the introduction of foreign animal diseases. A very good policy with a remarkable record of success. Now USDA has done a 180 and decided that borders can be eliminated, if we can just "track animals" and "manage disease." If the USDA would protect our borders from unsafe imports of beef and cattle, the threat of a disease outbreak would substantially decline and we could once again prevent disease instead of managing it.
 
An example of how far the US is behind:

1. AGRICULTURE MINISTERS DISCUSS PATH FORWARD FOR AGRICULTURE IN CANADA

Ministers unanimously supported moving quickly on a National Agriculture and
Agri- Food Traceability System beginning with livestock. It should be built
on a partnership of governments and industry. Ministers directed that
further consultations with industry take place with a view to bringing
forward concrete recommendations on a national system at their next meeting

2. Can-Trace

Version 2.0 of the Canadian Food Traceability Data Standard has been posted.

3. Sheep ID trials in Quebec

4. Argentina accelerates cattle traceability

Argentine agriculture minister Miguel Campos has signed a resolution to jump
start the National System for Cattle Identification and put all Argentine
producers on notice that they must start entering data by the end of this
year.

5. Compromise reached on Cartagena Protocol requirements

Parties to the Cartagena Biosafety Protocol meeting in Curitiba, Brazil
reached a last-minute compromise March 17 on documentation requirements for
international shipments of commodities containing bioengineered living
modified organisms

6. EU ministers set to adopt geographical indication rules

The EU Council of Ministers is set to adopt on March 20 two regulations
updating rules on geographical indications to bring the bloc into line with
a World Trade Organization ruling.

7. China to monitor bird flu with RFID

An RFID tracking system designed to slow the spread of avian flu will be
tested this month by China's poultry industry, currently facing flagging
demand and low prices following several outbreaks of the disease in
different provinces. The technology, developed by Canadian company Smart-tek
Communications, was unveiled to government, academic and industry experts at
a conference in Beijing last week.

8. 2006 Canadian RFID Conference. April 4-5. Markham, Ontario

9. WTO case on traceability and labeling urged by U.S. groups

The World Trade Organization's preliminary ruling last month that the
European Union had unfairly delayed approval of bioengineered crop varieties
prompted calls for a second WTO case against the EU's traceability and
labeling regime for biotech foods.

Source CFIA
 
Bill said:
An example of how far the US is behind:

1. AGRICULTURE MINISTERS DISCUSS PATH FORWARD FOR AGRICULTURE IN CANADA

Ministers unanimously supported moving quickly on a National Agriculture and
Agri- Food Traceability System beginning with livestock. It should be built
on a partnership of governments and industry. Ministers directed that
further consultations with industry take place with a view to bringing
forward concrete recommendations on a national system at their next meeting

2. Can-Trace

Version 2.0 of the Canadian Food Traceability Data Standard has been posted.

3. Sheep ID trials in Quebec

4. Argentina accelerates cattle traceability

Argentine agriculture minister Miguel Campos has signed a resolution to jump
start the National System for Cattle Identification and put all Argentine
producers on notice that they must start entering data by the end of this
year.

5. Compromise reached on Cartagena Protocol requirements

Parties to the Cartagena Biosafety Protocol meeting in Curitiba, Brazil
reached a last-minute compromise March 17 on documentation requirements for
international shipments of commodities containing bioengineered living
modified organisms

6. EU ministers set to adopt geographical indication rules

The EU Council of Ministers is set to adopt on March 20 two regulations
updating rules on geographical indications to bring the bloc into line with
a World Trade Organization ruling.

7. China to monitor bird flu with RFID

An RFID tracking system designed to slow the spread of avian flu will be
tested this month by China's poultry industry, currently facing flagging
demand and low prices following several outbreaks of the disease in
different provinces. The technology, developed by Canadian company Smart-tek
Communications, was unveiled to government, academic and industry experts at
a conference in Beijing last week.

8. 2006 Canadian RFID Conference. April 4-5. Markham, Ontario

9. WTO case on traceability and labeling urged by U.S. groups

The World Trade Organization's preliminary ruling last month that the
European Union had unfairly delayed approval of bioengineered crop varieties
prompted calls for a second WTO case against the EU's traceability and
labeling regime for biotech foods.

Source CFIA

We are behind in industry concentration so far too, Bill.
 
Jinglebob,

Thanks for posting this. First let me start by saying that I consider Kenny Fox a friend and he is a neighbor. I asked him to take my position as a director for the SDSGA. I have nothing but good to say about Kenny Fox as a person and I really like his whole family.

With that said, Kenny Fox and I couldn't be more polarized from the standpoint of beef issues which I hope never detracts from our friendship.

I'm glad you posted this article because I was going to address the contradictions in this letter.

First let me start out by saying, that I do not support Mandatory ID. I totally realize the value of source verification and traceback but I believe it is better run by the free markets than the government.

Where Kenny Fox and I differ on this issue, is in the value of "M"ID and the value of "M"COOL.


Kenny Fox: "Brand inspection areas such as western South Dakota are not only capable of tracking our cattle, we are doing it already. Every day. We record movement of cattle every time they change ownership or travel outside of western South Dakota."

My question is, since we already have the ability to track our cattle with brands, where is the justification in fearing "M"ID????

How can Kenny be opposed to something if we are already doing it with brand inspection?

That's a direct contradiction.


Kenny Fox: "In fact, when Canada discovered their very first case of BSE in May 2003, the Montana Department of Livestock contacted our chief brand inspector about some bulls that had been sold from Canada into Montana and subsequently into South Dakota. The bulls were half-brothers to the infected cow. Within about three hours, our chief brand inspector called the Montana department back with full details about the movements of each bull, all the way to slaughter."

In that paragraph he makes the case for traceback and source verification and attests to it's value.

Another direct contradiction!


Kenny Fox: "Tattoos are another nearly permanent and very low-cost method of identification. Several states still require brucellosis tags and tattoos on breeding stock, and while South Dakota is not one of those states, a good share of S.D. producers bangs vaccinate, tag and tattoo their breeding herd - yet another tracking system already in existence."

Again, if we already have bangs tags as a form identification and traceback, why would anyone fear a traceback system??

Obviously both brands and brucellosis tags could be incorporated into a CONSUMER DRIVEN traceback and source verification system.


Kenny Fox: "Producers from Colorado, Florida, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and all over South Dakota are now circulating petitions. Obviously they, too, believe the proposed ID program brings with it more costs than benefits. Ranchers aren't asking for more animal ID."

Ask Canada if the costs are worth the benefits.


Kenny Fox: "Sticking a tag in an animal's ear does not provide any sort of assurance of quality or animal health."

That's not the intent. The intent is to trace animal health problems and food safety concerns like BSE and Ecoli back to their source in order to quarantine the problem much like the Canadian example you gave above.


Kenny Fox: "Contrary to the boasts made by supporters of the NAIS, tags can be cut out, lost and tampered with. A brand is forever."

Precisely why brands could be part of a PRODUCER DRIVEN source verification traceback system. Like you said, it's already being done.


Kenny Fox: "I've yet to hear Japan request that the U.S. implement mandatory animal ID. Obviously, USDA has now tainted our credibility with Japan by allowing shipment of bone-in beef. This had absolutely nothing to do with the presence or absence of a tag, and everything to do with a lackadaisical agency that is a watchdog only when it's convenient and politically acceptable to the multinational food companies. Foreign countries aren't asking for animal ID, they want honest communication and respect."

It wasn't USDA that tainted our credibility, it was the small packing company that shipped bone in beef to Japan. USDA was not responsible for the action, the "SMALL" packer was.

The purpose of an ID system is to track animal health and food safety problems, not prevent shipments of foreign banned products.


Kenny Fox: "Our organization has yet to talk to a U.S. consumer who would feel safer buying beef from a steer that lived its life with a computer chip in its ear."

That's not the point. The point is, if you have a food safety problem like BSE and Ecoli you can trace that problem back to it's source and corral it and maintain consumer confidence in your product. If you can't trace the problem, you lose consumer confidence because there is no way to know how widespread the problem is.


Kenny Fox: "Consumers aren't asking for animal ID."

Consumers may not be asking for a government run mandatory ID program but consumers are paying more for source verified beef. That is not even questionable. Significant market premiums are already being realized for source verified cattle by Angus Gene Net and US Premium Beef. If consumers weren't willing to pay more for source verified beef, these premiums would not be offered.


Kenny Fox: "Consumers have, however, teamed up with grassroots producers to lobby diligently for mandatory country of origin labeling, yet have been out-dollared and out-maneuvered by the meat-packing giants and their pocket politicians."

Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling is an absolute joke. This law exempted 75% of the imported beef into this country with the food service exemption making a novelty item out of the 5% imported beef that remains. "M"COOL is all foam and no beer. The law is not enforceable because it prohibited "M"ID. The law is all cost and no benefit. Consumers aren't asking for Country of Origin Labeling, they are asking for safe food. If "M"COOL was important to consumers, why has Mike Callicrate's "born, raised, and processed in the U.S." branded beef products not realized a profit? If buying US products is more important to consumers than price, why is Walmart doing so well with products of China?

Consumers want value. They want beef that is healthy and tastes good at an affordable price relative to competing meats. If country of Origin Labeling was so important to consumers, retailers would already be providing that.

Doesn't it seem a bit hypocritical to suggest that consumers should have the right to know where their beef comes from but not EXACTLY where that beef came from?


Kenny Fox: "The only supporters of an unnecessary mandatory animal identification program are the companies who stand to sell billions of dollars worth of equipment, USDA who wants a feather in their cap by deceptively claiming that they are somehow "managing disease" and the large meatpacking and retailing companies who want ever more information about the location, age and number of livestock worldwide to give them more control over the market and to further integrate the cattle and beef industries."

Talk to Canadian producers and ask them about the value of a traceback system for disease monitoring.

If Packers are gaining more control of the markets, why did we just come off the highest feeder cattle prices ever recorded? What was different Ken? Were packers less concentrated? Was there less consumer demand? Couldn't be imports because prices were higher this year with an opened Canadian border than a closed Canadian border last year?

So what's the reasons for higher cattle prices Kenny?

I'll tell you what it was, CONSUMER DEMAND!

There is not one more dime that can enter this industry unless it comes from the consumers. If consumers see less value in beef relative to pork and poultry, producers will see lower prices and there is nothing you can do to change that beyond increasing consumer demand.

Producer prices come from OUTSIDE this industry, not from within. Retail beef prices drive live cattle prices and in turn, live cattle price drive feeder cattle prices. It's never been any different despite all of the packer blaming conspiracy theories.

Which leads me to another question Kenny, if R-CALF is right, why have they yet to win a court decision? Do you honestly believe that this many court systems are wrong and Johnny, Dennis, and Herman are right?

Let me repeat that, R-CALF HAS YET TO WIN A SINGLE COURT DECISION IN THEIR FAVOR. NOT ONE!


Kenny Fox: "The meat and grocery industries, while lobbying for free trade agreements with developing countries who grow food in unsafe and unsanitary conditions, favor a burdensome mandatory animal ID program for U.S. producers, but do not acknowledge the need to differentiate or even track imported food or livestock. It's not only a backward approach, it gives consumers a false sense of security while masking the real potential for disease problems - foreign food and animals raised in substandard conditions."

Most of our imports come from Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. Interesting, Canada has a traceback system. Interesting that Japan is now importing beef from Australia due to their confidence in Australian beef.

The foreign food and animals that are raised in substandard conditions are from South of our border. Kenny, tell me what percentage of our imports are from Mexico, Central America, and South America?

Do you know? If you don't you need to find out so we can put this into proper perspective.


Kenny Fox: "Until about three years ago, our federal government's policy was to prevent the introduction of foreign animal diseases. A very good policy with a remarkable record of success. Now USDA has done a 180 and decided that borders can be eliminated, if we can just "track animals" and "manage disease." If the USDA would protect our borders from unsafe imports of beef and cattle, the threat of a disease outbreak would substantially decline and we could once again prevent disease instead of managing it."

I suppose that would explain our two native cases of BSE.

Kenny, if you are reading this which I hope you do, ask yourself this one question. What would R-CALF have done to consumer confidence in beef if the media had taken R-CALF's position against Canadian beef and applied it to our two domestic cases of BSE?

R-CALF said Canadian beef was "high risk" and "contaminated" due to BSE in their native herd. What happened to that position when we had a native case of BSE???

R-CALF's BSE "fear mongering" to stop Canadian imports was absolutely the most self defeating, short sighted political position I have ever seen in my life. Luckily for the American Cattle Producer, USDA and NCBA were there to tell the media the truth about BSE while R-CALF was lying about the affects of BSE to stop Canadian imports and for what? Did R-CALF actually think Canadian beef would disappear off the world market? Canada would have eventually absorbed that same portion of our export markets and R-CALF would have never known the difference.

Make no mistake, R-CALF is not the voice of the U.S. cattle producer. R-CALF is the voice of the segment of our industry who needs someone or something to blame for lower cattle prices.

Again, I am not in favor of "M"ID to be run by the federal government but the value of source verification is undeniable.


~SH~
 
If producers own and control the data on the ID system, they may have the ability to gain the rewards from such a system. If the packers can own or control the data in the system, they will capture all of the gains that animal ID brings and not the people who are putting up the costs for the ID, the producers.

It is just like the checkoff argument.

SH wants manditory ID for cattle but not Manditory Country of OriginLabeling laws. What a hypocrite. Everything for packers controlling more information for their benefit without avenues for the producers in getting the gains through real competitition (think of Creekstone).
 
Allow me to show you readers what a complete idiot Conman is. I can't illustrate it any better than this.

From the above post at the beginning(bolded):
SH:"First let me start out by saying, that I do not support Mandatory ID. I totally realize the value of source verification and traceback but I believe it is better run by the free markets than the government."

The last sentence in my post above:
SH: "Again, I am not in favor of "M"ID to be run by the federal government but the value of source verification is undeniable."


Lame brain Conman's response:
"SH wants manditory ID for cattle but not Manditory Country of OriginLabeling laws."

Conman is such an idiot he can't even comprehend what he's reading.


~SH~
 
Hey guys,the ScoringAg database provides both country of origin and M'ID plus traceback for every country in the world within seconds.
https://www.scoringag.com/Ag.cfm?sfa=main.public_agri_main
 
~SH~ said:
Allow me to show you readers what a complete idiot Conman is. I can't illustrate it any better than this.

From the above post at the beginning(bolded):
SH:"First let me start out by saying, that I do not support Mandatory ID. I totally realize the value of source verification and traceback but I believe it is better run by the free markets than the government."

The last sentence in my post above:
SH: "Again, I am not in favor of "M"ID to be run by the federal government but the value of source verification is undeniable."


Lame brain Conman's response:
"SH wants manditory ID for cattle but not Manditory Country of OriginLabeling laws."

Conman is such an idiot he can't even comprehend what he's reading.


~SH~

SH, you argue that we don't need a manditory ID and then you argue for the Canadian system:

SH:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:58 am Post subject:
Jinglebob,

Thanks for posting this. First let me start by saying that I consider Kenny Fox a friend and he is a neighbor. I asked him to take my position as a director for the SDSGA. I have nothing but good to say about Kenny Fox as a person and I really like his whole family.

With that said, Kenny Fox and I couldn't be more polarized from the standpoint of beef issues which I hope never detracts from our friendship.

I'm glad you posted this article because I was going to address the contradictions in this letter.

First let me start out by saying, that I do not support Mandatory ID. I totally realize the value of source verification and traceback but I believe it is better run by the free markets than the government.

Where Kenny Fox and I differ on this issue, is in the value of "M"ID and the value of "M"COOL.


Quote:
Kenny Fox: "Brand inspection areas such as western South Dakota are not only capable of tracking our cattle, we are doing it already. Every day. We record movement of cattle every time they change ownership or travel outside of western South Dakota."


My question is, since we already have the ability to track our cattle with brands, where is the justification in fearing "M"ID????

How can Kenny be opposed to something if we are already doing it with brand inspection?

That's a direct contradiction.


Quote:
Kenny Fox: "In fact, when Canada discovered their very first case of BSE in May 2003, the Montana Department of Livestock contacted our chief brand inspector about some bulls that had been sold from Canada into Montana and subsequently into South Dakota. The bulls were half-brothers to the infected cow. Within about three hours, our chief brand inspector called the Montana department back with full details about the movements of each bull, all the way to slaughter."


In that paragraph he makes the case for traceback and source verification and attests to it's value.

Another direct contradiction!


Quote:
Kenny Fox: "Tattoos are another nearly permanent and very low-cost method of identification. Several states still require brucellosis tags and tattoos on breeding stock, and while South Dakota is not one of those states, a good share of S.D. producers bangs vaccinate, tag and tattoo their breeding herd - yet another tracking system already in existence."


Again, if we already have bangs tags as a form identification and traceback, why would anyone fear a traceback system??

Obviously both brands and brucellosis tags could be incorporated into a CONSUMER DRIVEN traceback and source verification system.


Quote:
Kenny Fox: "Producers from Colorado, Florida, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and all over South Dakota are now circulating petitions. Obviously they, too, believe the proposed ID program brings with it more costs than benefits. Ranchers aren't asking for more animal ID."


Ask Canada if the costs are worth the benefits.

The Manditory ID is being pushed by the packers under the guise of benefits that just are not there. How is MID going to traceback e-coli? Do you even know where it comes from? Bangs, FM, and a lot of other diseases have already been erradicated in our part of the country. Do you have problems with these diseases in the Dakotas?

We have pretty much erradicated these diseases and make sure with vaccinations. It is similar to small pox. Small pox in humans has pretty much been erradicated in the U.S. but we can still vaccinate for it----and no one denies the right of physicians to test for small pox as the USDA has done on BSE.

This manditory ID is being passed off as producer pushed but politicians who are smart enough to know what is going on are putting the brakes to the national ID program in their states. This has happened in Texas and ithas happened in TN, and Mike posted reservations by some in AL. about a national ID system.

You are one of the biggest frauds on this site, parading around acting like you support producers when in fact you support policies that allow the packers to exert market power over producers. I will post an exerpt of why a national ID system can be exploited by cattle buyers under the guise of some other reason when I get the time.
 
Conman: "You are one of the biggest frauds on this site, parading around acting like you support producers when in fact you support policies that allow the packers to exert market power over producers."

Hahaha! Coming from the chronic liar that lies in virtually every post he makes. Everyone knows who the biggest fraud on this site is. It's you Conman hands down.

I understand the value in Source Verification. I oppose "MANDATORY" ID but not for the reasons Kenny mentions. I oppose "MANDATORY" ID because the free enterprise system can drive this better than the government. As I stated, consumers don't want Country of Origin Labeling, they want source verification. US Premium and Angus Gene Net are already paying significant premiums for source verified beef. Let the blamers receive commodity beef prices, I don't care.

You can't spin a contradiction here. I have clearly taken a position against "M"ID but totally support VOLUNTARY source verification. As stated above, Canada was able to trace BSE with their traceback system.

You just can't spin my position on this issue to your satisfaction can you?



~SH~
 
SH, "Hahaha! Coming from the chronic liar that lies in virtually every post he makes. Everyone knows who the biggest fraud on this site is. It's you Conman hands down."

Why not have a little poll on this board between you and Econ on credibility and see exactly what "everyone" knows?
 
Quote from Bob Price...Consumers are demanding to know where their beef comes from and the age of the animal when it was slaughtered.


Bob Price is president of North American Risk Management Services Inc. (NARMS) of Chicago, and has 27 years' experience in developing and executing risk management programs.
 
Thanks for the post Tommy! Like I said, consumers want source verification.


~SH~
 

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